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Jmsdf US2 Flying Boat Accident


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The article below in English. (my translation). There's a video of it half way in the water in the link.

 

http://headlines.yahoo.co.jp/videonews/nnn?a=20150428-00000076-nnn-soci

 

On 28th, off the coast of Ashizurimisaki of Kouchi prefecture, an accident occurred where an engine fell off of a JMSDF floatplane during training. There was a crew of 19 and 4 suffered light injury.

 

Before 3:00 in the afternoon on the 28th, off from Ashizurimisaki a JMSDF US2 floatplane that belonged to Air Station Iwakuni dropped one engine while it was training in takeoffs and landings over sea. The 19 crew members escaped by lifeboat and were then rescued by a nearby small size tanker. The 19 crew members suffered nothing life threatening but 4 suffered light injury such as bruises.

 

The US2 floatplane has the ability to take off and land in bad weather conditions with waves at around 3 meters in height. Up until now, there has been no accident before.

 

The JMSDF is creating an investigation committee to investigate the cause of the accident.

 

 

It's to be seen if this will hurt its deal potential with India and else where.

Edited by JasonJ
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It entered service in 2007 making 8 years now. That's fairly long, at least for the first one. The other three came into service 1 by 1 in later years. Totaling only 4, but now back down to 3. And with an engine falling off, maybe the structure is not as sturdy as it should be, unless a major failure occurred during maintenance like not properly screwing back on the engine after service. But I hope you're right :)

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4 Built since 2008? Are they building them by hand with Japanese Living Treasure Aircraft mechanics trained by the Mitsubishi shop folks from WWII?

I figured they'd have built more by now to replace the PS/US-1s from the '60s and afterwards.

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For long range maritime patrol, the ability to actually land your maritime patrol craft on the water to effect rescues or other tasks has to be a useful capability. Obviously you're not going to be landing in a bad storm but some situations where an aircraft can actually pickup survivors rather than dropping survival packages is better.

Here's a US-1 going through training evolutions. Looks like they carry a rescue swimmer or two.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RKk7yf3KdJI

Thinkinga bout this, I'd like to see the USCG operate a few of these instead of Hercs.

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I have a very good book written by a USCG pilot that started on flying boats and then helo's. Helo's took over most of the duties of flying boats, mind you that semi-hopeless helo they have now might be a good argument to go back to them.

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Thinking about them, they seem ideal for the Philippine islands, Canada in the north during summer time too. Possibly even Europe and the Greek islands.

Such a craft can also work as a water bomber. I wonder how they'd do with an oil rig fire and a tank load of fire suppressant.

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Thinking about them, they seem ideal for the Philippine islands, Canada in the north during summer time too. Possibly even Europe and the Greek islands.

Such a craft can also work as a water bomber. I wonder how they'd do with an oil rig fire and a tank load of fire suppressant.

 

Yea, going by the Japanese wiki, there is interest to sell it as a civilian version mentioning roles such as fire fighting. It couldn't be sold as a civilian version because of laws restricting the sale of military equipment and the US2 originally being military. Another prohibitive reason is cost, it's very expensive. But it says that their investigating civilian versions now. There is a civilian passenger model that has accommodation for 38 passengers along with luggage space, restroom, etc.

 

For the military version, in addition to India, Indonesia has expressed interest in it this year in March.

Edited by JasonJ
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Problem with flying boats is that the average rescue is performed in seas that won't allow the landing/take-off of the aircraft. A rescue version of the Osprey is a better choice.

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This report says that the engine that fell off was on the right wing. It also says the balancing float on the right wing also ripped off.

https://www.chugoku-np.co.jp/local/news/article.php?comment_id=151129&comment_sub_id=0&category_id=256

 

This report says that midday on May 1st, the whole aircraft sank and is now 300 meters on the seafloor. The JMSDF is now considering working with a salvage company to raise the aircraft from the sea. According to Iwakuni Air Station, the floating aircraft was tied by rope to a barge in order to keep it from sinking but the rope gave way and thus, the aircraft sank.. It also says 5 people (not 4 in earlier reports) suffered light injury.

http://mainichi.jp/select/news/20150502k0000m040075000c.html

 

This report speculates that perhaps, the balancing float was hit by a something large like a whale during take off causing the right wing to sink into the water thus causing one of the engines to get blown off from going below the sea surface. Although that would mean that the engine that fell off would have to be the outer engine on the right wing. The report says this is speculation based on a lack of details.

http://bylines.news.yahoo.co.jp/kunisawamitsuhiro/20150501-00045336/

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  • 1 month later...

Operations for raising up the US-2 that had an accident has just been completed. The boat plane sank 300 meters down to the seabed. The main section raised up is the center fuselage which includes a flight recorder and will be analyzed. Raising operations started on June 14th and the raised parts have been unloaded to JMSDF Iwakuni Air Base on the 19th. The base has 5 US-2s and 2 US-1As but the US-2 have not been in operation since the accident. The raising operation cost 175,000,000 yen or about 1.5 million US$. There are plans to raise other parts, such as the front fuselage part, that are still left at the bottom of sea.

 

http://www.yomiuri.co.jp/national/20150620-OYT1T50092.html

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On July 9th, one US-2 resumed flight training, flying for 1 hour around the JMSDF Iwakuni base.

 

The cause of the earlier accident is still under investigation but on July 6th the base's Chief Staff Officer told reporters that no abnormalities have been found in the recovered fuselage and equipment. And that they will aim to restore crew skill.

 

4 US-2s are stationed at the base excluding the 1 that had the accident but for the time being, just one aircraft will be flown to improve the proficiency of the pilots. They will advance the training in stages from landing and takeoff at base, to in Iwakuni bay, and to the outer waters. The number of aircraft will be increased. It is hoped that missions can resume after about 5 months.

 

The accident occurred over water in Ashizurimisaki bay in Kouchi prefecture on April 28th. Of the 19 crew members, 5 sustained light injury. The JGSDF accident investigation committee is analyzing the recovered flight recorder and investigating the cause. So far, it is known that 1 of the 4 engines was submerged in a wave and the remaining 3 engines failed in getting the aircraft to take off.

http://sp.mainichi.jp/area/yamaguchi/news/20150710ddlk35040412000c.html (Japanese article) Edited by JasonJ
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Sounds like a wave hit the one engine, perhaps after the wing float ripped off?

Maybe. Like maybe the wing ripped off as the float being hit by something caused the wing to break.

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  • 4 months later...

Iwakuni base reported on November 13th the results of an investigation into the cause of the US-2 floatplane accident offshore of Kouchi Prefecture with 5 injured crew in April which was an error by the flight captain's piloting.

 

According to the base, the aircraft was submerged by a wave during take off and landing training at sea and one of the four engines stopped. With only 3 working engines, the pilot resumed to take off but the nose of the aircraft fell too far causing the whole aircraft to lose balance, crashing into the sea. Since there is no concrete procedure for taking off with only 3 engines and no clear standard for aborting takeoffs from water, the piloting manual will be reviewed.

http://www.yomiuri.co.jp/kyushu/news/20151114-OYS1T50009.html

Edited by JasonJ
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This December, India and Japan are expected to sign new defense agreements about the transfer of Japanese military tech to a India. It's being speculated that the US-2 floatplane negotiations might finally be concluded as part of the deal.

 

http://thediplomat.com/2015/11/japan-india-maritime-surveillance-aircraft-deal-may-come-before-the-new-year/

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India Navy plans to buy a first batch of six US-2s between 2017 and 2022. 6 more afterwards. ShinMaywa offers to build them in India. Still a long ways out but seems more of for sure that the purchase will eventually happen.

 

NEW DELHI (PTI): Japan's ShinMaywa Industries, the manufacturer of US-2 amphibious aircraft that India is eyeing, is betting big on the 'Make in India' initiative and has offered to set up a plant here to cater to international demands.

The move comes as the Navy plans to procure six such aircraft, under a government-to-government deal, between 2017 and 2022. Six are proposed to be bought in the next phase.

"The deal when inked will have a 30 per cent offset clause. Under this offset clause, ShinMaywa wants to set up a plant in India to cater to the global market since the demand for the aircraft is high," defence sources said.

The project has been in the works since 2011 but got a renewed push following Prime Minister Narendra Modi's visit to Japan in 2014 and a return trip by Japanese PM Shinzo Abe to New Delhi last December.

Sources said the deal could be a "government-to-government" exercise with the initial purchase being off-the-shelf.

"It is not simple to start manufacturing here. There has to be the necessary infrastructure and expertise," sources said.

If the deal goes through, it would be the first major export of Japanese defence item after it lifted decades-long self-imposed embargo on export of weapons.

The aircraft, which can land on choppy waters and have long-range civilian and military applications, are being sought by the Navy to monitor India's vast coastline, islands and for use in disaster relief.

Sources said that for the Indian Navy, the next priority project is the P-75 India, under which it plans to build six conventional submarines.

Also on priority are six nuclear-powered submarines for which the Cabinet Committee on Security had given the go ahead last February.

"P75I and nuclear submarines are the main focus right now besides the development of next indigenous aircraft carrier," sources said.

Amphibian aircraft can take off and land on both land and water. Seven of these aircraft are operated as Search and Rescue Amphibians by Japanese military.

Including its predecessor US-1, the amphibians have been dispatched over 900 times to rescue victims of maritime accidents.

A ShinMaywa representative said it has not tied up with any Indian firm for the project but has been in talks with several of them since 2011.

 

http://brahmand.com/news/Japan-offers-to-set-up-plant-in-India-for-US2-aircraft/14565/1/10.html

 

 

 

Also Japan's 2016 defense budget includes one US-2 aircraft. Maybe as a replacement for the one that had the accident.

http://www.mod.go.jp/j/yosan/2016/yosan.pdf

Edited by JasonJ
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  • 5 months later...

US-2 deal seems to have failed because of tech and price disagreements but another attempt seems to be on the way to sell to India at reduced cost.

 

 

 

NEW DELHI: Japan is negotiating the sale of Shinmaywa US-2 search and rescue aircraft with India not for any economic gain but because it considers India a friendly country, Tokyo has said amid reports that the deal for 12 amphibious aircraft had collapsed over pricing and technology transfer issues.

Top Japanese defense ministry sources told TOI in an exclusive interaction that they would look at reducing the price for the $ 1.6 billion aircraft deal ?as much as possible, in a fresh attempt to revive the negotiations.

The agreement, if it happens, will have a huge symbolic significance as a message to China about deepening defense and security cooperation between India and Japan, both victims of Chinese territorial aggression.

"Our position is that if this agreement happens, it will have a very favorable impact on our relations with India,'' said a Japanese defense ministry official.

"We understand there are some consultations underway in India over pricing. Pricing is determined by several factors. We are not doing this for economic gains but for our friendly relations with India and can look at reducing the price to the extent possible," added the official.

Japan is now hoping that there will be some progress in negotiations by the time PM Narendra Modi visits Tokyo later this year for the annual summit meet. Known for its short takeoff capability, the aircraft was meant to be deployed in the Andaman Nicobar Islands.

After Japan overturned its self-imposed 1967 ban on export of arms in 2014, India was expected to become the first country to purchase defense equipment from Japan with an agreement for US-2 aircraft. India and Japan had last year, after the summit meeting between Modi and his counterpart Shinzo Abe, signed an agreement for transfer of defense equipment and technology.

The 2 leaders had then said that they wanted to to deepen the bilateral defense relationship through two-way collaboration and technology cooperation, co-development and co-production. They had also expressed an intention to explore ``potential future projects on defense equipment and technology cooperation such as US-2 amphibian aircraft''.

The negotiations for the aircraft though were left in limbo with serious differences over pricing and India's demand that the aircraft come with state-of-the -art surveillance technology. Japanese officials, however, said there was no sensitive technology involved with the US-2 and wanted to treat it as a regular search and rescue seaplane only. India also wants co-production here as the government believes it can provide an impetus to the Make in India initiative.

According to Japanese defense ministry officials, manufacturing in India would be feasible only if the agreement comprised sale of a certain number of aircraft. ``If the number is too few, it would not be cost effective for India,'' said the official.

Maritime security is one of the key areas in Japan's cooperation with India. Japan, which is now participating regularly in India's Malabar exercise with the US, has encouraged India to speak up on issues related to South China Sea.

Japan is currently having to contend with an increasing assertive China in East China Sea where Chinese vessels continue to enter Japanese territorial waters in large numbers. While the Chinese coast guard have repeatedly ventured into Japan's contiguous zone and territorial seas near Senkaku (Chinese call it Diaoyu) islands, a Chinese navy vessel entered the contiguous zone for the first time in June this year. Japanese authorities see this as fresh escalation by China.

 

http://economictimes.indiatimes.com/news/defence/Japan-may-cut-price-to-ink-aircraft-deal-with-India/articleshow/54274427.cms

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  • 1 month later...

After reducing the price, US-2 deal back on track.

 

 

 

This week, India and Japan have reportedly moved closer toward concluding the first-ever bilateral defense deal between the two countries, unnamed Indian military officials told Defense News. An official with India’s Ministry of Defense (MOD) claims that New Delhi and Tokyo have agreed on a price for 12 ShinMaywa US-2i amphibious search-and-rescue/maritime surveillance aircraft for service in the Indian Navy.

“Japan has offered a price concession of more than 10 percent per aircraft from $133 million per aircraft to around $113 million, and the $1.35 billion government to government deal for US-2 amphibious aircraft is now ready for finalization,” the official told Defense News on the condition of anonymity. Last week, Japanese defense contractor ShinMaywa Industries said that the Indian MOD has still not made an official request for the aircraft.

So far the Indian MOD has only indicated that it would like to purchase two US-2i aircraft in fly-away condition, whereas the remaining ten (sources say that the Indian Navy requirement is pegged at 12-18 aircraft) should be built in India under Indian Prime Minister Narendra Modi’s ‘Make in India’ initiative. ShinMaywa, however, thinks that license-building ten US-2i is impracticable and too costly given the small number of aircraft.

Consequently, while settling on a price shows some progress, it is far from a done deal, as a spokesperson from Japan’s (MOD) told IHS Jane’s Defense Weekly in early October. “In order to move on to stages of discussion on specific conditions of co-operation [the Japan] Ministry of Defense hopes that the Indian side will establish its procurement policy as soon as possible.” Furthermore, “after India has determined its procurement policy we would like to flexibly respond to requests from India and make our co-operation concrete.”

As the The Diplomat summarized in 2015:

Negotiations for a US-2 sale to India began in Japan under the Democratic Party of Japan (DPJ) governments of Naoto Kan and Yoshihiko Noda. The amphibious aircraft sale issue was swiftly picked up by Abe’s government, which has sought to expand Japan’s role as a defense exporter in Asia. In April 2014, the Abe administration formally altered Japan’s decades-old self-imposed ban on selling arms, which effectively blocked Japanese firms from participating in global defense commerce. (For more background on Japan’s export policies, see here.)

In December 2015, Indian Prime Minister Narendra Modi and Japanese Prime Minister Shinzo Abe agreed to deepen defense ties between the two countries specifically naming the US-2i aircraft as a project for future cooperation. Despite that, in March 2016, a senior Japanese government official said that there is no plan for “selling or delivering” the US-2i maritime surveillance aircraft in the immediate future.

“Given its range of 4,500 kilometers (2,796 miles), the Indian Navy was tentatively planning to station the USi-2 aircraft off the Andaman and Nicobar Islands in the Bay of Bengal, from where they would have been able to conduct surveillance patrols of the eastern Indian Ocean region,” I explained elsewhere.

The export of search-and-rescue aircraft would be Japan’s first defense deal in its post-war history.

 

http://thediplomat.com/2016/10/india-japan-amphibious-aircraft-deal-moves-forward/

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  • 10 months later...

The negotiations dragged on since the above post. Abe and Modi are having a summit in India now and there a reports that this time a deal on the sale of US-2 might be made.

 

 

As Japanese Prime Minister Shinzo Abe arrives in India, there are rumors once again that this visit will be the one to see the conclusion of a long-pending defense deal between India and Japan.

According to local Indian reports, the presumptive deal that may be announced will include a 10-to-15 percent discount on the per-unit cost of each ShinMaywa US-2i amphibious aircraft, coming in at a total value of around $1.3 billion.

India would purchase 12 of the aircraft off-the-shelf and may produce up to 18 more domestically, in line with Indian Prime Minister Narendra Modi’s “Make in India” initiative.

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The deal would represent Japan’s largest overseas defense deal since it lifted its decades-long self-imposed ban on defense exports in 2014. It would additionally represent an important milestone in the India-Japan strategic relationship.

Since 2014, despite political sanction at the highest levels in both countries, negotiations had been bogged down over New Delhi’s concerns regarding the per-unit price and questions regarding potential technology transfer and domestic manufacturing in India.

For India, the short-take-off-capable ShinMaywa US-2 would add an important search-and-rescue capability in the Indian Ocean region. India may base the aircraft at the Andaman and Nicobar Island in the Bay of Bengal among other sites; the 4,500 km range of the aircraft would allow the US-2 aircraft to support civilian and naval vessels alike deep in the Indian Ocean.

On Monday, the Hindu‘s Business Line reported that during Indian Defense Minister Arun Jaitley’s recent visit to Japan on September 5 and 6, the final questions surrounding pricing were settled.

Jaitley met with his counterpart Itsunori Onodera, who returned to the Japanese defense portfolio in August following a cabinet reshuffle.

Onodera had presided over earlier negotiations as well on the deal, which dates back to before Abe’s administration, to the Democratic Party of Japan governments of Prime Ministers Yoshihiko Noda and Naoto Kan.

According to the Hindu, the deal will be announced during Abe’s visit to India, where he will confer with Modi on a range of issues of bilateral, regional, and global importance.

Since India and Japan set up their Strategic and Global Partnership in 2006, they have had annual rotating prime ministerial meetings; the arrangement is the only reciprocal arrangement of its kind for either country at the head-of-government level.

Defense ties between India and Japan have steadily expanded since the mid-2000s. The two countries began holding bilateral military exercises in 2012 and Japan now is a regular participant in the formerly bilateral U.S.-India Malabar drills.

This year’s exercise in the Indian Ocean involved a major focus on anti-submarine warfare. Japan’s first Izumo-class helicopter destroyer, the largest class of vessel in service with the Japanese Maritime Self-Defense Force, participated alongside India’s INS Vikramaditya aircraft carrier.

In addition to the conclusion of the long-pending US-2 deal, there are other prospects for Japan-India defense commercial cooperation.

Earlier this summer, Japan’s Mitsubishi-Kawasaki consortium received a Request For Information (RFI) from the Indian Navy for an $8 billion advanced air-independent propulsion (AIP) attack submarine contract.

https://thediplomat.com/2017/09/will-india-and-japan-finally-conclude-a-long-pending-us-2-amphibious-aircraft-defense-deal/

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This report speculates that perhaps, the balancing float was hit by a something large like a whale during take off causing the right wing to sink into the water thus causing one of the engines to get blown off from going below the sea surface.

 

Fookn' Japs can't leave whales alone!
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This report speculates that perhaps, the balancing float was hit by a something large like a whale during take off causing the right wing to sink into the water thus causing one of the engines to get blown off from going below the sea surface.

Fookn' Japs can't leave whales alone!

 

 

That whale's fault for coming near the home islands.

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