ickysdad Posted March 19, 2015 Posted March 19, 2015 I ask this question because I have seen some claim that gas chambers didn't kill people in the concentration camps but Typhus did and there was a severe outbreak of it during WW2,the chambers they say were just used to get rid of the bodies of people who had already succumbed to disease. Or they say we were bombing them so bad their rail networks so messed up food and pesticides to control lice that spread disease couldn't get no where. Just what do you say to such people ? Not to say you can say anything and get a logical answer to it but are there any good online sources to refute such non-sense?
Skywalkre Posted March 19, 2015 Posted March 19, 2015 If folks really believe that they've already gone out of their way to believe it. Even the most documented and thorough website, documentary, and museum isn't going to change something they've chosen to believe despite all the evidence out there to the contrary.
Wobbly Head Posted March 19, 2015 Posted March 19, 2015 "Never argue with a idiot he will bring you down to their level and beat you with experience." Springs to mind. You could tell him the evidence of what really happened in the camps along with the evidence of Hitler being a gay transvestite was kept in the twin towers that's why the illuminati blew them up. He is not going to change his beliefs so you may as well have some fun at his expense.
Corinthian Posted March 19, 2015 Posted March 19, 2015 Just ignore them. If they, however, spew their stuff to ignorant others, educate the latter. Life is too short to waste on rectifying nutjobs.
Ivanhoe Posted March 19, 2015 Posted March 19, 2015 Yeah, a saying that is traveling around the blogosphere is "You can't reason someone out of a position he didn't reason himself into." When someone arrives at a belief, having started with an emotion, maybe the only way to effect change is to get them to examine where they were mentally before they developed the belief. Not easily done, obviously.
Ken Estes Posted March 19, 2015 Posted March 19, 2015 I used to question the establishment of Holocaust museums in countries that did not experience it, but the insidious activities of deniers more than justify, IMO. Just as the Chinese have their own 'Do not Forget' [my term] museums of what they term the War of Resistance vs Japan, filled with horrific photos and exhibits that humans ought not to see, we in the West apparently have the duty to maintain the same, especially because these things are not consigned to the past and rear their ugly heads wherever and whenever war is practiced. It is part of the so-called human existence that itself is called into question by such actions.
Marek Tucan Posted March 19, 2015 Posted March 19, 2015 easiest would be asking him about the "real" death camps (ie where it was the only intent) from Action Reinhard. The camps were usually pretty small - too small to take daily transports they took and wait for infection to work. If that does not work, then nothing will. Cut your losses, preserve your sanity and just ignore...
mnm Posted March 19, 2015 Posted March 19, 2015 Besides, it was the Damned Books getting their just deserts. Re typhus, if you look at photos of living skeletons one wonders how typhus didn't get tem first. Forget it, they believe the Sun is square and you can show it to them every day, but it will be square for them.
Archie Pellagio Posted March 19, 2015 Posted March 19, 2015 A short sentence with the words 'fuck', 'go' and 'yourself' re-arranged to suit would be appropriate. Seriously, anyone who believes the haulocaust is a myth, or that the numbers are exaggerated or whatever has spent a fair amount of time and effort to deliberately come to that conclusion and sought evidence to fit that view. I've said it on this site before about certain individuals with inane and stubborn points of view on other topics: You just can't argue with that illogic.No reasoned, logical or rational argument or evidence will change their view.
Sardaukar Posted March 19, 2015 Posted March 19, 2015 Tell him to fly to Tel Aviv and tell it to all at Ben Gurion airport..
BansheeOne Posted March 19, 2015 Posted March 19, 2015 I ask this question because I have seen some claim that gas chambers didn't kill people in the concentration camps but Typhus did and there was a severe outbreak of it during WW2,the chambers they say were just used to get rid of the bodies of people who had already succumbed to disease. Or they say we were bombing them so bad their rail networks so messed up food and pesticides to control lice that spread disease couldn't get no where. Just what do you say to such people ? Not to say you can say anything and get a logical answer to it but are there any good online sources to refute such non-sense? How where they supposed to use gas chambers to get rid of typhus casualties - desinfecting bodies before burning so as to not contaminate the ovens? And while the destruction of infrastructure did indeed worsen supply for the various camp systems along with everybody else, they were never sufficient for the prisoners on purpose to begin with. But the funny thing is the Allies got blamed for not bombing the railroads to the extermination camps in the east because they were most off and had little priority for winning the war as quickly as possible; transports there were among the last things to work before the Soviets rolled over the camps. However, I agree with others who have pointed out that people who spout stuff like this usually have their blinders firmly nailed to their head and won't be swayed by fact-based reasoning.
mnm Posted March 19, 2015 Posted March 19, 2015 Tell him to fly to Tel Aviv and tell it to all at Ben Gurion airport.. You're too hasty, let them go to Jerusalem and then proclaim it by the Wailing Wall. Then you'll see what wailing really means This type of obtuseness can reach depths I never imagined existed. I do not take part in whatiffery - alternate history fo the rest of the world - because of the crazyness that rears up. I remember a guy in another forum who decided it was good idea to have the Germans - it's always to help the Germans win the bloody war! - do a Red Storm Rising and take over Iceland before the Allies, then it can be supplied from Norway by Ju52s ! The more objections were put, the higher the creativity! Jeez, if I were the German Government I'd have these guys hunted own and dropped into the ocean in weighted clothes baskets as lobster feed!
Mikel2 Posted March 19, 2015 Posted March 19, 2015 How about those who deny climate change? What sort of re-education camp should we put them in?
Wobbly Head Posted March 19, 2015 Posted March 19, 2015 How about those who deny climate change? What sort of re-education camp should we put them in? The problem is that the climate is such a complex system with so much variables both internal and external that it wold be almost impossible to link all the possible theoretical damage just to man made CO2 emissions. Where as there is uncontroversial proof that the Nazis were a bunch of evil bastards.
RETAC21 Posted March 19, 2015 Posted March 19, 2015 How about those who deny climate change? What sort of re-education camp should we put them in? Faith = belief without proof, therefore it's imune to reason. Nevertheless, it's interesting that you think that "deniers" should be put in a camp... What do you say? maybe ask what was the point of putting all that innocent people in camps in the first place?
Heirophant Posted March 19, 2015 Posted March 19, 2015 "Holocaust Deniers" belong to a more broad category we might term "The Delusional". Delusions can come in many forms, about many things. In the aforementioned, about a clearly documented historical event.Kinda makes the Deniers a type of conspiracy nut. Forget them. Move on.
JasonJ Posted March 19, 2015 Posted March 19, 2015 (edited) Debate them not in 1 on 1 but where there are many viewers and debate effectively. Even if the denier still holds his view, he will become isolated. If he is shoved into isolation harshly, that may cause him to do something bad in the future, but if he is softly pushed into isolation only at times when he presents his ideas, then even if he still holds onto them, he may feel to not take any delinquent action. Debate him again if he tries to spread his ideas. Edited March 19, 2015 by JasonJ
L.V. Posted March 19, 2015 Posted March 19, 2015 Just what do you say to such people ? Not to say you can say anything and get a logical answer to it but are there any good online sources to refute such non-sense? In a lot of places in Europe you could try to get him behind bars.
Markus Becker Posted March 19, 2015 Posted March 19, 2015 "Never argue with a idiot he will bring you down to their level and beat you with experience." Springs to mind.You beat me to it.
JasonJ Posted March 19, 2015 Posted March 19, 2015 To add, in order to debate effectively, one can't just pull out a link an expect it work. The person really needs to know the facts about the Holocaust to be able to debate it effective. If it just becomes general knowledge that it happened without knowing the details amongst all members of a society, then the society has failed in upholding the memory and lessons learned. It is critical that a certain percentage of the citizens to really know the holocaust in and out, especially on points that prove its existence. These people need to have established sincere credibility so as to have trust from the citizen masses. And it will be these expert people that have to maintain the lessons learned and the knowledge that it did indeed happen and one of the ways they are to maintain it is to always be ready to debate that it happened to anyone that denies it similar to how a firefighter must always be ready to put out a fire. Let the fire burn for too long, and it can become uncontrollable later. So as a citizen that does not know all the details, I guess ignore is the only option they have. If there is a lack in the number of people that really know the details and can debate effectively, I would encourage some of those citizens to become one that can protect the knowledge that it did indeed happen in a debate.
sunday Posted March 19, 2015 Posted March 19, 2015 It's never a good idea to enter on a discussion on obvious concepts. I mean, as of today, there are data enough to prove behind any reasonable doubt that Shoah did happen. So, if anyone doubts it, he is not being reasonable.
JasonJ Posted March 19, 2015 Posted March 19, 2015 It's never a good idea to enter on a discussion on obvious concepts. I mean, as of today, there are data enough to prove behind any reasonable doubt that Shoah did happen. So, if anyone doubts it, he is not being reasonable.I disagree. Sometimes it's necessary to enter into direct communication. Although only someone that really knows the subject qualifies in going into direct communication. Lots of people are not reasonable. Some people won't properly investigate by themselves. Thus direct communication is necessary when the situation calls for it.
Mikel2 Posted March 19, 2015 Posted March 19, 2015 (edited) How about those who deny climate change? What sort of re-education camp should we put them in? Faith = belief without proof, therefore it's imune to reason. Nevertheless, it's interesting that you think that "deniers" should be put in a camp... What do you say? maybe ask what was the point of putting all that innocent people in camps in the first place? You laugh, but some people have advocated jail for those who deny "climate change". I bet if you ask the crazy lady in that plane... Edited March 19, 2015 by Mikel2
Adam_S Posted March 19, 2015 Posted March 19, 2015 I ended up in a "debate" with one of these characters on another forum a few years back. I just ended up writing post after post with more and more evidence supporting the existence of the holocaust. Obviously it nothing to convince the nutter in question but I'd like to think I helped to make sure that anybody who might have been reading the thread realise what a load of bollocks the guy was talking. I think at the end of the day, nutters are going to be nutters and all you can do is try and make sure their ideas don't spread.
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