Myanmar Rebels Vs Gov

[JasonJ]

In Kokang's Laukkai township, in war-torn Shan State, fighting has flared up between the government and rebels in the past week. From Feb. 9-12, "13 clashes broke out between the government troops and the Kokang renegade groups, with the former carrying out five airstrikes during the military operations. So far, the fighting has left government forces with 47 dead, 73 wounded and five vehicles destroyed," a state-owned newspaper reported Feb. 13.

http://asia.nikkei.com/Politics-Economy/International-Relations/Myanmar-imposes-state-of-emergency-in-Kokang-as-death-toll-rises

[chino]

Article about China supplying Type 03 rifles to the Wa State rebels.

http://www.thefirearmblog.com/blog/2012/05/07/china-supplies-qbz-03-rifle-to-united-wa-state-army/

 

And the older Type 81 to another group the Kachin.

 

This is quite confusing as I thought China supports the Burmese government.

[JasonJ]

Looks like the Wa state and Kokang are different places yet next to each other and both share a border with China. A quick look at Kokang suggests some Chinese roots in Kokang. http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/KokangMaybe the recent democracy something in Myanmar has something to do with it.

[shep854]

MIchael Yon is an independent journalist (and former SF soldier) who has spent a good bit of time there.

https://www.michaelyon-online.com/assessment-of-the-current-situation-in-burma.htm

[JasonJ]

MIchael Yon is an independent journalist (and former SF soldier) who has spent a good bit of time there.

https://www.michaelyon-online.com/assessment-of-the-current-situation-in-burma.htm

Interesting link, thanks. Although a year old, it looks like the Burmese military is not fully in control by its government and is being oppressive. If this is still the case, then it's difficult to find fault in China providing weapons to the rebels.

[shep854]

 

MIchael Yon is an independent journalist (and former SF soldier) who has spent a good bit of time there.

https://www.michaelyon-online.com/assessment-of-the-current-situation-in-burma.htm

Interesting link, thanks. Although a year old, it looks like the Burmese military is not fully in control by its government and is being oppressive. If this is still the case, then it's difficult to find fault in China providing weapons to the rebels.

 

Hopefully, Yon will soon update his information. He seems to have good sources among the rebels.

[chino]

I can't see the democratization process in Rangoon as having a direct correlation to how the Burmese - as the dominant racial/religious group - deal with the rebels.

 

Whichever government is in Rangoon - even Aung San Suu Kyi's - they will have to deal with these powerful rebel armies one way or the other. Assuming they want to negotiate, they'd want to do so from a position of strength.

 

From the rebels' POV, most couldn't care less what government sits in Rangoon. To most, as long as the dominant Burmese ethnic group remains in power, the deeply-rooted racial and religious issues remain. And being so far flung, surrendering to the Rangoon government only means the rebels start paying taxes to a central government in Rangoon who will give them nothing in return.

 

And they have further reasons not to want to surrender to the Burmese Buddhists. The Burmese treatment of the ethnic Rohingya people is perhaps an example of the kind they wish to avoid.

 

In neighboring Thailand, the Thais are not very Buddhist either when it comes to treating their Malay Muslim population as another example. The Thai army's brutal actions are near ethnic cleansing and genocidal in many instances. They mostly escape condemnation by western nations because Thailand is a "democracy".

 

And if you look at other Asian rebellions like Sri Lanka vs Tamil Tigers, Philippines vs MILF : ), you will see that whether under dictatorship (Marcos) or democracy, the racial and religious strife will continue.

 

With the Rangoon government/army further implicit in the narcotics trade, and neighboring countries supporting some of the rebel factions, it is near impossible for the situation to sort itself out in the mid-term.

Edited February 20, 2015 by chino

[Yalmuk]

Movies worth of combat footage from Myanmar for those who are interested.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kq_V8tlptz0

[chino]

Wow, the KIA is armed with Chinese Type 81 rifle and some wear PLA helmets and uniforms.

 

EDIT:

 

Wrong, it is a Kachin manufactured rifle.

Edited February 20, 2015 by chino

[chino]

The Chinese Type 81

 

The Kachin rifle K09

 

K010

 

 

A specialised grenade firing version K011

http://www.thefirearmblog.com/blog/2013/01/24/mystery-rifle-grenade-launcher-in-burma/

 

Edited February 20, 2015 by chino

[Yalmuk]

It's interesting that rebels/militias in Asia do not have much interest to acquire RPG's and instead favor mortars and other such weapons, of course terrain could have something to do with it, but overall Asian militants seem to be far more better organized than what we see in middle east. Could be cultural differences... Arabs seem to prefer not aiming and wasting plenty of ammo (macho culture?) unlike those guys in above videos.

Edited February 28, 2015 by Yalmuk

[chino]

IIRC the Kachin rebels also make their own version of the RPG.

 

They reserve these for convoy attacks. The grenade launching rifle is popular probably because the ammo is easier to make that a rocket. But the significant thing here is that the Kachin manufacture their own weaponry. They're more than just a ragtag tribal guerrilla force. There is also a sniper and a SAW version of the K rifle whereas the original PRC rifle only exist in basic rifle version IIRC.

 

When switching from the AK to the Type 81, the PLA claimed the Type 81 to be much more accurate and reliable.

Edited February 28, 2015 by chino

[TTK Ciar]

Any idea what their armories look like? Do they operate workshops in the backs of trucks, or underground, or what? Factories in big, obvious buildings seem like they'd be mightily vulnerable to a foe with superior conventional military strength.

[Panzermann]

For smallarms one only needs a well equipped workshop not a big factory. A drill press, usual tools found in any DIY shop. The most complicated is to have a press for fitting the barrel into the AK receiver. Or have the Type 81 derived rifles a different barrel trunnion than Kalashnikov's design? If it is screwed in it would be even easier to assemble.

 

Maybe they source materials like sheet metal, screws and half done parts, maybe parts kits from China and just assemble them in their rebel villages. I bet some chinese party official or army general makes some money with deals across the border.

 

 

edited to add: or think of the khyber pass workshops building various modern or historical weapons from scratch.

Edited February 28, 2015 by Panzermann

[Simon Tan]

AK type trunnion. Press fit barrels. Tokarev type tappet gas system.

 

ALL the parts come from PRC. ALL are OEM. How many are 'released' by PRC.gov is another matter. Their workshops are usually co-located with an automotive one.

 

Type 81 comes in several variants including RPK analogue. Nothing the Kachin or Kokang have is domestically innovated.

 

The Kokang rebels are descended from the Communist Party of Burma and are ethnic Han Chinese. They have historical support and ties to Beijing.

 

As for Pattani and Narathiwat, you have no idea WTF you are talking about.

[chino]

Can't find much info about Kachin arms source.

 

Reports about how the largest rebel group - the Wa UWSA - gets its arms is probably a good indication. The Wa is heavily-armed by China, though not directly by the PRC government. Kinda like how CIA arms insurgent groups in S America. Apparently even AFV and armed Mi-17 helicopters.

 

The Wa have hydro-electric dams etc. So you can see what the Burmese government is up against.

 

It is alleged that the Wa manufactures copies of Chinese arms with support from Chinese factories.

 

Wa state is like a country with not just a military but also a police force. The Wa are not ethnically Chinese but they have adopted Chinese Putonghua as the official language, the RMB as the currency, use China mobile phone networks etc. IOW a vassal state of China. Again, that ring of buffer states that China seem to need WRT land borders.

 

India alleges that the Wa is the largest arms dealers in Asia and supplies arms to India's NE rebels.

 

China officially supports the Burmese junta but that support is cooling post democracy. So now China concentrates on securing the allegiance of the rebel groups bordering China.

Edited March 1, 2015 by chino

[chino]

Since most Burma rebel groups are in one way or another producing opiate drugs or amphetamines, by supporting them China is not helping its own fight against the enormous drug problem in Southern China.

[chino]

As for Pattani and Narathiwat, you have no idea WTF you are talking about.

 

I hate it when out of the blue when someone comes in using words like "fuck" in the course of normal posting. If you have something to say, say it. If not, fuck you.

Edited March 1, 2015 by chino

[Simon Tan]

Go to Pattani and Narathiwat. Those suffering most from the current round of 'Pattanism' are in fact the ethnic Malays/Pattanis who used to enjoy a booming cross border business particularly in places like Golok. Today, they are ghost towns. The separatists terrorize Buddhist and Muslims equally. The Thai security forces deployed are near the bottom of the barrel and simply cannot secure the friendly population which is why they establish the militias. Many of these militiamen are Muslim and they are especially targeted by the separatists to deepen the ethnic division (which was almost entirely absent in the 90s). Claims of genocide and ethnic cleansing are based entirely on the Tak Bai fiasco and unsupported as policy.

The same problem as beset the Malaysians vis the CPM has beset the Thais. Most separatists cross the border at will. Many have two sets of identity, one Thai, the other Malaysian, even if this is supposedly verboten. The other aspect is that most persons crossing the border regularly do so with a Border Pass and not a Passport. That is if they even bother to use an official crossing point. In many places you can wade across to Thailand.

 

This has been limited somewhat by the border fence which now covers most of the border region and is jointly patrolled. Still, the separatists have not only sympathizers but also family in Malaysia. When the heat is on, they slip across and lie low. There is some effort to root them out but it is politically undesirable to do so, given the strength of the Islamist PAS in the border states.

 

Fuck you very much.

[Corinthian]

Now that Simon has posted here, I must confess, when I first saw this thread - and considering that he was in the "business" back then (or so I think) - I thought Simon had personally something to do with the recent, ah, "issues" there after his food trip thereabouts. :D

[Simon Tan]

My trip and the troubles are just coincidences, I swear!

[shep854]

Check his cloak-room and dag-- er, knife drawer...

[chino]

The Tak Bai incident helped deepened the animosity by indiscriminately targeting non-terrorist Malays. Whether it is supported policy or not, it demonstrate the hatred the Buddhist soldiers have for the Malays. Simon, next time you have your panties in a knot you can go fuck yourself if you like fucking so very much.

[chino]

Shooting unarmed demonstrators, and then piling them into trucks on top of each other for hours.

 

"In October, at least 87 unarmed Muslim men died after the military fired on a demonstration at Tak Bai and then bundled hundreds into trucks piled four of five high for six hours. Most were suffocated to death."

[Simon Tan]

Perhaps if you actually knew Thai-Malays who live in fear of the indiscriminate terror of shootings and bombings affecting their families and communities and are the most often targeted by the separatists, then you might understand the struggle is as much local as it is with Bangkok. Telling me about Tak Bai is pointless since it was neither the root of the insurgency nor the reason it persists. Only some dumb fuck who has a superficial understanding of the conflict would believe that Tak Bai was the genesis of the conflict or part of a policy of genocide against ethnic Malays. Please go to Yala and tell me about the ethnic cleansing going on. Jesus, you are ignorant and revel in it.