Daan Posted May 29, 2020 Posted May 29, 2020 Two pictures surfaced of one of the unmarked MiG-29s during their stopover in Syria. It is not one of the later models, the hump backed MiG-29SMT, but an earlier model, probably the MiG-29S.
Nobu Posted May 29, 2020 Posted May 29, 2020 Straight out of MIG-29S Squadron 4, Nowheresville, Russia. I got another problem here. I've got to send someone from this squadron to Libya. I've got to do something here, I still can't believe it...
Roman Alymov Posted May 30, 2020 Posted May 30, 2020 I think they person the Russians are playing chicken with is 'Just The Tayyip', not the West. If anyone is going to overtly react to Russian jets being present, it will be the Turks. I would assume drones would be used if the Turks went that way, but F-16's could easily stage out that far with in flight refueling or a light load.I think you are missing time factor: arranging the deal with sponsors (probably UAE is paying the bills), preparing the planes (i would not be surprised if they are from dozens of Mig-29th abandoned by Ukrainian AF in Crimea as they were unable to fix them - but Russian plants can, especially for this one-way deployment), finding pilots (probably also from Eastern Europe or Ukraine), arranging all details - how long ago it all started? Quite likely the planes were planned to arrive right in time to became victorious LNA new national aviation (as LNA was advancing quite well back then).. Also i can't rule out Turks somehow were aware of it (or even informed of it) making them rush to deploy armor and Syrian rebel forces to Libya, abandoning efforts in Idlib - as result NATO's second strongest army and Russia regional competitor now bogged down in civil war overseas while de-facto loosing positions in convenient conflict next to its border. Desert war in Libya may last decades due to its tribal nature...
Colin Posted May 31, 2020 Posted May 31, 2020 Turkey been in NATO for the last decade in name only. Turkey is continued to be wooed by both NATO and Russia for reasons of geography, not for the sake of ideology. Erdrogen ideology is a fantasy of Ottoman Empire 2.0 with the Arab nations licking his feet and Europe kissing his ring and the US and Russia bowing in his court.
Mistral Posted May 31, 2020 Posted May 31, 2020 (edited) If you are right, the Erdogan Doctrine is nuts.You need to follow English language Turkish news more, you will be surprised. Especially on 29th of May. Edited May 31, 2020 by Mistral
Colin Posted May 31, 2020 Posted May 31, 2020 like this? https://www.yenisafak.com/en/columns/ibrahimkaragul/they-wrote-oppression-began-in-1453-in-istanbul-streets-we-started-to-recite-surah-al-fath-the-victory-in-hagia-sophia-they-set-traps-in-the-mediterranean-libya-ankara-they-waged-war-against-the-turkey-axis-we-build-defense-shields-in-every-corner-of-the-region-they-were-leftist-liberal-islamist-they-all-gathered-to-become-pro-tutelage-2047468
Mistral Posted May 31, 2020 Posted May 31, 2020 (edited) like this? https://www.yenisafak.com/en/columns/ibrahimkaragul/they-wrote-oppression-began-in-1453-in-istanbul-streets-we-started-to-recite-surah-al-fath-the-victory-in-hagia-sophia-they-set-traps-in-the-mediterranean-libya-ankara-they-waged-war-against-the-turkey-axis-we-build-defense-shields-in-every-corner-of-the-region-they-were-leftist-liberal-islamist-they-all-gathered-to-become-pro-tutelage-2047468Thats the Sun equivalent but yes. The Jews and the US conspire to keep Turkey from its due in Eastern Europe / ME. Edited May 31, 2020 by Mistral
Roman Alymov Posted May 31, 2020 Posted May 31, 2020 Turkey been in NATO for the last decade in name only. Turkey is continued to be wooed by both NATO and Russia for reasons of geography, not for the sake of ideology. Erdrogen ideology is a fantasy of Ottoman Empire 2.0 with the Arab nations licking his feet and Europe kissing his ring and the US and Russia bowing in his court. As well as other NATO members are as long as there is no real war. Re Erdrogen ideology, I know little about it (despite visiting Turkey many times as tourist) – but if common Western reporting of it is of the same quality as Western reporting on “Putin ideology” than it is most likely far from reality.
Stuart Galbraith Posted May 31, 2020 Posted May 31, 2020 Straight out of MIG-29S Squadron 4, Nowheresville, Russia. I got another problem here. I've got to send someone from this squadron to Libya. I've got to do something here, I still can't believe it...Well look on the bright side, it beats flying Rubber Dog Shit out of Vladivostok. I love Mig29's. I really dont want to see them being bombed, but maybe thats why they are there.
Nobu Posted May 31, 2020 Posted May 31, 2020 I admit to being poorly informed about Turkish news. The Erdogan Doctrine may be nuts, but I also think the Gulen under his bed is something other than a harmless cleric. Well look on the bright side, it beats flying Rubber Dog Shit out of Vladivostok. lol Even those beaten up MIG-29 examples have an air of menace to them. Turkey may want to consider sending its best if it responds in kind.
Stuart Galbraith Posted May 31, 2020 Posted May 31, 2020 It's still a perfectly good tactical fighter. A bit out of date, but perhaps it's a reasonable matchup to Turkish F16s. If you forget the complete lack of AWACs anyway.
bojan Posted May 31, 2020 Posted May 31, 2020 The Erdogan Doctrine may be nuts, but I also think the Gulen under his bed is something other than a harmless cleric. Gulen is also neo-osmanist, same as Erdogan.
Nobu Posted May 31, 2020 Posted May 31, 2020 A very interesting matchup against Turkish F-16s. And going by Russia's track record, sending a few serious Jester-type aces along with the unpainted MIGs and "eastern european" pilots they send to Libya would be just like them. Plus, I have always liked big, twin-engined heavy fighters. Neo-osmanists cloaked in religion for tax exempt status, not so much.
Roman Alymov Posted May 31, 2020 Posted May 31, 2020 A very interesting matchup against Turkish F-16s. And going by Russia's track record, sending a few serious Jester-type aces along with the unpainted MIGs and "eastern european" pilots they send to Libya would be just like them. Plus, I have always liked big, twin-engined heavy fighters. Neo-osmanists cloaked in religion for tax exempt status, not so much.Mig-29 is twin-engine, but hardly big (Su-27 is big)I do not think there are Russian pilots in this deployment – as there are plenty of others on the market to hire (and pilots from Ukraine, poorest country of Europe, are the most logical choice). Meanwhile, papers found somewhere in Libya show structure of some unit trained by Russian-speaking advisor (non-Russian speakers believe it is the list of “Russian mercenaries” but it is not - as there is no single non-Arab name in the list)https://pbs.twimg.com/media/EZWkv2oWoAMkFns?format=jpg&Columns are, left to right(probably name in Arabic)Name in RussianPosition/role in Russian(Position/role in Arabic?)Nickname in Russian(Nickname in Arabic?)Position column, top to bottom:3rd Platoon commander1st section commanderMachine gunnerRPG operatorRPG operator aidRiflemanRiflemanRifleman2nd section commanderMachine gunnerRPG operatorRPG operator aidRiflemanRiflemanRifleman3nd section commanderMachine gunnerRPG operatorRPG operator aidRiflemanRiflemanRifleman
glenn239 Posted June 1, 2020 Posted June 1, 2020 I think they person the Russians are playing chicken with is 'Just The Tayyip', not the West. If anyone is going to overtly react to Russian jets being present, it will be the Turks. I would assume drones would be used if the Turks went that way, but F-16's could easily stage out that far with in flight refueling or a light load.I think you are missing time factor: arranging the deal with sponsors (probably UAE is paying the bills), preparing the planes (i would not be surprised if they are from dozens of Mig-29th abandoned by Ukrainian AF in Crimea as they were unable to fix them - but Russian plants can, especially for this one-way deployment), finding pilots (probably also from Eastern Europe or Ukraine), arranging all details - how long ago it all started? Quite likely the planes were planned to arrive right in time to became victorious LNA new national aviation (as LNA was advancing quite well back then).. Also i can't rule out Turks somehow were aware of it (or even informed of it) making them rush to deploy armor and Syrian rebel forces to Libya, abandoning efforts in Idlib - as result NATO's second strongest army and Russia regional competitor now bogged down in civil war overseas while de-facto loosing positions in convenient conflict next to its border. Desert war in Libya may last decades due to its tribal nature... What is the Russian government's stated objectives in Libya?
Roman Alymov Posted June 1, 2020 Posted June 1, 2020 What is the Russian government's stated objectives in Libya? "Russia firmly believes that there is no alternative to a political settlement based on an inclusive intra-Libyan dialogue and strict compliance with the decisions regarding Libya adopted by the international community. In this context, we support the initiative of Aguila Saleh, speaker of the eastern-based Libyan parliament, aimed at stopping the fratricidal conflict and at establishing new common bodies of power. We believe that this initiative could be used as the basis for the UN-led restoration of Libyan consensus." from https://www.mid.ru/en/web/guest/maps/us/-/asset_publisher/unVXBbj4Z6e8/content/id/4143562
glenn239 Posted June 1, 2020 Posted June 1, 2020 How was backing a rebel general's attempt to take over Tripoli consistent with that statement?
Adam Peter Posted June 1, 2020 Posted June 1, 2020 How was backing a rebel general's attempt to take over Tripoli consistent with that statement? This way.
Nobu Posted June 1, 2020 Posted June 1, 2020 (edited) To weaken an unpredictable (and possibly insane) neighbor. Edited June 1, 2020 by Nobu
Roman Alymov Posted June 17, 2020 Posted June 17, 2020 As Iran is now more handy suspect.... https://amp.theguardian.com/uk-news/2020/mar/11/lockerbie-bomber-conviction-may-have-been-miscarriage-of-justice?fbclid=IwAR2GiiwoiyjcwHUKpE-wvXX6QqrfSm6yCee4wGFJqEtGfwcdVa86NERV238Lockerbie bomber conviction ‘may have been miscarriage of justice’Criminal cases review commission approves fresh appeal over 1988 atrocity
Roman Alymov Posted June 19, 2020 Posted June 19, 2020 More NATO unity....https://warisboring.com/france-outraged-after-turkish-warships-repeatedly-lock-onto-french-frigate-in-the-mediterranean/France outraged after Turkish warships repeatedly lock onto French frigate in the Mediterranean
Colin Posted June 23, 2020 Posted June 23, 2020 Turkey in the Hay day of NATO is not the Turkey of today. Most of NATO would rather it was not there,.
glenn239 Posted June 23, 2020 Posted June 23, 2020 (edited) Well, that's one thing that "most of" NATO, Russia and China can all agree on then, that Turkey should leave NATO. Edited June 23, 2020 by glenn239
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