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Posted
On 4/16/2021 at 6:41 PM, DB said:

UK guidance is that outdoor masking is appropriate if the 2m separation cannot be maintained, but masking up is not an excuse to get closer. Masking when outside is uncommon, though, and people are much worse at distancing when outdoors when there are crowds. This is why I haven't been to the local outdoor market for 8 months.

For the noted infection at 14m from a singer, this could be attributable to poor ventilation in the church. If the air isn't exchanged frequently enough, you will see an increase in concentration of small droplets suspended in the air. there's only so much you can do in some spaces - air conditioning if present may simply not be up to the task of moving enough air quickly enough.

There are good reasons for the guidance regarding shared enclosed spaces - for example it is recommended that you minimise your time in shops if you have to go there and that's in part because of the increased risk from "stagnant" air, as it were.

I don't know what it is like in your neck of the woods, but here few churches have really efficient air conditioning or forced ventilation in the way that you describe.  Under normal circumstances that would not be a problem.

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Posted

And that's why there are restrictions, Doug. Here in the UK air conditioning is present primarily in office buildings. Supermarkets will have it, too, but most churches are simply too old. But my point wasn't directly about specifics, just that the rules are the way they are for reasonable, well, reasons. It's not all arbitrary, much if not most of it has at least some thought behind it.

I think we also see some apparent absurdities because the government can't anticipate every corner case, and people will naturally be looking for those for points scoring purposes, whether those be political, selfish, "just for the lols" or as a deliberate attempt to undermine an enemy state, with most being under the "selfish" category.

The motives of the pastor involved in this particular Canadian case are not known to me, but I'm willing to accept the idea that he's courting publicity for selfish reasons, rather than being truly concerned for the salvation of his congregation. God seems unlikely to be the sort to give judgement based on whether you're within touching distance or not - or any large church would damn those in the rear pews, which seems a little unfair.

Posted (edited)
On 4/18/2021 at 1:26 PM, DougRichards said:

I don't know what it is like in your neck of the woods, but here few churches have really efficient air conditioning or forced ventilation in the way that you describe.  Under normal circumstances that would not be a problem.

As DB says, many of our churches are too old. Mine dates back to Norman times, so part of it is well over 900 years old. They would shit a brick if someone bolted an air conditioning system onto it.

I tell a lie, nearly 800 years. But you can see the problem.

http://wasleys.org.uk/eleanor/churches/england/cotswolds/gloucestershire/gloucestershire_one/beverston/index.html

Edited by Stuart Galbraith
Posted
33 minutes ago, Stuart Galbraith said:

As DB says, many of our churches are too old. Mine dates back to Norman times, so part of it is well over 900 years old. They would shit a brick if someone bolted an air conditioning system onto it.

I tell a lie, nearly 800 years. But you can see the problem.

http://wasleys.org.uk/eleanor/churches/england/cotswolds/gloucestershire/gloucestershire_one/beverston/index.html

The churches may be old, but there is a precedent.

The Old Bailey was rebuilt after the Great Fire of London without an actual back wall:  This was to not keep the weather out.

Wiki (yes I know)

The court originated as the sessions house of the Lord Mayor and Sheriffs of the City of London and of Middlesex. In addition to sessions court, the Old Bailey also held trials, similar to the traveling Courts of Assize held in other parts of England and Wales.[2] The original medieval court was first mentioned in 1585; it was next to the older Newgate Prison, and seems to have grown out of the endowment to improve the gaol and rooms for the sheriffs, made possible by a gift from Richard Whittington. It was destroyed in the Great Fire of London in 1666 and rebuilt in 1674, with the court open to the weather to prevent the spread of disease.

Posted (edited)

More evil police state henchmen cracking down on freedom after Free Palestine demonstration ordered to disband over violating mask and distancing rules in Berlin yesterday, and peaceful protesters self-defended with bottles and stones.

 

Edited by BansheeOne
Posted
1 hour ago, BansheeOne said:

peaceful freedom champions self-defended with bottles and stones of peace

FIFY

Not sure if it belongs inthe the Because, Canada thread, though.

Posted

Considering the source, it can be concluded that Germoney is planning to annex Canada.

If it results in an increase in supply of dark lagers in CONUS, I am all for it.

 

Posted
2 hours ago, Ssnake said:

FIFY

Not sure if it belongs inthe the Because, Canada thread, though.

Well we have our own idiots and they all look and act the same

https://citizenfreepress.com/breaking/pro-palestine-muslim-mob-attacks-elderly-jewish-man-in-canada-video/?fbclid=IwAR2DR8JmTIw3fwTEcbzh1bhbra2vej1HRQ8XL3e6HfMMAgHb2k7wdjZEfeE

Posted

Or in other words, Canadian mainstream media are as dumb as rocks - I.e. just like it tends to be elsewhere.

  • 3 weeks later...
Posted

While this could also be referenced to "Because the Catholic Church", seems to me our boy Justin is trying to offload the effects of historical Canadian assimilation policy on the former.

Quote

Date 04.06.2021

Canada's Trudeau slams Catholic Church over indigenous deaths

The Catholic Church is dragging its feet over apologizing and releasing key records on residential schools for indigenous children, according to Canada's Prime Minister Justin Trudeau.

The Vatican needs to "step up and take responsibility" after the remains of 215 Indigenous children were found in unmarked graves at a church-run boarding school in Canada, Prime Minister Justin Trudeau urged on Friday.

The country was left reeling by the discovery at the Kamloops Indian Residential School in British Columbia at the end of May.

Why is Trudeau criticizing the Catholic Church?

The church has remained silent on key issues, such as issuing an apology and asking for forgiveness, Trudeau told a news conference on Friday.

He also slammed religious leaders for dragging its feet on releasing its records on Church-run indigenous residential schools.

Despite having raised these issues during trip to the Vatican four years ago, "we're still seeing resistance from the Church," Trudeau said on Friday.

He also warned that the Canadian government could use "stronger measures" if Catholic officials fail to release documents, but he was "very hopeful that religious leaders will understand that this is something they need to participate in."

"As a Catholic, I am deeply disappointed by the position that the Catholic Church has taken now and over the past many years," Trudeau added.

Who has taken responsibility for the abuse?

Kamloops was one of more than 100 boarding schools run by the Canadian government and religious institutions from 1840 to 1996.

Their purpose was to "kill the Indian in the child" and assimilate Aboriginal and First Nations children into the dominant European colonialist culture.

Across Canada, more than 150,000 children were removed from their families to be reeducated.

Violence and sexual abuse were common and the children were forced to convert to Christianity and not allowed to speak their native languages. Up to 6,000 are said to have died.

The United, Presbyterian and Anglican churches already have apologized for their roles in the abuse, as has the Canadian government, which has offered compensation.

With the exception of the Catholic archbishop of Vancouver who apologized on Wednesday, the Roman Catholic Church has been notably silent.

The Vatican has not responded to requests for comment this week about demands for a formal apology from the pope.

In 2018, the Canadian Conference of Catholic Bishops announced that the pope could not personally apologize for the residential schools.

https://www.dw.com/en/canadas-trudeau-slams-catholic-church-over-indigenous-deaths/a-57785095

Posted

Pope Benedict made a "Expression of Sorrow" back in 2009.  The churches (more than just the RCC) that operated the residential schools for the federal government certainly did a bad job, but being unsupervised and badly underfunded didn't help.  Nor was it the churches that set the racist and destructive "kill the Indian inside" policy.

Trudeau is indeed trying to pass the buck about the Kamloops Residential School unmarked graves.

Posted

Given his dire warning that the government could use "stronger measures" if the Church doesn't open up, maybe he could set up public schools tasked with "killing the Catholic inside"? :D

Posted

So to be clear, were the schools decidedly worse than the conditions of the Indians at home on the prairie? Did they deliberately kill the children or was the subject of deaths something that happened due to the level of mortality prevalent in children at the time? 

I get that the children were taken from homes and that's a problem. But were the deaths deliberate or incidental to the situation? A raw number of kids who died is only part of the picture. How many folks died at such ages across the rest of Canada? 

Posted

I'm not sure that it's relevant whether the death rate of these children was better or worse than elsewhere - it's the apparently casual and careless way they were treated throughout their lives and even in death. Were children who lived with their parents buried in mass unmarked graves, unrecorded and apparently irrelevant?

Posted (edited)
11 hours ago, rmgill said:

So to be clear, were the schools decidedly worse than the conditions of the Indians at home on the prairie? Did they deliberately kill the children or was the subject of deaths something that happened due to the level of mortality prevalent in children at the time? 

I get that the children were taken from homes and that's a problem. But were the deaths deliberate or incidental to the situation? A raw number of kids who died is only part of the picture. How many folks died at such ages across the rest of Canada? 

Yes.  Much worse than home.  Malnutrition, overcrowding, bad sanitation, and shocking levels of abuse.  The deaths seem rarely to have been deliberate, but many more than would be normal in non-native or native communities due to the conditions above.

 

At a time when the death rate per hundred thousand for kids 5 to 15 was about fifty, the death rate for these kids was somewhere between two to four thousand.

Edited by R011
Posted
On 6/6/2021 at 8:36 AM, rmgill said:

So to be clear, were the schools decidedly worse than the conditions of the Indians at home on the prairie? Did they deliberately kill the children or was the subject of deaths something that happened due to the level of mortality prevalent in children at the time? 
 

The answer to all three of these questions is unknown.  We don't know how bad conditions got, we don't know whether there were deliberate killings, we don't know what the specific rate of mortality was.

Posted
15 hours ago, DB said:

Were children who lived with their parents buried in mass unmarked graves, unrecorded and apparently irrelevant?

No, they weren't. 

Posted

I certainly think that this is sufficient cause for questions to be asked about the standard of care, then, don't you?

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