M4 105Mm Vs Panzers/t34

[Kiwi Gunner]

As there were 105mm armed m4s in inventory how effective would they have been firing against tanks? One would imagine a 105mm he shell against a tank would knock the crap out of the crew. Would it?

[John_Ford]

105MM Heat round out of the M2A1 penetrates 102MM at 0* angle. Supposed to be the only round in the US inventory that could penetrate the Panther from the front.

[shep854]

HE should at least knock out the running gear with a hit. Only a mobility kill, to be sure, but it buys time for other measures, even if it's just getting away.

[shep854]

HE should at least knock out the running gear with a hit. Only a mobility kill, to be sure, but it buys time for other measures, even if it's just getting away.

[bojan]

HEAT had problems fusing at high angles.

[sunday]

On "Tankes on the Beaches" they tell of the disappointment of Marine tankers with the 105mm gunned Shermans because of things like the absence of turret power traverse, like those tanks were more of SPGs than true tanks.

Edited December 10, 2014 by sunday

[DogDodger]

those tanks were more of SPGs than true tanks.

That's exactly what they were. The Army considered them and referred to them as "assault guns."

[Mobius]

The pamphlet from RAC Tank Museum says the 105mm HEAT penetrates 100mm @30° while the 95mm penetrates 110mm @30°.

Though the yugo tests seem to indicate that is a bit high.

[bojan]

That data is probably from static test, those early HEAT lost 10-20% of penetration when actually fired on target.

[Colin]

I punched through the side of a US M575 or M59 APC with 105mm HE which would be similar, range would be about 500m. wiki lists it's armour at "Welded steel between 25 mm to 9.5 mm thick"

[JWB]

Ordnance Department reported 4 1/2" penetration for M67 HEAT.

[Panzermann]

That data is probably from static test, those early HEAT lost 10-20% of penetration when actually fired on target.

They rotated in flight when fired from rifled cannon which then disturbed the explosion of the shaped charge. Reducing the effect. 10-20% loss sounds about right for that.

[Colin Williams]

What about developing an armor piercing round or even HVAP? The British had an AP round for the 25 pdr that was relatively effective in the 1941-42 time frame. An APHE round from a 105 may have been decent compared to the standard rounds used in the 75mm.

[richard g]

So in the artificial world where tanks did not fight tanks, what Tiger KO and 88mm matching gun did the designated US tank destroyer have? Assuming there was such a complete universal animal and not some inferior pretender that satisfied the bean counters and the politicians.

[DougRichards]

What about developing an armor piercing round or even HVAP? The British had an AP round for the 25 pdr that was relatively effective in the 1941-42 time frame. An APHE round from a 105 may have been decent compared to the standard rounds used in the 75mm.

 

The 105mm in the M4 was based on the M3 howitzer, maximum muzzle velocity of 1,020ft/sec. Not really a viable MV for an APHE round. The 25pdr managed 2000ft/sec with its AP shot, and 1,700 ft/sec with its 'super charge' HE round.

 

You would be better off using the M7 Priest as a stug/pak type vehicle than the 105mm Sherman.

 

Better still, of course, would be for the US Army (and USMC) to adopt the British Honey Badger.

[Panzermann]

Would a squash head round been possible in WW2? A 105 mm HESH should have meant a very bad day for many tanks. Maybe except for those with skirts.

[DougRichards]

Would a squash head round been possible in WW2? A 105 mm HESH should have meant a very bad day for many tanks. Maybe except for those with skirts.

 

Squash heads were based on the work of Charles Burney, in the early 1940s, as a way of having his recoiless guns do useful work against concrete fortifications. They did not see service in WW2. Burnie guns were of even lower MV than short howitzers, the 3.45in gun having a MV of 600ft/sec, with a max range of 1000yards. Its squah head may have been useful against a tank, but would have had difficulty hitting one.

[mnm]

Would a squash head round been possible in WW2? A 105 mm HESH should have meant a very bad day for many tanks. Maybe except for those with skirts.

 

Tanks in skirts? Like this?

[shep854]

Bad, mnm! Bad, bad boy!!

[Guest Charles]

 

Would a squash head round been possible in WW2? A 105 mm HESH should have meant a very bad day for many tanks. Maybe except for those with skirts.

 

Tanks in skirts? Like this?

 

Dear God man, are you trying to get us all to tear our eye's out .

 

As an aside, where does one position the AT gun in Walmart?.

 

Charles

[seahawk]

Sports department, the position least likely to be overrun by heavies.

[Colin]

Go recoilless as you can take out shoppers from both ends

[Wobbly Head]

Sports department, the position least likely to be overrun by heavies.

No you want a target rich environment not a empty zone. Position the gun at the end of the snack aisle with mines in the middle. The mines take out the first take out the last. Then you can take out the rest out while the heavies can't move.

[DougRichards]

 

Would a squash head round been possible in WW2? A 105 mm HESH should have meant a very bad day for many tanks. Maybe except for those with skirts.

 

Tanks in skirts? Like this?

 

Prototype Dalek

[Sovngard]

 

 

 

Tanks in skirts? Like this?

 

Dear God man, are you trying to get us all to tear our eye's out .

 

As an aside, where does one position the AT gun in Walmart?.

 

Charles

 

 

 

Does someone said skirt ?