Damian Posted September 22, 2014 Posted September 22, 2014 It seems that US Army plans silently some sort of modernization for M2 IFV's. This looks like Kongsberg unmanned turret, same turret is tested on the new Stryker APC variant.Such turret improves a lot, have better main armament (30mm automatic cannon instead of 25mm automatic cannon on the standard turret), but also does not take space inside the hull, so M2 will be capable to carry 3 crew members, and perhaps 9 dismounts.
Sovngard Posted September 22, 2014 Posted September 22, 2014 Only 30 mm ?I hoped to see 35 mm or even 50 Supershot given that the current trend is above or equal to 35 mm.
Damian Posted September 22, 2014 Author Posted September 22, 2014 35/50mm can be installed in this turret if nececary.
Sovngard Posted September 22, 2014 Posted September 22, 2014 35/50mm can be installed in this turret if nececary. I hope so.
Damian Posted September 22, 2014 Author Posted September 22, 2014 30mm Mk44 as far as I know, also can be upgraded to 40mm if I am not mistaken.
Yalmuk Posted September 22, 2014 Posted September 22, 2014 (edited) How much space 35mm rounds take when compared to 30mm? I did read from one book that Bradley armed with 25mm could carry 300 ready rounds and experimental one with Mk44 30mm could carry 180 ready rounds. Edited September 22, 2014 by Yalmuk
CV9030FIN Posted September 23, 2014 Posted September 23, 2014 (edited) 30mm Mk44 as far as I know, also can be upgraded to 40mm if I am not mistaken.You are right. Bushmaster II is 30/40mm similarily as Bushmaster III is 35/50mm Edited September 23, 2014 by CV9030FIN
Ken Estes Posted September 23, 2014 Posted September 23, 2014 The USMC had already opted for the 40mm in its recently failed EFV program.
Panzermann Posted September 23, 2014 Posted September 23, 2014 They did? The Bushmaster II has the option through barrel change, but I thought they would just draw on the USN's and USAF's stocks of 30 mm, because the USMC tries to do.it cheap most of the time.
ChuckFan4 Posted September 23, 2014 Posted September 23, 2014 Only 30 mm ?I hoped to see 35 mm or even 50 Supershot given that the current trend is above or equal to 35 mm. The Germans opted for 30mm in their new Puma IFV. They specifically avoided larger options like 40 mm bofor, believing more ammo is more important than round size.
EchoFiveMike Posted September 23, 2014 Posted September 23, 2014 Projectile size and mass is more important than velocity here IMO. That turret appears to be part of this project, which also includes the 35/50 Bushmaster 3. S/F....Ken M http://www.dtic.mil/ndia/2014armaments/Wed16537_LeFante.pdf
shep854 Posted September 23, 2014 Posted September 23, 2014 With the commander buried in the hull,it appears that he will be dependent on electronic sensors. How will this work in the Real WorldTM?
Damian Posted September 23, 2014 Author Posted September 23, 2014 Ask me when we induct in to service our Rosomak APC with new unmanned turret, maybe I will have some informations, as seems the concept is the same.
CV9030FIN Posted September 23, 2014 Posted September 23, 2014 (edited) With the commander buried in the hull,it appears that he will be dependent on electronic sensors. How will this work in the Real WorldTM? IMO with my 15 years of AFV experience; it won't in closed terrain. Edited September 23, 2014 by CV9030FIN
Mr King Posted September 23, 2014 Posted September 23, 2014 Are they eliminating the TOW missile from the Bradley with a unmanned turret?
CV9030FIN Posted September 23, 2014 Posted September 23, 2014 (edited) Only 30 mm ?I hoped to see 35 mm or even 50 Supershot given that the current trend is above or equal to 35 mm. The Germans opted for 30mm in their new Puma IFV. They specifically avoided larger options like 40 mm bofor, believing more ammo is more important than round size. Bofors L/70 canon should not be an option to anyone... it is old design with is clumsy feed system and work heavy user maintenance. Chain gun type auto-canons have permanently taken over older designs like L/70 or L21A1. Edited September 23, 2014 by CV9030FIN
Olof Larsson Posted September 23, 2014 Posted September 23, 2014 Only 30 mm ?I hoped to see 35 mm or even 50 Supershot given that the current trend is above or equal to 35 mm. The Germans opted for 30mm in their new Puma IFV. They specifically avoided larger options like 40 mm bofor, believing more ammo is more important than round size. ISTR that was about A-400M-compatibility. The previous Marder II, developed for proper war,(rather than having to be shoehorned into transports for colonial policing)was supposed to have a 35mm.
Chris Werb Posted September 23, 2014 Posted September 23, 2014 Ken are you sure the EFV was 40mm? I thought it was 30mm and shared a chambering with ATK 30mm cannon on your warships?
CV9030FIN Posted September 23, 2014 Posted September 23, 2014 At least EFV protos in pics I've seen were armed with 30mm Mk44 Bushmaster II.
Sovngard Posted September 23, 2014 Posted September 23, 2014 (edited) IMO with my 15 years of AFV experience; it won't in closed terrain. That reminds me the great debate that there has been when the Dragar one-man turret was chosen for the VBCI. The commander still has the MOP thermal panoramic sight but it's not as good old as a cupola to look at the surrounding. Bofors L/70 canon should not be an option to anyone... it is old design with is clumsy feed system and work heavy user maintenance. Chain gun type auto-canons have permanently taken over older designs like L/70 or L21A1. The Franco-British CT40 could be considered as its successor ? ISTR that was about A-400M-compatibility. The previous Marder II, developed for proper war,(rather than having to be shoehorned into transports for colonial policing)was supposed to have a 35mm. I don't think that the 35 mm was a major concern for the SPz Puma since the unmanned turret had already met the weight requirement. Edited September 23, 2014 by Sovngard
Panzermann Posted September 23, 2014 Posted September 23, 2014 (edited) Only 30 mm ?I hoped to see 35 mm or even 50 Supershot given that the current trend is above or equal to 35 mm.The Germans opted for 30mm in their new Puma IFV. They specifically avoided larger options like 40 mm bofor, believing more ammo is more important than round size. Bofors L/70 canon should not be an option to anyone... it is old design with is clumsy feed system and work heavy user maintenance. Chain gun type auto-canons have permanently taken over older designs like L/70 or L21A1.Makes me wonder why South Korea opted for the L/70 in their K-21 NIFV? The Bushmaster III is avaiable for how long now? Though I must say the koreans designed a nifty loading mechanism for it. Edited September 23, 2014 by Panzermann
Nikolas93TS Posted September 23, 2014 Posted September 23, 2014 Just an educated guess, more reliable destruction of hordes of T-55/T-62s S. Korea is most likely to encounter in future conflicts?
JW Collins Posted September 24, 2014 Posted September 24, 2014 Yet there is a Bushmaster IV in the full sized 40mm caliber on the market, although maybe that appeared after the K21 was designed.
shep854 Posted September 24, 2014 Posted September 24, 2014 (edited) With the commander buried in the hull,it appears that he will be dependent on electronic sensors. How will this work in the Real WorldTM? IMO with my 15 years of AFV experience; it won't in closed terrain.I remember Manic Moran posting the same misgivings a few years back. Edited September 24, 2014 by shep854
Simon Tan Posted September 24, 2014 Posted September 24, 2014 Stop thinking KE and start thinking HE. And none of this fancy airburst stuff. Just a good dual mode delay/superquick with backup manual fuse setting. AP is just TP.
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