Meanwhile In Balkans...

[bd1]

58 minutes ago, Perun said:

they have about 60 years long history of flaying on this sky 🙂

damn , Balkans is scary. ..... and, how ? 😄

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Flaying

 

[Perun]

2 hours ago, bd1 said:

damn , Balkans is scary. ..... and, how ? 😄

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Flaying

 

ok, my bad 👍

[ink]

Just me wondering about something out loud:

Does the Serbian arms industry stand to benefit now that Macron has unblocked non-EU purchases of ammunition for Ukraine?

[bojan]

AFAIK practically every capacity is already booked in advance.

[Stuart Galbraith]

On 2/25/2024 at 4:26 PM, urbanoid said:

Their time was up a looong time ago. 

They can still kick ass in DCS multiplayer, if its any kind of consolation to anyone.

 

[Stuart Galbraith]

.

Edited February 28, 2024 by Stuart Galbraith

[ink]

21 minutes ago, bojan said:

AFAIK practically every capacity is already booked in advance.

Wow, really? Even including the possibility of switching to multiple shifts (which would surely be worth it if the EU is paying)?

Anyway, producing weapons for the EU that are obviously intended for Ukraine would probably have some legal and geopolitical implications for Serbia (none of which can't be overcome with the right compensation). 

[bojan]

PPU has something like 4 years of preorder. Main issue for increased production is lack of the workforce. Production line assistant worker can easily earn up the ~100k dinars (~850 euro) and still there is not enough of them, combination of various technical high schools being heavily neglected and small issue that they can earn much more working in, eg. Germany.

[ink]

6 minutes ago, bojan said:

PPU has something like 4 years of preorder. Main issue for increased production is lack of the workforce. Production line assistant worker can easily earn up the ~100k dinars (~850 euro) and still there is not enough of them, combination of various technical high schools being heavily neglected and small issue that they can earn much more working in, eg. Germany.

Thanks Bojan. Figured the workforce would be an issue.

A pretty difficult one to resolve too, given how the arms industry in Serbia is managed.

[Josh]

2 hours ago, bojan said:

PPU has something like 4 years of preorder. Main issue for increased production is lack of the workforce. Production line assistant worker can easily earn up the ~100k dinars (~850 euro) and still there is not enough of them, combination of various technical high schools being heavily neglected and small issue that they can earn much more working in, eg. Germany.

Who is ordering so much material from Serbia? Or is for domestic use?

[urbanoid]

Heh, I assume that the final user is Ukraine.

[bojan]

1 hour ago, Josh said:

Who is ordering so much material from Serbia? Or is for domestic use?

Domestic use is a miniscule part of the ammo production.

PPU is exporting loads to US and Europe civilian market + various long term military contracts in Europe and elsewhere.

There is another ammo manufacturer, "BELOM", under "Yugoimport" brand of arms export, they have exported a lot to a middlemen from Czech, Bulgaria, Turkey and UAE.

Larger caliber ammo is also mostly exported via middlemen, in order to avoid "no export to the countries at state of conflict" law. 122mm long range rockets were originally developed for Egypt, but were also sold, together with license to Pakistan, Azerbaijan and (IIRC) Greece. 155mm ERFB and ERFB-BB are sold to users of Nora B-52 SP artillery, but also others, and at least some have ended in Ukraine.

Other than that, SP artillery, NORA B-52 saw a number of buyers, including Cyprus, Myanmar, Kenia and recently Azerbaijan.

There is other, more boring stuff that is sold practically everywhere.

[Perun]

Croatia To Procure Eight Additional UH-60M Black Hawk Multi-Role Helicopters From The United States

https://www.overtdefense.com/2024/03/20/croatia-to-procure-eight-additional-uh-60m-black-hawk-multi-role-helicopters-from-the-united-states/

[Perun]

Croatia sign contract for DHC-515 firefighting aircraft

https://finance.yahoo.com/news/ccc-croatia-sign-contract-dhc-160600853.html

[JWB]

❔

 

[bojan]

There are elections soon.

[Rick]

Is there a good English language book on the basic history of the Balkans? From what little I know, it seems like one really messed up place. 

[Perun]

The best way to learn something would be to read few books from diferent sides

[sunday]

The Balkans is perhaps one of the best example of that Chinese curse, "may you live in interesting times", in action during several hundred of years.

[Perun]

Not quite, Balkan peninsula didnt have more "interesting times" then rest of Europe

29 minutes ago, sunday said:

The Balkans is perhaps one of the best example of that Chinese curse, "may you live in interesting times", in action during several hundred of years.

 

[Mistral]

24 minutes ago, Perun said:

Not quite, Balkan peninsula didnt have more "interesting times" then rest of Europe

 

No gas chambers for starters anyway.

[sunday]

Turks, Austrians, and sundry foederati, going up and down the Danube, some of Europe's best generals involved, nations that disappeared and appeared again, religious strife, a Bulgar emperor using the skull of a Byzantine emperor to drink wine...

That could go on and on.

[ink]

A more pertinent issue in the Balkans is that politicians in many of the countries have discovered the ease with which you can turn your neighbours into bogeymen with which to scare your own population. It works so well and costs so little (in terms of reputation or political capital) that they became addicted to it and just keep on pushing that button whenever they can.

Elections coming up => hit that button

Workers striking => hit that button

EU accession negotiations going badly, corruption scandal coming up, voters unhappy with the way you're running the country... => HIT that button!

Because the button deliberately looks scary and is trumpeted across the media, it then starts to look like something dramatic is really happening and foreign journos get sucked in (which also feeds their ego and sense of superiority, so they love it) ... But 99 times out of 100, it's all just a load of meaningless hot air ... Until shots are actually fired, then everything can go to shit overnight.

[Sardaukar]

45 minutes ago, Mistral said:

No gas chambers for starters anyway.

Not quite but close...

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jasenovac_concentration_camp

Unlike German Nazi-run camps, Jasenovac lacked the infrastructure for mass murder on an industrial scale, such as gas chambers. Instead, it "specialized in one-on-one violence of a particularly brutal kind",[8] and prisoners were primarily murdered with the use of knives, hammers, and axes, or shot.[9]

Edited March 28, 2024 by Sardaukar

[Mistral]

10 minutes ago, Sardaukar said:

Not quite but close...

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jasenovac_concentration_camp

Unlike German Nazi-run camps, Jasenovac lacked the infrastructure for mass murder on an industrial scale, such as gas chambers. Instead, it "specialized in one-on-one violence of a particularly brutal kind",[8] and prisoners were primarily murdered with the use of knives, hammers, and axes, or shot.[9]

Like I said no gas chambers. That they lacked the efficiency of the Germans should not be a surprise.