In Syria

[Roman Alymov]

Its one of them Italian-upgraded ones (TURMS-T).

Thank you! Strange they still got early-type side protection....

[Josh]

That looks like an Iranian Fateh 110 missile nose. The Iskander and Tochka do not have forward fins.

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fateh-110#/media/File:Fateh_110_2012.jpg

 

Sure? The grid fins look distinctly Russian. Does the Fateh use them as well?

 

EDIT: nevermind looks like someone else ID'd it.

Edited January 26, 2016 by Josh

[DavidDCM]

 

Its one of them Italian-upgraded ones (TURMS-T).

Thank you! Strange they still got early-type side protection....

 

 

You're welcome.

Each of the upgraded tanks kept its armour, so the one above was an original T-72 with optical rangefinder before the upgrade. Hence the gill side skirts. The Syrians put that upgrade on a rather random selection of tanks instead of putting it on just one specific T-72 version. So some are T-72, some are T-72M1, some have ERA, some do not. No rhyme or reason, so it seems.

[Panzermann]

I think I read somewhere that thevTURMS-T equipped tanks were intended for company and regimental commanders, so when the unit had T-72M1 that one got the improvements. If it was bare T-72 that one received TURMS-T

[DavidDCM]

Thank you for that information, Panzermann. That could be the answer to that question. Spreading your one decent type of tank as thinnly as possible throughout your army seems like a spectacularly ineffective approach. By making sure that they have some minimal impact everywhere you pretty much make sure they will have significant impact nowhere.

[Josh]

Sounds like something an arab officer corps would do, quit honestly.

[Chris Werb]

I wonder if the RusAF has the same radar directed bombing the USAF had. Pretty accurate all weather stuff.

 

 

 

That's a really interesting point Simon, but in these days of GPS/GLONASS, precisely known target locations (in VN maps could be 300 metres out!) and very weapon delivery computers, I would think really good met data to input would make more difference than anything - assuming the bomber's computer could take into account different wind conditions at varying altitudes. Anyway, a fascinating piece of history!

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Combat_Skyspot

 

By the way, I hadn't read this before:

 

On 12 January, CIA spotters reported a four aircraft formation flying in the direction of Lima Site 85. They were Soviet-made Antonov An-2 biplanes. Two aircraft continued towards Lima Site 85, while the others turned away.^[9] The Vietnam People's Air Force, in one of its few air attacks during the conflict, tried to destroy the radar at Lima Site 85. The An-2s flew over Phou Pha Thi, and their crewmen dropped 120 mm mortar shells through the aircraft's floor and then strafed their targets with 57 mm rockets mounted on the wing pods.^[10] As they repeatedly attacked the facility, ground fire heavily damaged one AN-2, and it crashed into a mountainside. By now, CIA officers and U.S. controllers at Lima Site 85 had managed to contact an Air America helicopter, which was faster than the Soviet-made biplanes. The Huey pilot of the sighted the remaining An-2, and promptly gave chase. As he pulled alongside, a crew member armed with an assault rifle opened fire and caused the biplane to crash into a ridge.^[11]

 

^{https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_Lima_Site_85}

[Dark_Falcon]

Thank you for that information, Panzermann. That could be the answer to that question. Spreading your one decent type of tank as thinnly as possible throughout your army seems like a spectacularly ineffective approach. By making sure that they have some minimal impact everywhere you pretty much make sure they will have significant impact nowhere.

 

This may be another possibility:

 

 

Interestingly, all the TURMS-T equipped tanks in Syria got the 'S' added to their designation, resulting in T-79S/T-72S, T-82S/T-72AVS and T-92S/T-72M1S. While this may seem confusing at first hand, the 'S' stands for Saroukh (صاروخ) meaning missile, indicating all are capable of launching the 9M119(M) guided anti-tank missile through their barrel. 1500 of such missiles were believed to have been acquired in 2005. None have been seen in captured T-72 TURMS-Ts however, likely because the need for 9M119(M)s in the Syrian Civil War is minimal and all remain stored in depots.

 

Here's a photo from the linked-to article with the TURMS-T system installed on what appears to be a first-model T-72 (based on the turret):

 

 

It's possible these tanks were also seen as 'snipers', remaining at range to fire their ATGMs while their fellow T-72s moved forward. With 122 out of approximately 700 Syrian T-72s having been given this upgrade that would work out to about 2 such missile tanks per company. So having the company commander and the other tank in his section so fitted would be a possibility.

[DavidDCM]

That may also be possible. But alas, that would be a waste of potential just as well.

 

The tank in your picture is/was a T-72M1. On an original T-72 you would see the optical rangefinder housing welded shut.

[bojan]

I think it is T-72M, not M1.

[Dark_Falcon]

I think it is T-72M, not M1.

 

That would work since it was curve of the turret front and its seeming lack of the bulge of later T-72s that led me to ID it as I did. If I'm wrong, I'm wrong but at least I'll learn and up my game for next time.

Edited January 27, 2016 by Dark_Falcon

[Roman Alymov]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2Og1Ar3B6Hc

[Roman Alymov]

Arsenal somewhere in Syria

[DavidDCM]

I think it is T-72M, not M1.

 

It is indeed difficult to ascertain from this perspective. But I still think it is a M1. On an M, his leg wouldn't fit between the Smoke launchers and the ammo box, because they'd directly adjoin each other with no space in between.

[bojan]

That is unreliable ID point as it depended on manufacturer, time of production and end user configuring tank, only reliable ones are turret shape and glacis. Our original production M-84s (based on T-72M) have later config...

From a turret shape I would say it is M since it looks like there is no "step" under SGDs, but it is hard to be sure.

Here is a pic of M-84, you can see it is later config with space between ammo box and SGDs. IIRC ammo boxes were moved so crew would not have to step on them while climbing on tank.

Edited January 27, 2016 by bojan

[Mr King]

[ink]

That pic is a bit trippy because it looks like the guy on the right has a picture of the guy on the left on his t-shirt.

[Roman Alymov]

That pic is a bit trippy because it looks like the guy on the right has a picture of the guy on the left on his t-shirt.

Not exactly as this guy is one of "Desert falcons" and t-shirt portray Russian pilot killed by Turks last year

[Roman Alymov]

[Simon Tan]

Kinsabba...the last major village in Latakia governate controlled by the rebels has fallen. The SAA now overlloks and dominates M4 all the way to Jisr al Shugour in Idlib. The Turks have all run away.

[bojan]

Rarity... Ex-Yugo RB M57 with ammo with labels in French and English. Ammo made in 1968. Anyone cares to guess from where did this one come?

https://twitter.com/green_lemonnn/status/692350718829817856/photo/1

Edited January 29, 2016 by bojan

[Simon Tan]

I dunno. Africa?

[bojan]

I am actually honestly surprised by this one. Maybe Algeria or Zair/Congo, but no proof, sales of RB M57 are total enigma. Everything else could be tracked, but this one...

[Panzermann]

Lebanon maybe?

To this day especially christians there speak french and study in France, adopt french first names etc.

 

 

Considering half of Africa speaks french being former french colonies I guess from Africa and then smuggled to Syria is a safe bet. Is there a list of foreign sales by yugo factories?

Edited January 29, 2016 by Panzermann

[Panzermann]

RAND's ideas for A Peace Plan for Syria: http://www.rand.org/pubs/perspectives/PE182.html

 

The conflict in Syria is radicalizing an entire generation of young Muslims, killing or maiming hundreds of thousands of innocents, forcing millions of Syrians to flee their homes, destabilizing neighboring states, straining the bonds of European solidarity, and fostering religious intolerance in the United States and elsewhere. Almost any peace would be better than this war.

This essay presents a peace plan for Syria that is focused less on defining the nature of the Syrian state that might emerge from the conflict and more on the steps necessary to secure and sustain a ceasefire for the extended period that is likely to be needed for the Syrian parties to actually agree on new governing arrangements. The proposal calls for deferring a comprehensive political solution and resolution of the Assad question and focusing instead on a ceasefire backed by international enforcement, regional devolution of power, humanitarian assistance, and a longer-term political process.

 

The essay concludes that the external parties that have supported one side or another in the current conflict will need to come together to guarantee and enforce any such ceasefire, if it is to hold. The parties will need to serve as external guarantors for three safe zones that reflect both Syria's battle lines and ethno-sectarian divisions.

essay: https://www.rand.org/content/dam/rand/pubs/perspectives/PE100/PE182/RAND_PE182.pdf

Edited January 29, 2016 by Panzermann