R011 Posted April 12, 2021 Share Posted April 12, 2021 6 hours ago, Rick said: Both parties are being stupid with 51% the government, the remainder the church. I don't know the specifics, nor the specific laws but I am wondering if: 1. Allow the congregation in the church with masks and social distancing? 2. Allow attending said church in the parking lot with the parishioners remaining in their cars? 3. Sending one higher authority official to meet with the minister beforehand to discuss the situation and allow a compromise. As I understand it, both Options 1 and 2 were available with 3 a likely option at the minister's initiative. They could also go virtual in whole or in part. Other churches and religious institutions in Alberta have managed to adapt. The actual demonstration doesn't seem to have been quite as Levant described it. Most participants were orderly and well behaved. When some tried to tear down the fencing around the church, others in the crowd stopped them. Some idiots in the crowd also trespassed on neighbouring property and allegedly vandalized a car. I suspect those incidents were where any arrests came from. Otherwise, relations between police and protesters were innocuous. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BansheeOne Posted April 12, 2021 Share Posted April 12, 2021 The developing story popped up last week elsewhere, and this seems to have been the initial interaction. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ivanhoe Posted April 12, 2021 Share Posted April 12, 2021 It occurs to me that Canada has too many islands and not enough landlocked provinces. I propose a bit of horse-trading to address this. How about the US trades Minnesota for Vancouver Island? Y'all will gain hockey players and fishing lakes, the US will gain some primo farmland for certain recreational crops. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rmgill Posted April 12, 2021 Share Posted April 12, 2021 Seconded! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DKTanker Posted April 12, 2021 Share Posted April 12, 2021 22 hours ago, R011 said: How dare they make these people follow the same guidelines as everyone else follows, including other churches! What's wrong with letting them turn themselves into plague rats and infecting other people? As I understand it nobody in the congregation and nobody in the town have had covid. But yeah, off to the ovens with them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
R011 Posted April 13, 2021 Share Posted April 13, 2021 51 minutes ago, DKTanker said: As I understand it nobody in the congregation and nobody in the town have had covid. But yeah, off to the ovens with them. There are currently, 97 active cases in Parkland County https://www.alberta.ca/maps/covid-19-status-map.htm#list-of-active-cases-by-region As for comparing asking people to distance and mask to the Holocaust - hyperbole much? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tim Sielbeck Posted April 13, 2021 Share Posted April 13, 2021 With the way Canadian police are treating Canadian cutizens these days, not much at all. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
R011 Posted April 13, 2021 Share Posted April 13, 2021 32 minutes ago, Tim Sielbeck said: With the way Canadian police are treating Canadian cutizens these days, not much at all. Fell free to continue to talk bullshit about things you clearly know nothing about. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MiloMorai Posted April 13, 2021 Share Posted April 13, 2021 48 minutes ago, Tim Sielbeck said: With the way Canadian police are treating Canadian cutizens these days, not much at all. We haven't reached anywhere the level US cops have. Another dead US citizen by cop near Minneapolis. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rmgill Posted April 13, 2021 Share Posted April 13, 2021 2 hours ago, R011 said: There are currently, 97 active cases in Parkland County https://www.alberta.ca/maps/covid-19-status-map.htm#list-of-active-cases-by-region As for comparing asking people to distance and mask to the Holocaust - hyperbole much? To be clear, you don't need 50 cops to ASK people to distance and mask. That's a show of force to arrest and or FORCE people to do the state's bidding. Post vaccination, masking and distancing is superfluous. If it's not, then why weren't we social distancing for Polio, Diphtheria, and everything else folks tend to get vaccinated for? Nazi comparison are usually over wrought and hyperbolic. But when it comes to police showing up to keep people who aren't otherwise committing crimes from attending a church, en masse seems rather close to the mark. If not ON the target it's at least in the same range. I'm rather enamored of the Polish (Eastern Orthodox?) Priest who chased the cops and health inspector out of his church. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
R011 Posted April 13, 2021 Share Posted April 13, 2021 Seeing as some in the crowd did attemp to remove the fence around the church and apparently did trespass onto neighbouring property and vandalize stuff there, sixty cops to watch them wasn't excessive. Save for a few idiots, the crowd was peaceful and police left them alone. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rmgill Posted April 13, 2021 Share Posted April 13, 2021 2 hours ago, R011 said: Seeing as some in the crowd did attemp to remove the fence around the church and apparently did trespass onto neighbouring property and vandalize stuff there, sixty cops to watch them wasn't excessive. Save for a few idiots, the crowd was peaceful and police left them alone. At this point in the pandemic with the vaccination rates, is it remotely clear that it's reasonable to erect fencing to curtail folks who want to get back to normal and go to church? As to trespass and fencing and such...I don't suppose the police had permission to put the fence up in the first place from the property owner? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
R011 Posted April 13, 2021 Share Posted April 13, 2021 It's third wave at the moment. More people are getting it than at any time before. It is not close to being over. About 15% of people have got even one shot, and 2% have got two. This church had been closed by court order because of weeks of violations of prevention instructions. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BansheeOne Posted April 13, 2021 Share Posted April 13, 2021 (edited) 5 hours ago, rmgill said: Nazi comparison are usually over wrought and hyperbolic. But when it comes to police showing up to keep people who aren't otherwise committing crimes from attending a church, en masse seems rather close to the mark. If not ON the target it's at least in the same range. I'm rather enamored of the Polish (Eastern Orthodox?) Priest who chased the cops and health inspector out of his church. Oh, I see this guy is from a different church in Calgary rather than Edmonton. I thought this was the starting point of the escalation that led to the more recent face-off. My opinion is again colored by a habit of offenders with an immigration background here to call intervening cops Nazis in hope of shaming them out of doing their duty by triggering a national guilt complex or something. The reaction is the same, anyway: if you think things are so bad in the country you went to and authorities have gone full Nazi by trying to have a calm conversation about the law of the land with you, you can always go back where you came from. Though it could be noted that rules in Poland are basically the same (and with good reason, because they are currently racing Germany for total infection numbers with less than half the population, the local health system strained to the brink of collapse): Quote [...] RELIGIOUS CEREMONIES The number of people gathering in churches is limited – 1 person per 20 m2, maintaining a distance of no less than 1.5 m from others. Important! In churches and places of worship it is mandatory to cover your mouth and nose. Persons celebrating the event are exempt from this obligation. [...] https://www.gov.pl/web/coronavirus/temporary-limitations There are not many Orthodox Christians in 93 percent Catholic Poland BTW, and they, too, have priests rather than pastors; so I suspect this guy who frankly sounds like a pop-eyed asshole is from some minor Protestant denomination. And no overly due offense to you, Ryan, but you and others who think that this is even in the Nazi ballpark merely show again that you really haven't any clue whatsoever of what the term means. There's certainly a line where the application and execution of law becomes problematic, but from that church you can't even see it. Various groups who think the state is fascist just for not letting them flaunt the rules, from BLM activists to Antifa squatters to Islamist family patriarchs, would fully embrace your stance though. Edited April 13, 2021 by BansheeOne Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BansheeOne Posted April 13, 2021 Share Posted April 13, 2021 (edited) Aaand double tap. Edited April 13, 2021 by BansheeOne Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rick Posted April 13, 2021 Share Posted April 13, 2021 8 hours ago, R011 said: Fell free to continue to talk bullshit about things you clearly know nothing about. Well, the actions of some in Canadian government and "academia" did give rise to Jordan Peterson. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rick Posted April 13, 2021 Share Posted April 13, 2021 2 hours ago, BansheeOne said: Oh, I see this guy is from a different church in Calgary rather than Edmonton. I thought this was the starting point of the escalation that led to the more recent face-off. My opinion is again colored by a habit of offenders with an immigration background here to call intervening cops Nazis in hope of shaming them out of doing their duty by triggering a national guilt complex or something. The reaction is the same, anyway: if you think things are so bad in the country you went to and authorities have gone full Nazi by trying to have a calm conversation about the law of the land with you, you can always go back where you came from. Though it could be noted that rules in Poland are basically the same (and with good reason, because they are currently racing Germany for total infection numbers with less than half the population, the local health system strained to the brink of collapse): https://www.gov.pl/web/coronavirus/temporary-limitations There are not many Orthodox Christians in 93 percent Catholic Poland BTW, and they, too, have priests rather than pastors; so I suspect this guy who frankly sounds like a pop-eyed asshole is from some minor Protestant denomination. And no overly due offense to you, Ryan, but you and others who think that this is even in the Nazi ballpark merely show again that you really haven't any clue whatsoever of what the term means. There's certainly a line where the application and execution of law becomes problematic, but from that church you can't even see it. Various groups who think the state is fascist just for not letting them flaunt the rules, from BLM activists to Antifa squatters to Islamist family patriarchs, would fully embrace your stance though. Well stated as you have the habit of doing. But a question regarding "...Various groups who think the state is fascist just for not letting them flaunt the rules..." would depend what said rules are and perhaps more importantly how they are enforced. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rmgill Posted April 13, 2021 Share Posted April 13, 2021 (edited) We've already established that people can gather carefully, wear masks, stand apart and do things. We had weeks of rioting and protesting across the country where EVERYONE in power said that that was fine because racism was something that needed to be done. Canada had their own protests too it seems. I adamantly think that at this point if people are willing to gather to worship, despite risks, do so with masks and stand apart, the state has ZERO ground to stand on with how that all should happen. Freedom of religious gathering is not something to sneeze at. If the government was not willing to stop those protests with the same level of force, then they should not be willing to go and tell people they can't exceise their religious liberties. Pretty sure this one photo covers it. This was June of 2020. Where were the 50 cops needed to tell this crowd it could not gather? https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/canadian-floyd-anti-racism-rallies-1.5599792 But then Europe being no stranger to religious persecution for much of modern history, I suppose confining such aspects to just Nazis is overwrought. It's just the most recent example of such widespread persecution. Edited April 13, 2021 by rmgill Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rmgill Posted April 13, 2021 Share Posted April 13, 2021 As to the Polish pastor being orthodox or not, one thing about the new world is that one has large numbers of religious groups that moved here to the New World to escape various practices in Europe. See for example the Moravian Church and the Hussites who fled Europe. Mennonite too. Simply looking at statistics numbers in a European country like Poland to gauge if it's an orthodox church or not in the US is not ideal. For reference, there's a big population of ethnic Ukrainians in Canada who moved there pre-USSR and in fact speak an older, less russianified version of Ukranian. A buddy of mine is partially descended from this Ukranian stock. I would not be surprised if there as a larger than expected population of Ethnic Poles who worship in the pre-USSR way who left after the USSR annexed the portions of Poland. Central Europe's upheavals from the mid 19th century through to WWI or so pushed a lot of ethnic groups to the New World as well. I dated a girl who descended from a German family that escaped Germany as their patriarch had written too much poetry critical of the Kaiser. There's a small cluster of towns in central Texas that was settled by Germans. There's even a dialect of German in Texas from that large repository of Germans who moved there all at once. The script on the door was also what leads me to think Polish Orthodox. But with religious christian forms being as varied as recipes for various foods, who knows. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rmgill Posted April 13, 2021 Share Posted April 13, 2021 3 hours ago, Rick said: Well, the actions of some in Canadian government and "academia" did give rise to Jordan Peterson. Hail Lobster! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sunday Posted April 13, 2021 Share Posted April 13, 2021 1 hour ago, rmgill said: large repository of Germans who moved there all at once. Both Nimitz, and Eisenhower were German Texans. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wobbly Head Posted April 13, 2021 Share Posted April 13, 2021 8 hours ago, Rick said: Well, the actions of some in Canadian government and "academia" did give rise to Jordan Peterson. My daughters going to a Canadian University she was passing. So I told here to phrase all her essays as "White man bad" Her marks jumped up by 10-15 points since doing that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ivanhoe Posted April 13, 2021 Share Posted April 13, 2021 https://pjmedia.com/news-and-politics/bryan-preston/2021/04/08/what-is-china-really-up-to-on-canadian-soil-a-womans-brutal-murder-sheds-light-on-a-cult-and-a-disturbing-chinese-spy-network-n1438198 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
R011 Posted April 13, 2021 Share Posted April 13, 2021 6 hours ago, rmgill said: We've already established that people can gather carefully, wear masks, stand apart and do things. We had weeks of rioting and protesting across the country where EVERYONE in power said that that was fine because racism was something that needed to be done. Canada had their own protests too it seems. I adamantly think that at this point if people are willing to gather to worship, despite risks, do so with masks and stand apart, the state has ZERO ground to stand on with how that all should happen. Freedom of religious gathering is not something to sneeze at. If the government was not willing to stop those protests with the same level of force, then they should not be willing to go and tell people they can't exceise their religious liberties. Pretty sure this one photo covers it. This was June of 2020. Where were the 50 cops needed to tell this crowd it could not gather? https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/canadian-floyd-anti-racism-rallies-1.5599792 But then Europe being no stranger to religious persecution for much of modern history, I suppose confining such aspects to just Nazis is overwrought. It's just the most recent example of such widespread persecution. All the BLM protests here that I saw were very well attended by police. Unlike protests in the US, these protests were rarely accompanied by violence or destruction of property. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
R011 Posted April 13, 2021 Share Posted April 13, 2021 9 hours ago, Rick said: Well, the actions of some in Canadian government and "academia" did give rise to Jordan Peterson. Actions no different from ones in the US. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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