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Six HMCS Toronto crew members help battle fire in Turkey

Six members of Her Majesty’s Canadian Ship (HMCS) Toronto jumped into action while eating out at a restaurant during their port visit to Antalya, Turkey on Friday, when a fire broke out in the building.

The crew members, along with two men from the air detachment, used a fire hose, which was rigged outside in the street, to cool the structure and put out the fire. They also assisted with evacuation efforts and left only after the local fire department took control of the scene.

Lieut. (Navy) Samuel Gaudreault, Lieut. (Navy) Daniel Willis, Master Cpl. Shirley Jardine, Leading Seaman Jean-Francois Martineau, Cpl. Jo Boivin, and Able Seaman Chris Richards are trained as first responders for fire and flood control, as are all members of the Royal Canadian Navy’s ship companies.

“My officers and crew are professional sailors, which they demonstrate constantly on board HMCS Toronto, in their daily work,” said Commander Jason Armstrong, commanding officer of the ship. “These men responded instinctively, bravely and selflessly to a dangerous situation. Their fortitude and training are proven. The entire ship’s company is very proud to have them as part of the team.”

HMCS Toronto was briefly in Antalya after participating in an anti-submarine exercise in the eastern Mediterranean Sea led by Turkey.

http://www.thestar.com/news/canada/2014/11/16/six_hmcs_toronto_crew_members_help_battle_fire_in_turkey.html

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I still think if one judges the Ottomans on the Armenian genocide alone, thats shocking enough.

 

I think Armenian genocide is not proper example to judge Ottoman Empire, since it happened when this empire was already falling apart to be replaced by newly invented national state and was, to some degree, one of signs of this falling apart. But there are lots of other dark pages over long Turkish history to point at – still, everybody got some….

 

All true. The massacres of Armenians were done under the Young Turks, who overthrew the Sultan (but kept him as a figurehead) in 1908. They were Turkish nationalists rather than imperialists, & keen on modernisation - in some respects.

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...The Greeks (perhaps also the Serbs: I've not read up on that) also massacred Jews...

Not here. Antisemitism was largely unknown around here until late 19th century, and even then it was relatively mild. That is mostly due the most population having no contact with Jews as they were mostly city population. Main wave started after WW1 when right wing movements tried to identify Jews with Communism, but most people did not care as there were a lot of communists and socialist sympathizers (IIRC Communist party was 2nd by number of votes on 1st parliamentarian elections).

That noted, there were also numerous enclaves of Turks left, just in much lesser numbers then before. There are parts of Belgrade that were mostly Turkish until WW1, only after WW1 and large urbanization those lost a majority. There are some traces still, school in Belgrade where my mother worked for 32 years had steady ~5-10% of Muslim children.

Those were Muslims that stood by the Serbs in two uprisings (especially 1st one was more "popular revolt" against unpopular semi-independent regime in Belgrade), with sometimes as much as 10% of those fighting vs Turks being Muslims.

Edited by bojan
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I'm not sure that it was anti-semitism in Greece. Jews were mostly urban, as you say they were in Serbia. Turks, & Muslims in general, were also much more urban than Greeks, & from my reading, the war in the Morea (Peloponnese peninsula - the centre of the Greek uprising of 1821) seems to have consisted largely of Greek sieges of towns, & near-total massacres of the mainly Muslim populations when the towns fell - along with the Jews. I suspect that the Jews weren't singled out, they were just seen as part of the Ottoman urban-based structure.

 

 

Greek identity seems to be closely tied to the Greek Orthodox church. In the 1920s, many Greek-speaking "Bulgarians" were shipped to Bulgaria, & Bulgarian-speaking "Greeks" sent back. They were identified as Bulgarian or Greek by whether they worshipped in Greek or Bulgarian Orthodox churches. Ditto with the exchange of "Turks" & "Greeks". Identification was by religion.

Edited by swerve
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Those were Muslims that stood by the Serbs in two uprisings (especially 1st one was more "popular revolt" against unpopular semi-independent regime in Belgrade), with sometimes as much as 10% of those fighting vs Turks being Muslims.

 

Is it a difference between Turks and ethnic Serbs converted into Muslim faith? Or they are all considered Turks?

In this BBC documentary I mentioned earlier was a story of many Greece Turks unwilling to go to Turkey on “population exchange” (ready even to convert to Christianity if needed) but they were not allowed to stay.

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I'm not sure that it was anti-semitism in Greece. Jews were mostly urban, as you say they were in Serbia...

 

Hm, might be a fact that Serbia first got autonomy, and then gradually got independence, so there were not a lot of "taking towns" (there were in 1st uprising, but there were almost no large-scale massacres of Muslim population in that one).

That noted, Bosnia under Austria also lost quite a bit % of Muslim population, while Serbian and Croatian populations % increased - OFC this was further complicated by a fact that there were people who were Muslim and identified as Croats or Serbs - Muhamed Mehmedbasic being well known example.

Edited by bojan
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Stuart,

 

yeah, but most of those 'Moors' in Spain were probably converts who'd adopted the language, not immigrants. Same with Muslims in the Balkans, Turks in Turkey, Arabs in N. Africa, etc.

 

'Relatively good' in the context of the Ottoman empire means stressing the 'relatively', The Ottomans didn't do things others didn't also do, & did less than some, but they weren't nice.

 

BTW, few people pay any attention to the ethnic cleansing that went on in SE Europe as the Ottoman Empire declined & retreated. Everywhere up to Hungary was sprinkled with mosques, attended by local converts & immigrants as well as Turkish officials & garrisons. No trace left now across much of that territory. The numbers were quite small in Hungary (taken by the Habsburgs between 1683 & 1698), & in what is now Romania the Turks ruled indirectly, through local clients, so there was no Turkish settlement or conversion, but in Greece & Serbia a large proportion of the population was Muslim, some Turkish, some Albanian & others, but many Serbian & Greek-speaking, when they got their independence in the early 19th century. You wouldn't know it now. Those who survived the slaughter fled, & the traces they left were obliterated. The Greeks (perhaps also the Serbs: I've not read up on that) also massacred Jews. It was well documented at the time by philhellene Europeans who'd volunteered to help the Greeks, some of who left in disgust because of it.

Absolutely. Im just illustrating that from the Spanish perspective they could be seen as outsiders, which is obviously not the case with the Armenians in the Ottoman Empire. A better comparison might be the Irish Famine, and that is something we hardly engineered for the purpose.

 

All that is doubtless true, Ive just got in the back of my mind the memory of what happened in Edward 1st's reign to the Jews in England. Admittedly we were rather more tolerant than many other European states, but clearly we had our moments. I still think if one judges the Ottomans on the Armenian genocide alone, thats shocking enough.

 

 

No, they weren't, after 8 centuries they were integrated with the Christians, but that doesn't mean everything was peachy, as there were a number of rebellions:

 

"On January 2, 1492, the leader of the last Muslim stronghold in Granada surrendered to the armies of a recently united Christian Spain (after the marriage of Ferdinand II of Aragón and Isabella I of Castile, the Catholic Monarchs). They forced the remaining Jews to leave Spain, convert to Roman Catholic Christianity or be killed for not doing so. To exert social and religious control, in 1480, Isabella and Ferdinand agreed to allow the Inquisition in Spain. Granada's Muslim population rebelled in 1499. The revolt lasted until early 1501, giving the Castilian authorities an excuse to void the terms of the Treaty of Granada (1491). In 1501, Castilian authorities delivered an ultimatum to Granada's Muslims: they could either convert to Christianity or be expelled.
The Inquisition was aimed mostly at Jews and Muslims who had overtly converted to Christianity but were thought to be practicing their faiths secretly. They were respectively called marranos and moriscos. However, in 1567 King Philip II directed Moriscos to give up their Arabic names and traditional dress, and prohibited the use of the Arabic language. In reaction, there was a Morisco uprising in the Alpujarras from 1568 to 1571. In the years from 1609 to 1614, the government expelled Moriscos. The historian Henri Lapeyre estimated that this affected 300,000 out of an estimated total of 8 million inhabitants"
Note the last ones were expelled more than a century after the Jews, some of which still use an old form of Spanish and remained attached to Sapin enough that recently they have been granted nationality if they so wish. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sephardi_Jews
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The sephardic jews also have differing religious traditions from mainstream orthodox jews, which alienates both groups from each other. No wonder some think of moving back to Spain, where they would be some small exotic group that goes unnoticed for their small numbers . North Africa where they also came from is out I guess. ;)

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Israel livid over new Hamas headquarters in Turkey

Jerusalem urges NATO to impose sanctions on Ankara after learning it let Hamas set up operational headquarters in Turkey • HQ said to be headed by arch-terrorist Saleh al-Arouri, believed to be behind dozens of attacks against Israelis.

 

This triangle of Turkey-Qatar-Hamas ...

How long can the west keep looking the other way?

 

Edited by DADI
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Security forces arrested more than 30 Hamas operatives suspected of involvement in plot uncovered in September.

The Shin Bet and IDF thwarted a large-scale, transnational Hamas terrorism network that was preparing to carry out an array of deadly attacks against Israelis.

It was cleared for publication on Thursday that the network planned to target the landmark Teddy soccer stadium in Jerusalem, the capital's light rail system, car bombings, and kidnappings of Israelis in the West Bank and overseas.

The nerve center of the network was situated in Hamas's headquarters in Turkey, the Shin Bet added. Additional intended targets included infiltrations into Israeli communities, shooting and bombing attacks against Israeli traffic and military targets in the West Bank, and setting up terrorist cells in Jordan in order to carry out cross-border attacks into Israel...

 

Lovely freedom fighters,,,

 

 

Erogan's Turkey has replaced Syria as the Hamas HQ..

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I expect that we will be told that muslims went first on the moon as well. muslims discovered the earth is a sphere 1.200 years ago.

 

http://www.hurriyetdailynews.com/muslims-discovered-earth-is-round-turkeys-science-minister-says.aspx?pageID=238&nID=74989&NewsCatID=338

Edited by Mistral
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So when does NATO start pulling his chAin. Turkey is not acting or sounding like an Allie. Maybe USA should close airbase. It's not like turkey will let u use it

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So when does NATO start pulling his chAin. Turkey is not acting or sounding like an Allie. Maybe USA should close airbase. It's not like turkey will let u use it

 

A few years back I've heard that on the Bulgarian coast, asset prices are peaking since Erdogan came to power...

The relatively new American Embassy in Sofia is massive...

 

People could read the map, up until...

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Ottoman language classes to be introduced ‘whatever they say,’ vows Erdoğan

President Recep Tayyip Erdoğan has waded into the heated debate over the possible inclusion of Ottoman language classes in the high school curriculum, vowing that the classes will be introduced “no matter what they say.”

 

“There are those who don’t want Ottoman [language] to be learned and taught. This is a very big danger,” Erdoğan said on Dec. 8, delivering a speech at “5th Religion Council” hosted by the Directorate General of Religious Affairs (Diyanet) in Ankara.

“Whether they want it or not, Ottoman [language] will be learned and taught in this country,” he pledged.

 

According to decisions taken by Turkey’s National Education Council, which closed its annual meeting over the weekend, Ottoman language classes will be compulsory for imam-hatip religious vocational high schools and elective for other high schools.

 

The ruling Justice and Development Party’s (AKP) apparent enthusiasm for the Ottoman language courses has been widely interpreted as a further sign of its wish to impose its particular interpretation of history and values in Turkey’s education system.

 

“There are those who are uneasy with this country’s children learning Ottoman. But it is actually nothing stranger than ‘ageless Turkish.’ With it, we will learn realities. They say, ‘Will we teach children how to read gravestones?’ But a history and a civilization is lying on those gravestones,” Erdoğan said.

 

The president also suggested that pressure on freedom of expression in this country “actually dates back to two centuries ago.”

 

“Since the Tanzimat up until today, for around last 200 years, certain issues could not be discussed freely, with self-confidence and courage,” Erdoğan said, referring to the Tanzimat reform era in the Ottoman Empire in the 19th century. “Let alone freely discussing matters of religion; religion and pious people were systematically subjected to all kinds of criticism, insult and abuse.”

 

Later in the day, Prime Minister Ahmet Davutoğlu accused the main opposition Republican People’s Party (CHP) of “acting with enmity toward their own history,” while also describing the debates over the Ottoman language courses as simply “a storm in a teacup.”

 

“The student who wants to choose [the Ottoman language class] can do so. The student who doesn’t want to, doesn’t choose it. This is the proposal. What is this allergy for history? What is this enmity for culture? It is not possible to understand,” Davutoğlu said.

 

In response, the CHP said Erdoğan did not have a problem only with the Republic or the principle of secularism, but rather a problem with the transformation that began in the 1800s in the Ottoman era.

 

“You will on the one hand speak about science and technology, while on the other hand you will make irrelevant 18th and 19th century decisions. Even the Ottomans would not make these decisions,” CHP Deputy Parliamentary Group Chair Akif Hamzaçebi said at a press conference later on Dec. 8.

 

“The transformation that the Ottoman [Empire] carried out from the beginning of the 1800s is a transformation that he [Erdoğan] could not accept,” Hamzaçebi added."

 

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"Hamas leader Mashaal endorses Turkish leaders in surprise speech

 

Khaled Mashaal, the head of Hamas’ political bureau, has made a surprise appearance at an event of Turkey's ruling party, endorsing the Turkish leaders and voicing his hope to "liberate Palestine and Jerusalem" together with them in the future.

"A strong Turkey means a strong Palestine ... Inshallah, God is with us and with you on the road to victory," Mashaal said in his address to the Justice and Development Party's (AKP) annual congress in the Konya province on Dec. 27..."

 

 

 

Well,

Now that Hamas is watching how Qatar is moved to full co-operation with SA and Egypt, while Hamas leaders in Gaza prase Egypt and A-Sisi (hoping he will somehow forget that they are "Muslim Brotherhood") - Mashal is looking for a new sponsor - And who is better that the Sultan..

Edited by DADI
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Erdogan slams Netanyahu for attending Paris rally

Turkish president says Israeli prime minister must first answer for Gaza crimes, accuses Europeans of hypocrisy over anti-Muslim attacks.

 

Speaking alongside visiting Palestinian President Mahmoud Abbas, Erdogan attacked the Israeli leader's conduct and policies. "How can a man who has killed 25,000 people in Gaza with state terrorism wave his hand in Paris, like people are waiting in excitement for him to do so? How dare he go there?"

"You should first give an account for the children and the women you have killed," added Erdogan, who has been an outspoken critic of Israeli offensives against Hamas in the Strip, despite close commercial ties between Israel and Turkey.

Erdogan, who did not attend the Sunday march, accused the West on Monday of hypocrisy for its stance over the attacks, though Turkish Prime Minister Ahmet Davutoglu did participate in the rally.

"The West's hypocrisy is obvious. As Muslims, we've never taken part in terrorist massacres. Behind these lie racism, hate speech and Islamophobia," Erdogan said. "Please, the administrations in those countries where our mosques are attacked need to take measures.

http://www.ynetnews.com/articles/0,7340,L-4614409,00.html

 

 

Sultan on the roll again.

Edited by urbanoid
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