tomcat_1974 Posted November 4, 2015 Share Posted November 4, 2015 Romania PM Ponta resigns over Bucharest nightclub fire 8 minutes ago Romanian Prime Minister Victor Ponta has resigned after some 20,000 people took to the streets to protest over a nightclub fire that killed 32 people. Friday night's blaze in Bucharest started when a band performing at the club set off fireworks inside. Demonstrators called for Mr Ponta to step down, complaining of government corruption and poor safety supervision. "I'm handing in my mandate, I'm resigning, and implicitly my government too," Mr Ponta said in a statement. "I hope the government's resignation will satisfy the people who came out in the streets," he added. Ponta under fire In September, Mr Ponta became the first sitting Romanian prime minister to go on trial charged with corruption. He faces allegations of fraud, tax evasion and money laundering. He denies the charges and has accused prosecutors of being "totally unprofessional". He was one of three people who resigned under pressure from the protesters. They also singled out the mayor of the Bucharest district, where the nightclub fire occurred, and the country's interior minister. The protesters chanted "shame on you" and "assassins", and carried banners reading "corruption kills". [...] http://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-34720183 Took him a god awful long time ... He is under investigation for corruption as we speak... honorable is not what I would call him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Simon Tan Posted November 5, 2015 Share Posted November 5, 2015 Revolutsiya! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BansheeOne Posted December 2, 2015 Share Posted December 2, 2015 World | Wed Dec 2, 2015 6:38am EST Related: WORLD, RUSSIA NATO invites Montenegro to join alliance, defying Russia BRUSSELS | BY ROBIN EMMOTT AND SABINE SIEBOLD NATO invited tiny Montenegro on Wednesday to join the military alliance in its first expansion since 2009, defying Russian warnings that enlargement of the U.S.-led bloc further into the Balkans is "irresponsible" action that undermines trust. In a scripted session at NATO's headquarters in Brussels, Montenegro's Foreign Minister Igor Luksic strode into the imposing conference hall to loud applause from his peers as NATO chief Jens Stoltenberg declared: "This is the beginning of a very beautiful alliance." U.S. Secretary of State John Kerry said the decision to invite Montenegro was not directed at Russia. "NATO is not a threat to anyone ... it is a defensive alliance, it is simply meant to provide security," Kerry told a news conference. "It is not focused on Russia or anyone else." NATO diplomats said the decision sends a message to Moscow that it does not have a veto on the alliance's eastwards expansion, even if Georgia's membership bid has been complicated by its 2008 war with Russia. Moscow opposes any NATO extension to former communist areas of eastern and southeastern Europe, part of an east-west struggle for influence over former Soviet satellites that is at the center of the crisis in Ukraine. Russian Foreign Minister Sergei Lavrov said in September that any expansion of NATO was "a mistake, even a provocation". In comments to Russian media then, he said NATO's so-called open door policy was "an irresponsible policy that undermines the determination to build a system of equal and shared security in Europe." RIA news agency cited a Russian senator as saying on Wednesday that Russia will end joint projects with Montenegro if the ex-Communist country joins the North Atlantic Treaty Organisation. The Adriatic state of 650,000 people is expected to become a member formally next year. Viktor Ozerov, head of the Russian Federation Council's defense and safety committee, said the projects which could be axed included those in military areas, RIA reported. [...] http://www.reuters.com/article/2015/12/02/us-nato-montenegro-idUSKBN0TL0J620151202#5oV3TIEXI7rTsolJ.99 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bojan Posted December 2, 2015 Author Share Posted December 2, 2015 There is gonna be shitstorm in Montenegro over this. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Panzermann Posted December 2, 2015 Share Posted December 2, 2015 What is Montenegro to add to NATO, apart from a load of problems? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BansheeOne Posted December 2, 2015 Share Posted December 2, 2015 (edited) A cheap and safe opportunity to demonstrate to Russia it has no veto on NATO accessions? I wasn't aware that there was an element of dissent over membership in the Montenegrian unrest until recently. Which has led me to question whether a) it was retconned into the general dissatisfaction with the government or if the general dissatisfaction was cooked up as a vehicle to throw a spanner into the accession plans. Edited December 2, 2015 by BansheeOne Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bojan Posted December 2, 2015 Author Share Posted December 2, 2015 It is general not-likeness for NATO (1999, strong historical ties to Russia etc). Even a lot of those that otherwise support ruling party are very hostile to the idea of joining NATO. Hence there will be no referendum about it, hence there will be shitstorm (I hope there will be no blood, but there is no guarantee). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tomcat_1974 Posted December 2, 2015 Share Posted December 2, 2015 What is Montenegro to add to NATO, apart from a load of problems?it is not what it add... but an opportunity for them to join... You guys still go about the only notion for a country to join as being the pissing X country that had some ties.. It is a military alliance... defense pact ... what ever./.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ink Posted December 2, 2015 Share Posted December 2, 2015 It is general not-likeness for NATO (1999, strong historical ties to Russia etc). Even a lot of those that otherwise support ruling party are very hostile to the idea of joining NATO. Hence there will be no referendum about it, hence there will be shitstorm (I hope there will be no blood, but there is no guarantee).Bojan, are the anti-NATO and pro-NATO camps divided along pro-Serb-anti-Serb lines? I know nothing about Montenegro's politics. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Roman Alymov Posted December 2, 2015 Share Posted December 2, 2015 It is general not-likeness for NATO (1999, strong historical ties to Russia etc). Even a lot of those that otherwise support ruling party are very hostile to the idea of joining NATO. Hence there will be no referendum about it, hence there will be shitstorm (I hope there will be no blood, but there is no guarantee).Colleague of mine who is spending every summer in Montenegro described mood of his friends there as “Yes we do not like NATO but now we are in the middle of NATO and EU, we are small state – so too late to be pro-Russian, we have to join NATO”. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Panzermann Posted December 2, 2015 Share Posted December 2, 2015 Why not go the austrian way and join EU but not NATO? True neutrality like the swiss do, Montenegro does not consider an option? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Roman Alymov Posted December 2, 2015 Share Posted December 2, 2015 Why not go the austrian way and join EU but not NATO? True neutrality like the swiss do, Montenegro does not consider an option?My guess is for nation with experience of NATO bombings in fresh living memory, neutrality is not seen as an option. Joining is only guarantee from new bombing… Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
urbanoid Posted December 2, 2015 Share Posted December 2, 2015 Somehow I can't think about scenarios where Montenegro is bombed by NATO. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
swerve Posted December 2, 2015 Share Posted December 2, 2015 (edited) Indeed. Roman's off in one of his paranoid fantasies again. Russian Foreign Minister Sergei Lavrov said in September that any expansion of NATO was "a mistake, even a provocation". In comments to Russian media then, he said NATO's so-called open door policy was "an irresponsible policy that undermines the determination to build a system of equal and shared security in Europe." I'm trying to work out what's 'equal' about a system in which one country has the same weight as a few dozen others, with a few times its population, & an even bigger multiple of its national product - because it's bleeding obvious that what Lavrov means by 'equal' is Russia = everyone else, & should have a veto over anything anyone else wants to do. Edited December 2, 2015 by swerve Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Panzermann Posted December 2, 2015 Share Posted December 2, 2015 Indeed. Roman's off in one of his paranoid fantasies again.Well pulling one more country into the NATO camp and denying it from Russia makes kind of sense at least. cutting back russian influence piece by piece. I see no gain whatsoever that montenegro actually offers. and why should Montenegro be bombed as long as they stay away from Casino Royale? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lionel Mandrake Posted December 2, 2015 Share Posted December 2, 2015 Bombing? Sure. Always a possibility if the ever increasing Albanian minority in Montenegro should become restless a la Macedonia and Serbia and a 1999 Kosovo-style crack down launched. Seems (semi)reasonable that the powers that be in Montenegro would want to join NATO just to guard against such an eventuality. Of course, if you ask me, none of it will do them a damn bit of good should the Shqiptares ever get serious about "Greater Albania". Though, on the bright side, for Bojan, Ink, and Max(?) property values in BG should go up handsomely in any such eventuality.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Josh Posted December 2, 2015 Share Posted December 2, 2015 I suspect this has about as much to do with pissing off Russia as anything else. There certainly is no advantage to NATO. On the other hand Montenegro is probably less of a liability than the Baltic republics. It was a bad idea to include those in the first place IMO; at a minimum it played into making Russians paranoid of NATO, putting member nations so close to home, not to mention defending them would be problematic at best. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bojan Posted December 2, 2015 Author Share Posted December 2, 2015 (edited) double Edited December 2, 2015 by bojan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bojan Posted December 2, 2015 Author Share Posted December 2, 2015 Bojan, are the anti-NATO and pro-NATO camps divided along pro-Serb-anti-Serb lines? I know nothing about Montenegro's politics. Much more muddied than that. Pro-Serb are against, but "anti-Serb" are far from uniform, realizing a lot of their economy depends on Russia. And that it can not be replaced by "West"* any time soon... So most are at best as Roman noted "We are in the middle of it, we have no choice", but there is also strong opposition to it among them. *IDK for coast, but on Durmitor Russians and Ukrainians (less Ukrainians last two years) were more than 50%, of the tourists, Lot Israelis and Dutch also. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bojan Posted December 2, 2015 Author Share Posted December 2, 2015 (edited) Indeed. Roman's off in one of his paranoid fantasies again. Really? Cause 1999 never happened in your imaginary world? People who lost relatives still having strong feelings about it is not normal? Edited December 2, 2015 by bojan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
urbanoid Posted December 3, 2015 Share Posted December 3, 2015 I suspect this has about as much to do with pissing off Russia as anything else. There certainly is no advantage to NATO. On the other hand Montenegro is probably less of a liability than the Baltic republics. It was a bad idea to include those in the first place IMO; at a minimum it played into making Russians paranoid of NATO, putting member nations so close to home, not to mention defending them would be problematic at best. More of a liability than West Berlin? American and British soldiers weren't there to 'defend', just to make sure that Russians don't have to wonder if they are at war with NATO or not, if they start shooting at them. Not letting them in would basically look bad, after the West didn't recognize their annexation by USSR for all of the Cold War. It would also be an invitation for Russia to make a 'Crimea' there, especially in Estonia and Latvia. If shit hits the fan anyway, the task of defending those poor buggers will probably be largely up to my country, but IMHO we still did a Good Thing™. Forward presence, that's what is needed. And 'pissing off' Russia is good. They are always pissed off when the opportunity to meddle in other countries affairs is taken away from them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wilhelm Posted December 3, 2015 Share Posted December 3, 2015 Indeed. Roman's off in one of his paranoid fantasies again. Really? Cause 1999 never happened in your imaginary world? People who lost relatives still having strong feelings about it is not normal? Indeed.To paraphrase, Swerve's off in one of his revisionist fantasies again. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
urbanoid Posted December 3, 2015 Share Posted December 3, 2015 (edited) Revisionist? No one will argue that Yugoslavia was bombed and then Montenegro was part of it. But it wasn't because of Montengerin actions, but Serbian. WHY one would want to bomb Montenegro-independent state? Do they have some wet dreams about Great Montenegro and are on their way to invade, annex and cleanse the shit out of their neighbours? Even without taking their capabilities to do so into consideration, that simply wouldn't fly with NATO - that is if they were a member. In 1990s they were 'hijacked' by Belgrade's policies and goals, they couldn't care less about. Tough luck. Edited December 3, 2015 by urbanoid Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lionel Mandrake Posted December 3, 2015 Share Posted December 3, 2015 Hijacked? Hardly. Look into the background of a good chunk of the leadership of the FRY in the 1990s and - surprise, surprise - you will find a bunch of Montenegrins. Why, even old Slobo himself was one. Wet dreams of Greater Montenegro? Hardly - more like wet dreams of Greater Albania (see Serbia & Macedonia). It is hopeful to think that with Montenegro in NATO these dreams just MIGHT be dampened a bit (see Greece vs Turkey) though I wouldn't be too sure of it if I lived in Titograd. Honest question: We know that Roman has a day job and is on Moscow's salary - does Warsaw pay you by the hour or by the line? In either case they sure as hell aren't getting their money's worth with clap-trap like the above... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
urbanoid Posted December 3, 2015 Share Posted December 3, 2015 We know that Roman has a day job and is on Moscow's salary - does Warsaw pay you by the hour or by the line? In either case they sure as hell aren't getting their money's worth with clap-trap like the above... By saying 'go fuck yourself' to people accusing me of being paid for posting. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Create an account or sign in to comment
You need to be a member in order to leave a comment
Create an account
Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!
Register a new accountSign in
Already have an account? Sign in here.
Sign In Now