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Meanwhile In Turkey


DADI

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Might they purchase Mitsubishi F-3 from Japan, when it comes to market? Or is that too long to be without a modern stealth fighter? F-3 will purportedly come to market in the 2030's.

 

https://nationalinterest.org/blog/buzz/will-japans-6th-generation-fighter-make-f-22-and-f-35-obsolete-66041

 

There's also the question of whether the Japanese would sell to them. My impression is that the Japanese are still trying to figure out their own plan for arms exports.

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Eventually they could buy Su-57 whenever that project bears fruit, if the Russians are willing. But thats far down the road - the Russians themselves will be the first customers when production starts. And Turkish firms will take no part in Su-57 production. Japanese exports are theoretical and Turkish production a pipe dream.

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Armata! Etc.

Elaborate?

I assume he means that Amarta is another thing that will happen, but where certain people get excited about saying is never going to enter full scale production.

It certainly doesn't help that they're still about 2,280 tanks behind the 2,300 by 2025 goal.

In 2015 they paraded tanks that were in driving and shooting condition. Yet only now are they starting state trials.

 

Kurganets is stuck in a limbo and likely won't see production until mid to late 2020's.

 

Bumerang is doing better but its status is not well understood.

 

In the Army forum they show a lot of different duplications, but no real progress on anything.

 

 

If you dont count T72B3, they certainly are. I think that was an expression of desperation they just cant produce tanks like they used to. And they really need to, judging by the force structure they want.

 

The BMD4 seemed to be doing quite well last I looked. I dont know why they dont just mass produce that and bing Kurganets. Its no worse armoured than BMP2 it would be replacing. Course it would mean reducing the size of the infantry section, but if the VDV can cope with that...

Edited by Stuart Galbraith
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Might they purchase Mitsubishi F-3 from Japan, when it comes to market? Or is that too long to be without a modern stealth fighter? F-3 will purportedly come to market in the 2030's.

 

https://nationalinterest.org/blog/buzz/will-japans-6th-generation-fighter-make-f-22-and-f-35-obsolete-66041

 

There's also the question of whether the Japanese would sell to them. My impression is that the Japanese are still trying to figure out their own plan for arms exports.

 

Japan has made a lot of changes for the transfer and export of defense technology and equipment in recent years. Such transfer and export agreements have been made with several countries such as the US, Australia, the UK, the Philippines, Vietnam, India, and so on. Japan has looked for for selling P-1 to the UK and New Zealand but both are going for the P-8. Probably to several other places too. C-2 has been shown off for sale to ME countries. With Australia, there was of course the submarine competition in which Japan was ready to export Soryu based subs to Australia. Japan has been in negotiations with India for the sale of US-2 for about 4 years now, but India is India. With the UK, BAE has been looked at as a potential development partner for the F-3. The UK and Japan did make agreement to develop a new AAM. In recent years, Japan has also tried to sell its ground based radar to Thailand and the Philippines. I think Thailand went with a European company. The Philippines is still looking at various bidders for the radar that includes an Israeli radar but last I've seen, the Japan radar seems to have high chances. In the form of grant aid to help boost the Philippines and Vietnam territorial observation capabilities quickly due to recent South China Sea tensions, both those countries have received various patrol boats from Japan, 6 medium size ones for Vietnam IIRC. And 10 medium size ones, two speedy types, and 5 small single prop patrol aircraft to the Philippines.

 

That's all been within the past 5-6 years. Mostly only small items in grant form actually occurred. But P-1, C-2, and Soryu are very big ticket items. US-2 fairly big too.

 

There is also the export of components. So some components in PAC-2 are from Japan. SM-3 Blk2A was a joint-development between the US and Japan. There was some word about Japanese GaN going into LRDR last year but don't know the whereabouts of that development these days.

 

 

 

As for F-3 for Turkey, it'll be too long of a wait I think. Yeah, the long term plan has it entering service by the 2030s.

Edited by JasonJ
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if the rumors are true, they have more planes than pilots at the moment. It seems the airforce was the main drive behind the coup and as a result the Sultan has it in for them.

 

Its been 3 years since the coup and they are still arresting active pilots as being part of the coup. The helicopter pilot who picked up the current sec of defence from the base he was held is now under arrest as part of the coup plotters.

 

​http://www.hurriyetdailynews.com/300-000-operations-held-against-terrorists-interior-minister-144992

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Ive read that Turkey has been stockpiling F16 parts. So they were clearly expecting all this mayhem to happen.

Planned for the contingency. Also they are at war more or less in Iraq and Syria. Having spare parts on hand is then a good idea instead of waitng for FedEx or UPS.

 

 

Does this event open a slot for other country to join the F-35 program?

Rumour has itthat the USA now want to sell the half dozen F-35 built for Turkey so far for a discount price to someone else.

 

But what with the contract obligations wth Turkey sharing work in the project? Which firm is to replace them? What with penalites for breach of contract? That is going to be work programme for lawyers for years.

Edited by Panzermann
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Might they purchase Mitsubishi F-3 from Japan, when it comes to market? Or is that too long to be without a modern stealth fighter? F-3 will purportedly come to market in the 2030's.

 

There would not be much political benefit from such a sale to any of the direct parties involved if Turkey is still in power broker/playing one faction off against the other mode at that point.

 

Economically and unfortunately, the green light for such a sale would have to come from Washington.

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It is the system of brakes and counterweights. The US trained, supervised and supported rebels bombed his palace so he needs something not in US hands to protect himself.

Its possible that the US trained Turkish pilots at some point, but it seems rather far fetched that they trained pilots for a coup. Thats kinda up there with there are no Russian soldiers in Ukraine .

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but it seems rather far fetched that they trained pilots for a coup.

 

Not for the coup of course. I couldn't imagine anything special training required for a coup, anyway. Building the Presidential Palace in the desert and training the bombing of it would be quite counter-productive :)

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Their Air Force cares, the Sultan not so much, he was saying all along that if the US dares to do such a thing they will buy SU57s. Besides they are designing a 5th generation fighter themselves.

 

https://ahvalnews.com/tf-x/turkey-reveals-tf-x-next-generation-indigenous-fighter-jet

 

Yes he is that delusional.

 

This. And BTW weapons and equipment is probably the smallest problem of the Turkish armed forces. They have lost God knows how many personnel in the waves of purges.

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The S-400 has been around for a while and has been sold to a number of other countries, including recently Saudi Arabia. I guess the Russians are less squeamish about sharing it than about their latest aeronautical technology.

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Well, if they didnt trust him, its a strange choice to sell S400. I have to wonder if its a reflection that Su57 just isnt ready yet, despite the bold claims.

 

It will take years to set up the factories and start prosduction. the SU-35 is already in production and can be delivered in a short timeframe.

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An element of overall Turkish disappointment over the status of their EU membership hopes may be at play. The withdrawal from investment in NATO as symptomatic of this would explain some of the motivation for this.

Edited by Nobu
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