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Meanwhile, In Libya...


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Yes Shariah law as a basis for ones national laws is very progressive. I see a bright future ahead for Libya, especially the women.

 

Yes sort of like law in some Western countries in the 1950s (like Ireland).

 

Note that Jalil states that:

 

 

He said Islamic sharia law should be the main source of legislation but added: "We will not accept any extremist ideology, on the right or the left. We are a Muslim people, for a moderate Islam, and will stay on this road."

 

Jalil also emphasised that women had played an important part in the revolution and would continue to do so.

 

While not up to current western standards, its rather progressive for Arab and/or Muslim countries.

 

BTW those nations that laws recongnize some form of Sharia law:

 

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There are countries in South America that recognize Sharia law? Just curious, where would their Muslim population have come from?

 

Guyana. Their ancestors were from what is now India and Pakistan. Quite a few people from there were imported into what was then British Guiana.

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Yes Shariah law as a basis for ones national laws is very progressive. I see a bright future ahead for Libya, especially the women.

 

Yes sort of like law in some Western countries in the 1950s (like Ireland).

 

Note that Jalil states that:

 

 

He said Islamic sharia law should be the main source of legislation but added: "We will not accept any extremist ideology, on the right or the left. We are a Muslim people, for a moderate Islam, and will stay on this road."

 

Jalil also emphasised that women had played an important part in the revolution and would continue to do so.

 

While not up to current western standards, its rather progressive for Arab and/or Muslim countries.

 

BTW those nations that laws recongnize some form of Sharia law:

 

 

 

Yes I am quite capable of reading what was repeated in the links you originally provided. As I am also aware of Sharia being present in other countries, that was kind of the point. He does say some nice pretty things to our western ears , while working to a Islamic theocracy, but hey details right? I am sure everything will work out in the end, and it wont be just another shit show.

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my only point is that there are a whole spectrum of Muslims, and like it or not Islam aint going anywhere soon. I think it would behoove us to support the moderate - progressive Muslims in their struggle against the extremists. Most of those counties are a shit show, and potential "failed states". That is a huge problem for the stability of the West.

 

IMO we would be better off without any Religion. Yes I'm an equal opportunity Atheist.

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No, supporting the moderate Muslims who go with the flow is not the way to win this. We need to support the reformist Muslims who are actually trying to move the ball to the other end of the field.

Edited by rmgill
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There are countries in South America that recognize Sharia law? Just curious, where would their Muslim population have come from?

 

Guyana. Their ancestors were from what is now India and Pakistan. Quite a few people from there were imported into what was then British Guiana.

 

Ah, thanks!

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That Arab Spring, can't get enough of it.

 

35 Egyptians rounded up by ISIS as reprisals for Egyptian air raids

 

Tripoli, 16 February 2015:

There are reports that at least 35 Egyptians have been kidnapped in what appears to be a round-up at various locations in areas controlled by Ansar Al-Sharia and IS.

The Libya Herald has been told that starting this morning, in the wake of the attack on Derna by warplanes from Egypt, Egyptian nationals, many of them it seems farm workers, have been picked up by gunmen. The first reports were that seven men had been seized, but by mid-afternoon, it was being said that at least 35 had been reported missing.

 

http://www.libyaherald.com/2015/02/16/breaking-news-more-egyptians-being-kidnapped/

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No, supporting the moderate Muslims who go with the flow is not the way to win this. We need to support the reformist Muslims who are actually trying to move the ball to the other end of the field.

 

Provided you can find some...

 

S/F....Ken M

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No, supporting the moderate Muslims who go with the flow is not the way to win this. We need to support the reformist Muslims who are actually trying to move the ball to the other end of the field.

 

Provided you can find some...

 

S/F....Ken M

There are a few. They are regularly harrassed by the moderate extremist who just hurl insults and minor objects rather than actually shooting bullets....

 

Irshad Manjii is one..

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I'm actually surprised that Libyas collapse has received such little attention, given that it was a multinational intervention that worked out horribly. I mean, it seems like a much more viable failure to blame Obama for than the Benghazi consulate bullshit or his supposed failure to confront ISIS, and the fact that it was a quasi-NATO project should make a lot of the participating countries realize that they too kind of suck at military intervention.

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How could they not suck at that sort of intervention? It was all just support what ever random rebels were fighting and bomb the active government forces. What did folks think was going to happen once the Qaddafists were gone?

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How could they not suck at that sort of intervention? It was all just support what ever random rebels were fighting and bomb the active government forces. What did folks think was going to happen once the Qaddafists were gone?

New era of stability and democracy, of course! I mean, that's what they promised. Surely they wouldn't lie?

 

There were lots of whining in some circles here when we ruled out participation in Libya intervention. Man, it is surely a relief now that the mess there doesn't bear our signature.

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We don't hear much from right next door Tunisia, I presume the "No news, good news" principle applies. If so, what did they do right that the others didn't?

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We don't hear much from right next door Tunisia, I presume the "No news, good news" principle applies. If so, what did they do right that the others didn't?

 

Good question

 

http://oilandmoney.net/interactive/agenda-topics/tunisia-what-went-right/

 

as usual the answer lies in a complex mix of social factors.

 

Here Tunisia’s more rooted civil society — active even under an authoritarian regime — has played a key role, distinguishing it from its North African neighbors. Analysts point to the trade unions that formed a critical part of the nationalist movement that gained independence from colonial power France. “Both Habib Bourguiba [independent Tunisia’s first president] and [Zine el-Abidine] Ben Ali allowed a margin of maneuver. Ben Ali may have placed his own people at the top [of some unions] but the base was not dominated by the Ben Ali clan,” argues el-Amrani. And for secularists today, unions such as the Tunisian General Labor Union (UGTT) provide a powerful counterweight to Ennahda. “Trade unions and business owners were able to bring Ennahda to the negotiating table given their ability to mobilize parts of Tunisian society,” he says.

Tunisia’s army — one step removed from politics, and from the economy, unlike Egypt’s military minders — has also been a stabilizing force. Relatively higher levels of education and a more diversified economy have also provided a good platform on which Tunisian civil society can build.

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this has been the main problem the secular opposition to Arab dictators has generally suffered the most, yet are almost always the ones who mange to start the overthrow. The Muslin organizations take over the overthrow at the last minute and deal with the secular who are now caught between 2 fronts. If a dictator decided they wanted a peaceful and successful turnover, they would suppress the fundamentalist and break their organization, all while allowing secularist to take over local government and build their own grassroots.

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Frankly this is often problem with dictators regardless where - they tend to stomp heavily on any opposition and the "moderate" opposition is usually worse at conspiracy, easier to access and even easier to be turned into "pour encourager les autres" example.

 

Heck, it was similar with the Russian revolution. You had a moderate first wave and then radical 2nd wave.

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Yes. The more oppressed before the revolution, the more chaotic afterwards. Libya was run by a particularly mad & capricious dictator. What little civic society there was, was systematically demolished & replaced by Gaddafi-worship societies, & organisations headed by his family & lackeys. When he was overthrown, there wasn't much in the way of civic society to step into the breach.

 

The example of the national football federation is instructive. Headed by one of his sons, who was also star player for the leading club side (he was crap, but everyone had to pass to him & opponents had to get out of his way). Foreign clubs were paid huge sums to put him on the payroll as a player (but they wouldn't play him), to validate his status in Libya. Imagine running everything like that. It was only possible because of the flow of money from oil.

 

Tunisia was much better run. Even Egypt was much better run than that. It had to be, because it didn't have the essentially free money from oil to pay for everything.

Edited by swerve
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The reason is that in many places the moderates reject violence, they consider it beneath them, they are narcissists, so when they need it, it is too late, they can´t change themselves even if they want, they don't have the culture.

 

Then when the s*** hits the fan they can't play the new game, they go back to their homes.

Edited by lucklucky
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