Because, Canada

[DKTanker]

43 minutes ago, rmgill said:

How in the hell was it a riot? 

You've been all over the map on this. 

 

It was a riot because the state said it was a riot.  Statists are as statists do.  Tomorrow 2+2 might = 5, and it will if the state says it does.

[Ivanhoe]

55 minutes ago, rmgill said:

How in the hell was it a riot?

 

Bouncy castle = riot, obviously. Don't you know anything?

[R011]

1 hour ago, DKTanker said:

So the House of Commons just voted to make the temporary emergency permanent?  What will the Senate's rubber stamp mean for this Grate Sight? 

No and nothing. 

The vote just confirmed the imposition of the act with its thirty day expiry.

[rmgill]

Substitute  Orwell's hobnailed shoe stomping on a face forever for a Canadian RCMP steel shod hoof stomping on an elderly woman forever. 

[rmgill]

Important points made. 

The lack of actual rioting and the Ottawa police stating that police are NOT able to guarantee the safety of media is odd. The police are the ONLY ones with clubs and whom are attacking people.. This is third world totalitarian state level aggression. This is borne out by the protestors who merely ridicule the CBC media, while the police attack media and anyone else. 

Claims of harassment? They're crap. The police are assaulting people. 

 

Edited February 22, 2022 by rmgill

[BansheeOne]

20 hours ago, rmgill said:

Hang on. 

OWS was all over the US. They were here in Atlanta too. They were in fact in public parks and on public streets. They did marches that were not pre-prepped and planned with local police and they certainly made a great nuisance of themselves. Here in Atlanta too. Asserting that OWS "only occupied a privately owned park" is patently false. 

That it was ONLY the occupation of private property also rings as a bad thing to assert. They ONLY took over private property? We have a legal terms for that. 

The reason for requiring a permit to march in the streets, at least in the US is so that the local officials can effect a traffic plan to deal with the fallout and have the necessary officers on hand. We didn't just have the Dragon Con Parade down Peachtree street without any involvement of the police. 

I could comment on you once more moving the goalposts when I was specifically talking of the NYC OWS protests, or the obtuseness with which you act like I didn't make the exact same argument regarding the necessary regulation of protests in public spaces, or your ignorance of all the examples of differently-striped ideologues decrying alleged police brutality only against their own, and all the other dishonest debating techniques R011 noted when he put you on ignore (great job pissing off yet another poster who agreed with you 95 percent of the time by viciously attacking him over the last five percent BTW). But in view of the current global situation, I really have no mind for juvenile antifa rants right now; had plenty of that back at uni 25 years or so ago. Enjoy yourself.

[rmgill]

33 minutes ago, BansheeOne said:

I could comment on you once more moving the goalposts when I was specifically talking of the NYC OWS protests,.
 

Then clearly say so. It's not moving the goal posts when you're talking about the whole football pitch. Because there are, in the grand scheme TWO Goal Posts, if you want to get down to it.

Mind you, I clearly differentiate between specific events in for OWS in Atlanta vs other protests around the US. Which, was not as a rule peaceful. This is just the same as if you refer to the Black Lives Matter protest, you may be correct that their protests were peaceful in Buford Georgia, they were certainly NOT peaceful protests in the rest of the US or even in Atlanta for that matter. I had a front row seat for that rioting. 

33 minutes ago, BansheeOne said:

, or the obtuseness with which you act like I didn't make the exact same argument regarding the necessary regulation of protests in public spaces

The problem there is while it may not be clear the difference in Germany, there is a question of important distinctions vis a vis protest on private property in the US. One can walk around and see little brass markers on pavement outside of buildings that delineate the property lines and can be pointed to as a demarkation for where you may protest lawfully and in a disorganized fashion on the street vs stepping onto/into their property. I strongly suspect the same is the case in Canada given how we share the same common law basis for property rights. 

 

33 minutes ago, BansheeOne said:

, or your ignorance of all the examples of differently-striped ideologues decrying alleged police brutality only against their own

There's an important distinction to be made on brutality in what it is in response to. Police giving a bit of wood shampoo to  a subject who is a suspect in an armed robbery is night and day different than police fighting with a bunch of protestors who are doing nothing but passive, non violent protesting. 

More so, bringing up BLM protests about events that later turned out to be lies is quite frankly, not useful for comparisons with the Trucker Protest in Canada. 

33 minutes ago, BansheeOne said:

, and all the other dishonest debating techniques R011 noted

MY dishonest debating technique? Where am I making points that are factually false? I am being particular about particular things. If you think specificity is dishonest....I really can't help you. 

[DKTanker]

1 hour ago, rmgill said:

Claims of harassment? They're crap. The police are assaulting people. 

And cheering themselves on when they do.

[sunday]

9 minutes ago, rmgill said:

Then clearly say so. It's not moving the goal posts when you're talking about the whole football pitch. Because there are, in the grand scheme TWO Goal Posts, if you want to get down to it.

Mind you, I clearly differentiate between specific events in for OWS in Atlanta vs other protests around the US. Which, was not as a rule peaceful. This is just the same as if you refer to the Black Lives Matter protest, you may be correct that their protests were peaceful in Buford Georgia, they were certainly NOT peaceful protests in the rest of the US or even in Atlanta for that matter. I had a front row seat for that rioting. 

The problem there is while it may not be clear the difference in Germany, there is a question of important distinctions vis a vis protest on private property in the US. One can walk around and see little brass markers on pavement outside of buildings that delineate the property lines and can be pointed to as a demarkation for where you may protest lawfully and in a disorganized fashion on the street vs stepping onto/into their property. I strongly suspect the same is the case in Canada given how we share the same common law basis for property rights. 

 

There's an important distinction to be made on brutality in what it is in response to. Police giving a bit of wood shampoo to  a subject who is a suspect in an armed robbery is night and day different than police fighting with a bunch of protestors who are doing nothing but passive, non violent protesting. 

More so, bringing up BLM protests about events that later turned out to be lies is quite frankly, not useful for comparisons with the Trucker Protest in Canada. 

MY dishonest debating technique? Where am I making points that are factually false? I am being particular about particular things. If you think specificity is dishonest....I really can't help you. 

Wonder if you, Ryan, could find some similarities between the journalist talent at your corporation and the general German run of the mill one.

It should be nice to study a degree that makes you all but omniscient on all things animal, vegetal, and mineral, I guess.

[DKTanker]

Canadian fascist parliament member, Yaara Saks, stating "Honk Honk" means "Heil Hitler".  Irony is completely lost on fascists.
https://rumble.com/vvk7b8-insane-canadian-mp-honk-honk-means-heil-hitler.html

[rmgill]

1 minute ago, sunday said:

Wonder if you, Ryan, could find some similarities between the journalist talent at your corporation and the general German run of the mill one.

Having worked directly with people in the news room as well as some in college (one I worked with at the student news paper at Emory and later here). I can speak with some authority on the subject. I've had dinner with a bunch of these folks many times, lunch, many hours in the same room even working on opposite ends of the same story. I was here with these folks for 9/11 and the Olympic Park Bombing and much more mundane events. 

The general idea I have about folks who go into Journalism is that they are, as a rule, interesting in how things sound. They're writers, they find satisfaction in the art of the writing and the form of the words. There are exceptions like the former DI who was a writer and who had also been in Beijing of the Tienamen Square massacre for news coverage. Another was the old guy who was in MACV-SOG. A very quiet fellow and clearly very nearly physically broken by his time in service, sadly he went on leave for cancer and I never saw him again. 

Myself, I'm interested on if and why thing are or are not technically correct. Is the big picture good enough or is it a pale comparison or even grossly wrong about something?  To some degree it probably accounts for how much of an ass I seem to be at times when I'm quibbling over something that might have sounded right to someone but is technically wrong and in the larger scheme factually misleading. 
 

1 minute ago, sunday said:

It should be nice to study a degree that makes you all but omniscient on all things animal, vegetal, and mineral, I guess.

I've related this before but about 15 years ago, one of my co-workers was listening to our Tech Reporter talk about something relating to computing. I was a cube or so away so I could hear the report and David objecting to it loudly. 'That's wrong. What the heck?' Given we supported that unit directly, he emailed the guy to let him know. The dude responded that it sounded better the way he reported it and that the story was done so he wasn't going to correct it. 

It was an eye opener.  I've had numerous other interactions with our own reporter types over the years that support that the way things SOUND is more important than the facts on the ground. That there is a "narrative" is further supported by ideological positions. Even at FOX news you can routinely find them getting things wrong because, at heart, their writers are writers and not 

In some ways its not unlike how things in computer games aren't very correct or accurate but flow better for game purposes. Reporting is sort of the same thing with regards to how the narrative or story is told. 

 

[sunday]

Ah, this could be the source of that "Do not let reality contradict a good story", then.

[Stargrunt6]

When the far left says acab, what they really mean is "our cops are better."

[rmgill]

13 minutes ago, Stargrunt6 said:

When the far left says acab, what they really mean is "our cops are better."

No, I think it comes down to the same standards that they hold for language and anything else. They'll complain about doxing, but do it themselves. They'll complain about racist language, but do it themselves. They'll complain about police brutality, but condone it themselves. 

The trend is that anything they complain about is because it's a club to wield against their opponents but they don't actually care about the principle at all when it comes to standards. That's why Joe Rogan is the worst human ever for having used an unutterable word (for a white person) but Biden having said the same thing is not a big deal. 
 

Edited February 22, 2022 by rmgill

[rmgill]

1 hour ago, sunday said:

Ah, this could be the source of that "Do not let reality contradict a good story", then.

It is certainly in line with it. Hyperbole also sells. I remember one writer I worked with expressing contempt with the AP's report on the rivers of blood in centennial olympic park. Of course later on, I saw the same reporter express that the actions of Kermit Gosnell was directly attributable to the excessive regulations on abortions in Pennsylvania. Absurd on face, but it sounds great. 

[DB]

On 2/20/2022 at 11:15 PM, rmgill said:

DB, are you running out of material from the Nudge unit? 

My thoughts are my own, my facts are generally evidence based. Yours seem to come from a fringe position largely occupied by people who are dribbling case studies for DSM-5.

[Tim the Tank Nut]

are we really going to say that supporting the truckers is a fringe position?

If so, doesn't that really tell us what we need to know about where things are going?  After all the truckers had "unacceptable views".  I wonder what other views are "unacceptable" these days...

[DKTanker]

Tamara Lich denied bail.

https://thepostmillennial.com/breaking-freedom-convoy-organizer-tamara-lich-denied-bail

Quote

"There is a substantial risk you will continue these actions and will not abide by an order," the judge told Lich. "Your recent history in our city … satisfies me that you're detention is necessary for the safety and protection of the public.

Why bother with a trial?  Off to the camps with her.

Quote

The judge also said that Lich was being "guarded" and that her attitude was "almost to be obstructive."

Practicing "wrong think" is now a criminal offense.  Certainly protesting against oppression is a felony requiring internment.

Quote

 

Lich faces a charge of mischief, meaning she faces up to 10 years in prison.

"The accused is liable, upon conviction, a lengthy term of imprisonment," the judge said.

 

Just 10 years?  If the Judge already knows she is a perpetual threat to society, why merely a 10 year sentence?  To the stake with her.

[DKTanker]

4 minutes ago, Tim the Tank Nut said:

are we really going to say that supporting the truckers is a fringe position?

If so, doesn't that really tell us what we need to know about where things are going?  After all the truckers had "unacceptable views".  I wonder what other views are "unacceptable" these days...

Depends on what the Fascists says is wrong think for the day.  Certainly questioning The State is always a criminal offense.

[R011]

19 minutes ago, Tim the Tank Nut said:

are we really going to say that supporting the truckers is a fringe position?

If so, doesn't that really tell us what we need to know about where things are going?  After all the truckers had "unacceptable views".  I wonder what other views are "unacceptable" these days...

It's a fringe position here.  There's some debate whether the Emergencies Act was really needed, but little support for blockading a city centre for three weeks or blocking cross border trade.  There's not even much sympathy for their original core positions, especially as the restrictions are easing as scheduled before the protests.

[R011]

22 minutes ago, DKTanker said:

Tamara Lich denied bail.

https://thepostmillennial.com/breaking-freedom-convoy-organizer-tamara-lich-denied-bail

Why bother with a trial?  Off to the camps with her.

Practicing "wrong think" is now a criminal offense.  Certainly protesting against oppression is a felony requiring internment.

Just 10 years?  If the Judge already knows she is a perpetual threat to society, why merely a 10 year sentence?  To the stake with her.

No one ever gets the maximum save first degree murderers and then only because there's no discretion in the penalty.  It's very likely she'll end up with a fine and time served or a couple of months in a provincial jail.

The media here always reports the maximum sentence as if it's a possibility  because it's easier and more dramatic than guessing at a realistic one.

[rmgill]

Illogical. The positions aren't supported? Which is why the restrictions are being eased? 
 

If they, the border, vaccination and mask restrictions are not being eased because of the trucker's protest, the position is still within alignment and still a common ground position. Thats something that could be dealt with by agreeing with the truckers, meeting with them and satisfying their requests.
 

If the position of the government is to change because of the truckers then it is still in alignment. 

Trudeau had went to meet with and bend the knee for BLM. Was he bowing to pressure or agreeing with like minded folks? 

The conclusion is that people are to be told what to do and they are not to gainsay their betters. It matters not if the government policy change matches the request of a block of citizens. Their opinion does not matter. 

[rmgill]

4 minutes ago, R011 said:

No one ever gets the maximum save first degree murderers and then only because there's no discretion in the penalty.  It's very likely she'll end up with a fine and time served or a couple of months in a provincial jail.

Why deny bail? 

4 minutes ago, R011 said:

The media here always reports the maximum sentence as if it's a possibility  because it's easier and more dramatic than guessing at a realistic one.

You do know the diff between bail and sentences right? 

[rmgill]

51 minutes ago, DB said:

My thoughts are my own, my facts are generally evidence based. Yours seem to come from a fringe position largely occupied by people who are dribbling case studies for DSM-5.

Evidence from....?  Authority? 

[rmgill]

DB is your own country keeping all the mandates and restrictions in place?

 

If not, seems the fringe view is winning. 

Walking across campus thinking about this I'm having a really hard time understanding how the 'fringe position' that that the vaccine mandates, closure of society, lockdowns and other measures should end is a fringe position given that much of that was already being practiced by world leaders when you looked at them in detail behind closed doors AND with the ending of these lockdowns in the first place. 

And if it IS a fringe position that despite ALL of that the mandates/lockdowns and what not should continue when many of these nations and provinces are in fact relaxing those requirements. 

Frankly at this point, if your whole response is "it's a fringe positions" I think you've run out of arguments and all you've got left is bullshit. You can bitch and moan about disingenuous arguments but when you were resorting to genetic fallacies for a while, you're repeating the argle bargle we've been hearing for a while. 
 

Edited February 22, 2022 by rmgill