In Syria

[Roman Alymov]

The radical wing of IS? How would you characterize the rest of the organization?

Significant part of ISIS activity is money-centric, despite of their ideological claims. Not clear if they want more money to use money as weapon later, or just to take them and go to nice place (probably both motives exist, as it is big organization with lot of people). Some IS fighters of ex-USSR background are now going home on “now it is too dangerous to fight on IS side” and “they can’t pay us as much as once used to” basis.

[Roman Alymov]

 

 

 

 

Mig-29 was a disappointment. Too expensive for a light fighter.

Su-27 gave much more performance with little more cost.

Central part of MIG-29 fuselage is technological nightmare, single tank\frame of welded titanium – I still remember it on display in our university aviation technology laboratory . Su-27 is much more traditional riveted airplane, and MUCH bigger (allowing lots of equipment to be installed).

Now technology is way more advanced than in early 1980th, so at least adequate electronic equipment could be fit into MIG-29.

[Josh]

MiG-29 is a frontal 'light' fighter. SU-27 series is a long-endurance heavy fighter. The SU-27 series could not take off with a full load of gas and weapons, it had so much internal tankage. For long transfers, it takes off then tops up.

 

But the role of the Kuz as originally envisioned was specifically not strike. In fact the role of the MiG-29 strikes me as exactly what was envisioned for the Kuz - short range point defense. Does the Su-27 series have a very significant range advantage over the 29 given that it can't carry its full fuel load (EDIT: from a CV STOL launch) anyway? How much more capable is the Su when used that way compared to the MiG, given that it seems very likely a significantly larger number of MiGs could be carried?

Edited January 10, 2017 by Josh

[Yama]

 

That thing is gimongous, longer than both the F-4 and F-14 and just a few cm shorter than the FB-111.

I'm curious why the Russians didn't go with the MiG29 all along? The Chinese I know didn't have a choice; if they wanted something produced domestically with sufficient T:W ratio and slow enough stall speed there basically wasn't anything else in inventory. But given the lack of hanger space on the Kuz, why weren't 29's the first choice?

 

Original plan was to have both, in mix analogous to contemporary Tomcat/Hornet mix on US carriers. After all they foresaw quite a signifant carrier fleet, IIRC no less than four Ulyanovsk type carriers were planned so two different types could be acquired in meaningful numbers.

But USSR began to collapse right in the middle of Tbilisi trials and it gradually dawned to Navy that they might only afford one type. MiG-29K is based on MiG-29M and is essetially a new aircraft. As Roman said, airframe is welded together whereas baseline MiG-29 has riveted structure. Also flight controls, avionics, engine were different from basic MiG-29. If Navy was to order MiG-29K, they would have to set up whole new assembly line which could only produce MiG-29K and -M, and there were no orders planned for latter. By contrast, Su-33 was modified baseline Flanker and could be assembled on regular Sukhoi assembly lines. Also, it had more powerful radar, which is signifant as AEW aircraft was cancelled.

 

Everything changed with Vikramaditya deal, with Indian funds development of MiG-29K could be finished (it originally never completed State Acceptance Trials) and new line set up. Indirectly it also meant new life for MiG-29M, aka. MiG-35.

 

Su-33 has quite aggressive wing fold, even tailplanes and tailcone can be folded so that mitigates the size problem somewhat. Rafale M, for example, has no wing fold at all.

 

[Yama]

 

MiG-29 is a frontal 'light' fighter. SU-27 series is a long-endurance heavy fighter. The SU-27 series could not take off with a full load of gas and weapons, it had so much internal tankage. For long transfers, it takes off then tops up.

But the role of the Kuz as originally envisioned was specifically not strike. In fact the role of the MiG-29 strikes me as exactly what was envisioned for the Kuz - short range point defense. Does the Su-27 series have a very significant range advantage over the 29 given that it can't carry its full fuel load (EDIT: from a CV STOL launch) anyway? How much more capable is the Su when used that way compared to the MiG, given that it seems very likely a significantly larger number of MiGs could be carried?

 

It is said that Su-33 can take off from 105 metre position with ~27 ton takeoff weight (basically, full fuel load but no external weapons, or reduced fuel load & A2A weapons load). From 195 metre position it can take off at maximum 33 ton TOW.

MiG-29K is very different bird from basic MiG-29, it has almost 50% more internal fuel and with three external tanks actually outranges Su-33 (but obviously with much smaller weapons load).

[mattblack]

That thing is gimongous, longer than both the F-4 and F-14 and just a few cm shorter than the FB-111.

 

Which of course was supposed to be an enormous carrier based interceptor too.

[Josh]

 

Original plan was to have both, in mix analogous to contemporary Tomcat/Hornet mix on US carriers. After all they foresaw quite a signifant carrier fleet, IIRC no less than four Ulyanovsk type carriers were planned so two different types could be acquired in meaningful numbers.

But USSR began to collapse right in the middle of Tbilisi trials and it gradually dawned to Navy that they might only afford one type. MiG-29K is based on MiG-29M and is essetially a new aircraft. As Roman said, airframe is welded together whereas baseline MiG-29 has riveted structure. Also flight controls, avionics, engine were different from basic MiG-29. If Navy was to order MiG-29K, they would have to set up whole new assembly line which could only produce MiG-29K and -M, and there were no orders planned for latter. By contrast, Su-33 was modified baseline Flanker and could be assembled on regular Sukhoi assembly lines. Also, it had more powerful radar, which is signifant as AEW aircraft was cancelled.

 

Everything changed with Vikramaditya deal, with Indian funds development of MiG-29K could be finished (it originally never completed State Acceptance Trials) and new line set up. Indirectly it also meant new life for MiG-29M, aka. MiG-35.

 

Su-33 has quite aggressive wing fold, even tailplanes and tailcone can be folded so that mitigates the size problem somewhat. Rafale M, for example, has no wing fold at all.

 

 

 

Ah thanks for that. In particular I didn't realize the MiG differed that thoroughly. I guess the Super bugs are similar in that regard. Also the fold of the Su is interesting; I can't think of any other a/c that folds its tail planes. You're sure the tail *cone* folds as well? That seems...surprising, to say the least.

[Daan]

 

 

Rafale M, for example, has no wing fold at all.

 

Folding wings would certainly have improved the stowability of the Rafale M, but the small delta shape without a long nose makes it quite easy to park these aircraft closely together in the hangar:

 

 

Edited January 10, 2017 by Daan

[Roman Alymov]

 

 

Ah thanks for that. In particular I didn't realize the MiG differed that thoroughly. I guess the Super bugs are similar in that regard. Also the fold of the Su is interesting; I can't think of any other a/c that folds its tail planes. You're sure the tail *cone* folds as well? That seems...surprising, to say the least.

 

Not exactly "tail *cone* folds" as it is parachute container cover on Su-27; but may be it is possible to gain extra unches by leaving it open\"folded" if this mechanism still exist on Su-33 (i am not sure it is)

[Yama]

Hmm, now after quick check, I didn't find any pics of Su-33 with folded tail sting. It is modelled in scale models, but those might be erraneous. Maybe they just shortened the 'stinger' for Su-33.

 

Sukhoi designers were acutely aware of their fighters size disadvantage and wanted to make sure that its folded wingspan was smaller than MiG-29. Of course it brought some downsides regarding loads etc but it was not a big deal for an air defence fighter.

[Stuart Galbraith]

If anyone is interested in the development of Su33, well worth picking up the Andrey Fomin book on the Flanker, well worth a read.

https://www.amazon.co.uk/Su-27-Flanker-Story-Andrei-Fomin/dp/B001884HDO/ref=sr_1_72?ie=UTF8&qid=1484301990&sr=8-72&keywords=su27

 

Russia commits to putting more aircraft into Syria, after saying it was reducing forces.

http://www.foxnews.com/world/2017/01/11/russia-steps-up-military-presence-in-syria-despite-putin-promise.html

[Roman Alymov]

Pictorial “tourist guide” for Rus servicemen in Syria

[Stuart Galbraith]

Im disappointed to see they didnt have a 'dont' for juggling Vodka bottles.

[Roman Alymov]

Russia commits to putting more aircraft into Syria, after saying it was reducing forces.

http://www.foxnews.com/world/2017/01/11/russia-steps-up-military-presence-in-syria-despite-putin-promise.html

It is not clear if this Su-25s are going there to be part of RusAF group or as part of SyrianAF (as replacement of aging fleet of Mig-21 etc). Anyway it is reduction since Kuznetsov group moving out.

Su-25 proved to be the best plane for Syrian conditions: it could be back in flight half an hour after lending, and since most of missions are dropping bombs on fixed targets defined by Syrian intelligence, using GPS coordinates - almost no complicated electronics required.

[Roman Alymov]

Im disappointed to see they didnt have a 'dont' for juggling Vodka bottles.

This particular copy is coming from ethnic Chechen now serving in Syria, so most likely they are not supposed to have alcohol abuse problem as Muslims (while in reality Chechens are also prone to it – as indicated by recent drunk driving incident in Chechnya when 7 people died, including entire family with kids in one of cars and driver&his son in another, causing Kadyrov to step out with demands for tough punishment for drunk driving and closing all alcohol shops in Chechnya)

[Dark_Falcon]

 

Im disappointed to see they didnt have a 'dont' for juggling Vodka bottles.

This particular copy is coming from ethnic Chechen now serving in Syria, so most likely they are not supposed to have alcohol abuse problem as Muslims (while in reality Chechens are also prone to it – as indicated by recent drunk driving incident in Chechnya when 7 people died, including entire family with kids in one of cars and driver&his son in another, causing Kadyrov to step out with demands for tough punishment for drunk driving and closing all alcohol shops in Chechnya)

 

 

Mr. Kadyrov should read up on how badly Prohibition failed in the US before he tries it in Chechnya. Punishing drunk drivers is good and needed, but alcohol prohibition will fail and fail badly.

[Stuart Galbraith]

 

Im disappointed to see they didnt have a 'dont' for juggling Vodka bottles.

This particular copy is coming from ethnic Chechen now serving in Syria, so most likely they are not supposed to have alcohol abuse problem as Muslims (while in reality Chechens are also prone to it – as indicated by recent drunk driving incident in Chechnya when 7 people died, including entire family with kids in one of cars and driver&his son in another, causing Kadyrov to step out with demands for tough punishment for drunk driving and closing all alcohol shops in Chechnya)

 

No offense intended Roman. I was joking.

[Roman Alymov]

 

 

Mr. Kadyrov should read up on how badly Prohibition failed in the US before he tries it in Chechnya. Punishing drunk drivers is good and needed, but alcohol prohibition will fail and fail badly.

 

Well, actually he (Kadyrov) is in tough fight not only against alcohol abuse, but also against drugs among young Chechens (below is long video of him personally lecturing drug addicts and their relatives). Despite all traditional dislike to Chechens, he got good chances to become one of the most popular politicians in Russia one day

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cw7UmV4_sk4

[Panzermann]

I think Kadyrov is popular in the rest of russia, exactly because he is unpopular in chehcenya.

 

 

---

 

back to Syria. SAA says The Evil Juice squeezes rockets from lake Gennesaret or jet delivered bombs (reports disagree) at Mezzeh airfield :

 

New Israeli missile attack on Mezzeh military airport west of Damascus

13 January ، 2017

Damascus, SANA The air force of the Israeli enemy hit al-Mezzeh military airport west of Damascus just after midnight.

A military source told SANA that several missiles were fired from the Lake Tiberias area and landed in the surroundings of al-Mezzeh airport at 12:25 after midnight, causing a fire to erupt.

The source said the new Israeli attack came in support of the terrorist organizations to raise their morale.

The General Command of the Army and the Armed Forces has warned the Israeli enemy of the repercussions of this flagrant attack, said the source.

The Command pledged to continue its war on terrorism until eliminating it and cutting off the arms supporting it, the source added.

Al-Mezzeh military airport came under a similar Israeli attack on December 7 of last year, where several ground-to-ground missiles were fired from inside the occupied Palestinian territories to the west of Tall Abu al-Nada (hill).The missiles hit near the airport and caused a fire to break out but no casualties.

H. Said

from: http://sana.sy/en/?p=98200

 

 

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2017/01/13/syrian-army-says-israel-fires-rockets-military-airport-near/

 

http://21stcenturywire.com/2017/01/12/israel-violates-syrian-airspace-bombs-ammunition-depot-in-mazzeh-damascus/

 

allegedly a video (not much to see)

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-erTAOD5bSU

 

 

IDF is politlely silent and does not comment foreign military reports:

 

http://www.timesofisrael.com/syria-strike-blamed-on-israel-said-to-kill-regime-officials/

 

Syrian Army Accuses Israel of Attacking Strategic Military Airport Near Damascus

Syrian army command says Israel fired rockets at air base, warns or repercussions over 'flagrant' attack. (ha'aretz)

 

 

in 2013 there has been an attack on Mazzeh too:

Syria blast at Mezzeh military airport in Damascus (BBC News)

 

http://www.reuters.com/article/2013/06/16/us-syria-crisis-airport-idUSBRE95F0GI20130616

 

 

and in december last year Israel has been accused of an attack: http://sana.sy/en/?p=98200

 

 

Most probably an ammunitions depot has been targeted that serves Hezbollah and Iranian Republican Guards.

[Roman Alymov]

I think Kadyrov is popular in the rest of russia, exactly because he is unpopular in chehcenya.

 

 

 

Kadyrov is popular in Chechnya. Another question is how long could he stay popular without financial & political support from Moscow.

Anyway he is working hard to improve his image and to “soften” it. For example he personally trained leading Russian (ethnic Armenian) standup comedian to mimic him

Training

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j0xg38P5EqI

Result

[ink]

Apparently Iran is trying to repopulate former Sunni areas with Shia:

 

https://www.google.rs/amp/s/amp.theguardian.com/world/2017/jan/13/irans-syria-project-pushing-population-shifts-to-increase-influence?client=ms-android-lenovo

[Roman Alymov]

Apparently Iran is trying to repopulate former Sunni areas with Shia:

 

Not sure if it is related, but Hezbala is rumored to be buying property around Rus base in Syria - may be just to have safe haven where Israel is not going to bomb them....

[Colin]

Apparently Iran is trying to repopulate former Sunni areas with Shia:

 

https://www.google.rs/amp/s/amp.theguardian.com/world/2017/jan/13/irans-syria-project-pushing-population-shifts-to-increase-influence?client=ms-android-lenovo

Not surprising at all, Saddam did the same thing in Kurdish areas, frankly forcing refugees to resettle in certain areas so populations don't mix may be the only way to get some peace in the region.

[Roman Alymov]

Rus TV reports from Aleppo, notr "Taifun" used as food transporter

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vaSyLEbDYk0

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lDlAEt7SNfE

[Roman Alymov]

Syria self-recovery in process