Soviet Afghanistan Conflict

[Mr King]

Soviet raid on a mujaheddin compound. Ends with a pretty spectacular blast.

 

http://youtu.be/BU1dUpdBY04

[RETAC21]

Looks staged to me, no return fire and the helos arent firing flares, which woul have been SOP in 88.

[Mr King]

Looks staged to me, no return fire and the helos arent firing flares, which woul have been SOP in 88.

 

That is a good point.

[mnm]

Here's looking at yoooooou!

 

Edited September 6, 2014 by mnm

[urbanoid]

Yeah, on the other hand those Hinds...

 

Few years ago there's been some 'celebration' in 'Polish area', there was a lot of our military personnel and locals, when suddenly few of our Hinds made a low pass above. I heard that older Afghans almost shat their pants.

Edited September 6, 2014 by urbanoid

[Mr King]

[bojan]

Song from Soviet Afghan war, "Over the Mountains Helicopters Fly"

Videois from "Afghan Breakdown" movie, but can fool people often (movie is quite authentic, it was made in Turkmenistan with extras being troops just withdrawn from Afghanistan, village blown apart in the end is one of "training villages" etc.).

http://youtu.be/bANlOGu47CI

[LeoTanker]

@RETAC:

 

At 2.02 one can see that the helo actually does pop (some) flares. Could still be a staged vid thogh offcourse, but..

[Corinthian]

Yeah, on the other hand those Hinds...

 

Few years ago there's been some 'celebration' in 'Polish area', there was a lot of our military personnel and locals, when suddenly few of our Hinds made a low pass above. I heard that older Afghans almost shat their pants.

 

[Archie Pellagio]

Yeah, on the other hand those Hinds...

 

Few years ago there's been some 'celebration' in 'Polish area', there was a lot of our military personnel and locals, when suddenly few of our Hinds made a low pass above. I heard that older Afghans almost shat their pants.

Same thing happened to one of the old British guys I work with, spent a few years patrolling the border in Germany in the 80s getting ready for the red storm to rise, then in the ghan one day a pair of Afghan hinds flies over them. Reckons he almost dove for cover thinking they were ruskies.

[MiloMorai]

[Mr King]

[Roman Alymov]

 

Videois from "Afghan Breakdown" movie, but can fool people often (movie is quite authentic, it was made in Turkmenistan with extras being troops just withdrawn from Afghanistan, village blown apart in the end is one of "training villages" etc.).

http://youtu.be/bANlOGu47CI

This film is often believed to be best ever made about this far (probably will remain the best since it was filmed with people and mood of the time, no way to make it again)

Another song vidoe clip based on the same film

 

Film on-line http://tfilm.tv/9343-afganskiy-izlom.html

 

About relations Soviet\Russians vs. Afghans – there are many reports on Afghans considering Russians as sort of “good enemy” since Soviets, basing on centuries-old experience with the region and very limited cultural and technological gap, where sort of understandable and close to Afghans.

Football match between Soviet and Mojahed veterans in Kabul, followed by Soviet veteran visiting his Afghan friends in their mountain villages (and paying $100 to clear snow out from memorial to fallen soviet soldiers). Then plants once build by Soviets…

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RjZ-sR74e-I

[Roman Alymov]

It probably says less about how well the Soviets were thought of during the war, than about how adept Afghans are at reinventing their own history, the memory of the 'Good' war.

 

I think they just do not have European tradition of demonizing enemy (and even for Europe it is relatively new, dating back probably to WWI propaganda efforts).

[Murph]

If the Soviets could not civilize this place, and drag it out of the 7th century, why did we have the hubris to think we could do better?

[Marek Tucan]

I once had 5-6 of the buggers fly over my house. Turned out it was the Czech Air Force display team over for IAT, but for a couple of minutes I was distinctly concerned.

Well, when TN contingent was going (behind schedule, as always) to Bahna mil. event and we had a flight of Hinds crossing the landscape in front of our cars, the airwaves lit up with suggestions to disperse our 3-car convoy

[Roman Alymov]

If the Soviets could not civilize this place, and drag it out of the 7th century, why did we have the hubris to think we could do better?

I do not think “civilize” is right word - Central Asia got own civilization, different from West. From Tajik clan working in our summer house region for last 10 years at least one guy is specialist in Farsi poetry, educated by Teheran university – who am I to consider him uncivilized, even if he works as illegal migrant here in Russia? Soviets managed to change Soviet Central Asia before WWII – with great deal of lives lost from both sides and two decades to reach results – with outside opposition limited to minor British efforts (continuation of “Big Game” containment). The same was possible in Afghanistan, but this time opposing side was too powerful with US providing assistance to traditionalists.

[alejandro_]

I do not think “civilize” is right word - Central Asia got own civilization, different from West.

 

At some point USSR Central Republics were considered a model for other Muslim countries in the region. Rodric Braitwaite mentions it in his book on the Afghanistan War.

Edited September 15, 2014 by alejandro_

[Mr King]

[Mr King]

Soviets interrogating a mujaheddin

 

[alejandro_]

Note Adidas shoes wore by guy in front in prisoner...

[Gavin-Phillips]

I managed to pick up the Afghansky Izlom/Afghan Breakdown movie on DVD a couple of years back on eBay and I found it to be a pretty decent watch. There was none of this "hero" type movie that you see alot of at the cinema, just soldiers trying to survive whilst following orders. I was unaware of the fact real soldiers were used as extras, especially the fact they were Afghanistan veterans! I wonder what they thought about a movie being made about the war they'd just been part of?

 

Regarding the first clip, that almost looked like a small mushroom cloud! Neat smoke circle! I did see a few flares being fired by the Mi-8's but curiously none by the Mi-24's which does seem a little strange. Good footage of the BMP's though.

 

The music inspired by Afghanistan (and war experiences in general) does seem to be most thought provoking even though I can understand barely a word of it. I do believe my favourite song so far is called Bronezhilet (roughly translated as Body Armour). Its a curious thing to listen to music you can't understand the words to, but the mood is all too evident.

[bojan]

Gavin:

Monologue of the Black Tulip's pilot*

In Afghanistan,

In the “Black Tulip"

With vodka in a glass

We are quietly floating over the earth.

A mournful bird

Across the border,

To the Russian dawns

It carries the boys home.

In the Black Tulip

Those, who from their assignments

Are going to the dear Motherland

To lie into the earth,

Into an endless vacation,

Torn to tatters

They will never, never

Hug warm shoulders.

When into the oasis of Jelalabad,

With a broken wing our Tulip fell,

We cursed our work:

Again Pasha** has let the company

In Shindande, Khandahar and Bagram

Again we must place a heavy stone on our souls,

Again we must carry heroes back to the Motherland,

20 year olds for whom graves are being dug,

20 year olds for whom graves are being dug.

But we must make it,

We must pull together.

If we fail,

We can get hit even here.

The mountains are shooting.

Stinger is being launched

If we get hit,

The boys will die a second time.

And so we fly not like when we were home,

Where there is no war and everything is familiar,

Where pilots see bodies once a year,

Where helicopters don't fall from the clouds.

And so we fly, our jaws clenched in anger,

With vodka wetting our dry lips

The caravans keep coming from Pakistan,

That means, there is work for the Tulip

That means, there is work for the Tulip

*Black Tulip was a plane bringing bodies back to USSR. Claim is that it was named so after Tashkent funeral company that supplied caskets.

**Afghan attached to Soviet army unit.

Caravan

Unused to the silence at all

At war, at war, at war

Silence is only a lie, just a lie

On a twisted path

In a stranger's land

We are going to get a caravan again

Caravan - It is the joy of victory and the pain of loss,

Caravan - I'm waiting to meet you

Caravan - In the blood torn Afghanistan apart

Caravan, Caravan, Caravan

Unused to the civil life at all

Over there, all was clear, there's a friend and a foe

But here, it's hard to see the souls of people

Like through the fog

And it's a pity my friend isn't here

He was taken by the caravan forever

Caravan - It's a flask of water and without it, you're dead

Caravan - it means you CAN

Caravan - kill the "shuravi"* says the Quran

Caravan, Caravan, Caravan

Unused that my shoulder is no longer

Weighed down by the AKM

Roadside bushes not being mined,

There are no "Dukhi**" gangs here

But somewhere over there,

In my footsteps,

Someone's taking on caravan again

The caravan - it's a hundred shells that will miss a mark

The caravan - it's a salt on your face

The caravan - Third toast will be silent

You survived or you died

Caravan, caravan, caravan.

*term used by mujaheddin for Soviets.

**term used for mujaheddin

Edited September 23, 2014 by bojan

[crazyinsane105]

If the Soviets could not civilize this place, and drag it out of the 7th century, why did we have the hubris to think we could do better?

 

Quite an ignorant thing to say especially if you know nothing about the history of Afghanistan prior to the war...

 

http://www.businessinsider.com/astonishing-photos-of-prewar-afghanistan-show-everyday-life-in-peaceful-kabul-2013-2?op=1

 

You can't just put a country through nearly three decades of conflict and expect its moderate culture to survive. When the Soviets invaded and the fighting against them started, anybody that had any money or an education probably left. The only folks who stayed behind were those who were too poor or too nationalistic to leave, and hence are in charge of Afghanistan right now. Happens in any country that goes through years of brutal warfare, not just Afghanistan.

[Marcello]

 

If the Soviets could not civilize this place, and drag it out of the 7th century, why did we have the hubris to think we could do better?

 

Quite an ignorant thing to say especially if you know nothing about the history of Afghanistan prior to the war...

 

http://www.businessinsider.com/astonishing-photos-of-prewar-afghanistan-show-everyday-life-in-peaceful-kabul-2013-2?op=1

 

You can't just put a country through nearly three decades of conflict and expect its moderate culture to survive. When the Soviets invaded and the fighting against them started, anybody that had any money or an education probably left. The only folks who stayed behind were those who were too poor or too nationalistic to leave, and hence are in charge of Afghanistan right now. Happens in any country that goes through years of brutal warfare, not just Afghanistan.

 

 

One should not assume that the secular types in Kabul were representative of the country at large. While some advances had been made here and there the countryside was pretty backward, tribal and very much steeped into islamic culture. Women were "moderately" stoned without too much of a fuss in the 70's. The wars made things worse, but the basic nature of the country was and is still that.

Edited September 23, 2014 by Marcello