Because, Canada

[glenn239]

36 minutes ago, DKTanker said:

One fascist is about to take on another fascist in eastern Europe.  I can't be bothered.  Here on the NA continent we have one newly installed fascist and a blundering idiot that is turning green with envy.  I fear the fascism north of the St. Lawrence Seaway spilling over to the south much more than I do the same shit that has been going on in Europe for the last 2000 years or more.

Stuart's links Ukraine and the Ottawa protests in a way that Canadians do not.  The general sense up here is that we need to end the lockdowns and get things back to normal.  If not, things could continue to get worse, in that there is a wide ranging recognition that the Canadian public is getting restless and is concerned about inflation, etc.  Ukraine links into that thinking solely by way of its capacity to make things get worse in Canada. 

 

[R011]

1 hour ago, Stargrunt6 said:

"that man slaps his wife.

"at least he doesn't shoot her!"

More like:  That man stepped on my flower bed.  The other man broke into my house and raped my wife.

[R011]

2 hours ago, Stargrunt6 said:

It's no consolation to people whose accounts have been frozen, who have been beaten and pepper sprayed, and will continue to be persecuted even after conviction that at least they don't live in Russia.

Fun Fact: Putin and Trudeau both oppress journalists who  report the truth.  

People who don't break the law don't get punished by it.   People who resist police in the lawful execution of their duty risk arrest and injury.  And kicking political activists out of press conferences may not be a good idiea, but it is hardly oppression. 

As for "persecuted even after conviction", we haven't seen convictions yet let alone any unusual post conviction actions after sentence has been served.

[rmgill]

9 hours ago, BansheeOne said:

 Which is also a lot more consistent than some on the right who found no wrong with masked US feds dragging BLM protesters into unmarked vans.

You missed the part where the protests consisted of rioting, burning down buildings, attempting to kill people, including feds and attempting to burn down a court building for multiple nights on end. 

Every arrest by a cop isn't an incident of creeping fascism. What's the arrest predicated upon, does it have the RAS/PC for the arrest? Does it have legal grounds? What's the severity of the crime? 

Arsom and murder are capitol crimes. 
 

9 hours ago, BansheeOne said:

And BTW, with windows being smashed and pepper spray and stun grenades being used now, I'd call police action rather forceful indeed now, though that's a somewhat normal escalation when things drag out and boil down to a hard core.

But they're not even JUST doing that. You keep looking at individual bits of the larger critter and attesting that it's all normal. See just a normal tail, not a dragon, just a big gecko. 

[rmgill]

3 hours ago, R011 said:

You mean she was too stupid to get out of the way when the horses came by.

So, deliberately obtuse? 

3 hours ago, R011 said:

  Like the old left-wing activist in Buffalo who fell after being pushed out of the way when he tried to block police.

Arguably, that was a crime with some issues there. But again, you have different behaviors? I seem to recall that the BLM protest in buffalo was more than just protesting. 

 

[rmgill]

55 minutes ago, DKTanker said:

One fascist is about to take on another fascist in eastern Europe.  I can't be bothered.  Here on the NA continent we have one newly installed fascist and a blundering idiot that is turning green with envy.  I fear the fascism north of the St. Lawrence Seaway spilling over to the south much more than I do the same shit that has been going on in Europe for the last 2000 years or more.

And the UK can take care if it with it's large and healthy military. 

[rmgill]

15 minutes ago, R011 said:

More like:  That man stepped on my flower bed. 

Which is why he needs his truck broken, towed and impounded, his dog taken and killed, his bank account assets frozen and seized and himself thrown in jail for mischief. 

The proportional response is astonishing. 

 

Edited February 20, 2022 by rmgill

[BansheeOne]

8 minutes ago, R011 said:

And kicking political activists out of press conferences may not be a good idiea, but it is hardly oppression. 

What's this now - are we still talking about Trudeau here or did I miss someone bringing Trump's behavior towards the press into the debate?

3 minutes ago, rmgill said:

Every arrest by a cop isn't an incident of creeping fascism. What's the arrest predicated upon, does it have the RAS/PC for the arrest? Does it have legal grounds? What's the severity of the crime? 

Exactly. And as far as I can see, all arrests here happened in accordance with established Canadian law, irrespective of any emergency powers I'm being told.

Just because a gecko ate your pet spider it's not a dragon either. Or we might just all agree that Bush was really Hitler because, Iraq, Patriot Act, Guantanamo, waterboarding, etc.

[Tim Sielbeck]

48 minutes ago, R011 said:

People who don't break the law don't get punished by it. 

That's a false statement.

[DKTanker]

Tamara Lich of Alberta, arrested on Thursday and charged with "counselling mischief" remains in jail until at least Tuesday as The Crown considers denying bail.  Not that she could possibly pay any bail monies as The Crown has seen fit to freeze all of her and her husband's assets.  Indefinite confinement for what amounts to a misdemeanor.
The irony is completely lost upon the Canadian government who is increasing its oppressive dictates upon those that are protesting previous oppressive dictates.

[Stuart Galbraith]

2 hours ago, DKTanker said:

One fascist is about to take on another fascist in eastern Europe.  I can't be bothered.  Here on the NA continent we have one newly installed fascist and a blundering idiot that is turning green with envy.  I fear the fascism north of the St. Lawrence Seaway spilling over to the south much more than I do the same shit that has been going on in Europe for the last 2000 years or more.

Wait till the price of food and the price of oil and gas go through the roof.  Remember 1973? Most Americans were not worried about the Middle East, till they ran headfirst into it. Twice.

Instead, most of you here are seriously worried about a Fascist Canadian Prime Minister. Ok then, not much I can say about that. 

[DKTanker]

A Hollywood Canadian actress has a message, a plea, for the Boy who would be Dictator.

 

[DKTanker]

2 hours ago, Stuart Galbraith said:

Wait till the price of food and the price of oil and gas go through the roof.  Remember 1973? Most Americans were not worried about the Middle East, till they ran headfirst into it. Twice.

Oh my gawd, Henny Penny, the sky is about to fall.

[DKTanker]

[DB]

On 2/19/2022 at 6:57 PM, NickM said:

Dave, for years, I've felt that 'foreign papers' don't know 'Jack' about what's going on in the US, and by the same reasoning, I've concluded that US news reporters (whatever their political stripe) often don't know 'Jack' about conditions on the ground in other countries either (like the whole 'north western European cities with whole Islamisized no go zones, 'Asian/Pakistani/muslim' gangs sexually exploiting teens and that there are areas in Western Europe that un=hijabed wymmyn can walk at their own peril' stories we've gotten here from time to time). That being said, I often turn to this 'grate site(tm)' to get the 'straight story', though some folks don't want to talk about such 'Un PC matters' but others will say "It's not THAT bad yet, but it is an issue';  The whole thing is to sift the 'malarky' and the 'political sensitive' to get to the actual facts.

You're wasting your time if you expect to separate any signal from all the noise generated in this and several other topics I culd name.

There are some people in this forum who either have far too much time on their hands, or maybe they're a front for room's full of touch-typing monkeys? Pity I've never seen any Shakespeare, just a lot of hysterical, projection from the knowingly misinformed.

[R011]

4 hours ago, DKTanker said:

Tamara Lich of Alberta, arrested on Thursday and charged with "counselling mischief" remains in jail until at least Tuesday as The Crown considers denying bail.  Not that she could possibly pay any bail monies as The Crown has seen fit to freeze all of her and her husband's assets.  Indefinite confinement for what amounts to a misdemeanor.
The irony is completely lost upon the Canadian government who is increasing its oppressive dictates upon those that are protesting previous oppressive dictates.

You don't pay bail money up front in Ontario.  They just bill you or your surety for it if you don't show.

[rmgill]

1 hour ago, DB said:

You're wasting your time if you expect to separate any signal from all the noise generated in this and several other topics I culd name.

DB, are you running out of material from the Nudge unit? 

[rmgill]

 

[Skywalkre]

8 hours ago, Stargrunt6 said:

It's no consolation to people whose accounts have been frozen, who have been beaten and pepper sprayed, and will continue to be persecuted even after conviction that at least they don't live in Russia.

Fun Fact: Putin and Trudeau both oppress journalists who  report the truth.  

Posts like this ring hollow when the concern seems to stem more from sympathy with the protesters' agenda than with what's happening to them.  BansheeOne already highlighted similar tactics to break up OWS back in the day.  TN wasn't concerned back then.  The police here in the US had plenty of fucked up moments handling the protests back in '20 (protests, not riots) that many here bent over backwards in an attempt to justify (which makes using a MLK image all the more... interesting).

I'll be the first to jump on the bandwagon for police reform and training in handling these situations... but it has to be from principle rather than "oh, shit... now they're doing it to MY people".

[rmgill]

50 minutes ago, R011 said:

You don't pay bail money up front in Ontario.  They just bill you or your surety for it if you don't show.

And if you cannot pay because they've seized your assets, they know they've seized your assets. What then? 

If the new Social Credit system decides, what is your recourse? Sit in Jail until you've confessed your sins? 

[futon]

8 hours ago, R011 said:

You mean she was too stupid to get out of the way when the horses came by.  Like the old left-wing activist in Buffalo who fell after being pushed out of the way when he tried to block police.

It is unlikely that Canada is on track to becoming a facists state.  Ontario elections will come on June 2nd IIRC. Trudeau is playing a very dishonestly though, I got an impression there are some in his political camp that really believe in heavy government control and that rhetoric is a realm to cheat in order to achieve greater control.  I suspect Canada MSM is playing dishonestly about this too.

So its a question of whether the recent dots of government control is a trajectory of further dot stone hopping deeper in that direction or if it's just temporary stepping onto those dots with stepping out of those government control dots. The same concerns have been expressed for other countries on this site so I do not think this excessively targeting Canada.

Vaccine mandates is execessive government involvement and that is where the authority to break down the protests is hinged on it. Vaccine distribution was accelerated from standard procedure. Politics and money is mixed. Any people that want small government are going to be agitated and why shouldn't they.

For the horsemen, why need horses at all? Even HK police didn't use horses. There's a degree of state power flaunting by using horses maybe? Well, maybe too cold to use water pump jets like used in other places. Or maybe horses to make up for police number shortage. But the old lady was in the front see easy to identify, just standing and protesting within reason. If the police had any communicatoon function at all, maybe they could get the old lady arrested before sending in the horsemen? No matter how one looks at this, it was reckless and its also reckless to say otherwise.  And the importance of the video is because some and even you asserted that she drove her scooter into the horses so as to be extra ammuniton against those that want small government or the right to choose about getting vaccinated or free from having to prove that they got vaccinated with paperwork whereever they go.

[rmgill]

1 minute ago, Skywalkre said:

Posts like this ring hollow when the concern seems to stem more from sympathy with the protesters' agenda than with what's happening to them.  BansheeOne already highlighted similar tactics to break up OWS back in the day.  TN wasn't concerned back then. 

Banshee has been imprecise. He's specifically pointed to the Portland Anfita who were being snatched off the street with specific arrest orders for specific persons. 

OWS had a much wider scope of acceptable behaviors and New York was heavy handed as they always are. I know someone tear gassed at the 1990s Seattle WTO riots where the police were let off the chains like a bunch of rabid dogs. I was critical of that then and still am. 

As to OWS, in that instance things were breaking down and was bad enough that you had examplesof human waste sitting in buckets or poured into storm drains. None of those sorts of public health issues are manifest here. The Truckers brought their own port-a-johns and even setup reasonably proper food distribution/cooking and were visibly cleaning up after themselves. 

1 minute ago, Skywalkre said:

The police here in the US had plenty of fucked up moments handling the protests back in '20 (protests, not riots) that many here bent over backwards in an attempt to justify (which makes using a MLK image all the more... interesting).

In the case of civil disobedience, it was and traditionally has been you get arrested quietly, you go to processing, you get bailed out the same day or a day later. There's no freezing of assets, destruction of your vehicle, killing your dog and stripping you of your livelihood. 

Stop drawing poor comparisons. 

Comparing arrests for multiple violent felonies with disorderly conduct by blocking a street in a protest isn't the same bloody thing and you know it. Doing so is disingenuous. 

This isn't the same bloody thing and you bloody well know it. 

[Skywalkre]

9 minutes ago, rmgill said:

 

So... curious... are you for getting rid of horses across the board?  Or are you somehow going to justify (which is the norm around here) for what happened in the left image while being outraged by what happened in the right image?

[rmgill]

3 minutes ago, futon said:

For the horsemen, why need horses at all?

Horses are a great crowd control method. They are a lot of mass and can push a line of people back. They are however just like running a police motorcycle into someone, arguably a form of violent assault. So you better bloody well have justification for using the tactic. 

As with anything, police violence needs to be proportional to the crime one is stopping.

In the west we have a force continuum for types of force useful for types of force used by police or other civilians. 

It's unreasonable to use force that could be likely to cause death or serious injury in order to obtain compliance for simple trespass before active resistance has even manifested. Put another way, you don't shoot or run down a person who's just standing there and not a hazard or a threat to yourself or other people. 

It's entirely reasonable to run an active shooter down with a car as an adjunct to shooting them with a gun. 

[rmgill]

14 minutes ago, Skywalkre said:

So... curious... are you for getting rid of horses across the board?  Or are you somehow going to justify (which is the norm around here) for what happened in the left image while being outraged by what happened in the right image?

Can you explain how the incident on the US border is in any way comparable from a use of force perspective to the one on Ottawa? 

You do understand the background on the incident at the border right? OR are you still going on the narrative that he was using a whip? 

Footage, but note that Hackett is a urban hack and doesn't know what  a whip is. 

Twirling the end of a split rein is in no way close to the level of force that running someone down with a horse manifests. 

Edited February 20, 2022 by rmgill