China's Peaceful Rise

[chino]

Chino just for perspective sake, I think China is something that is still very foreign, and unfamiliar to the majority of average Americans. Americans know that their jobs are going there, their goods are made there, and there was a guy named General Tso who made some damned good chicken ( I know its not real Chinese food ). Our news and basic education is just not focused on China. I don't think Americans see China like they did the Soviet Union during the Cold War. Frankly I think it confuses the situation even more for Americans when they know that China is one of our biggest trading partners, holds an insane level of our debt, so much of our every day goods are made there, and then they hear on the news about military rumblings or confrontation between our forces. Sadly and I am not being facetious, the most likely chance the average American will encounter an off the boat Chinese person, is at one of the mega American Chinese food buffets that have come to dot the country. Sadly the majority of Americans do not know that the people working at these restaurants are often brought in, and managed through a human trafficking ring. Or on a more positive note, Americans will meet them in a higher education setting. So outside of the cultural conflicts and misunderstandings that lead to bias and casual racism from those situations, I don't think Americans overall "hate China".They probably could not even find it on the map. We have very short attention spans.

 

Sorry for the rambling, .

 

Soon everyone will realize that the biggest threat is coming globally from Islam. It certainly is for China.

 

And FYI, America is the place where I have experienced the least racism as a Chinese. Heck, I have never been to a place where so many people are so ready to chat to me as if I am one of them. I love the US.

 

IMO, despite posturing for regional and domestic audiences, both the US and China will be cautious about actually starting a shooting war.

 

Just look at Taiwan. There's a lot more there at stake than some silly deserted islands. But because the US is involved, China has to date made no rash moves. Even the ROC-held islands of Kinmen and Matsu (2km away from PRC mainland) remain essentially unmolested except for some small skirmishes.

[Roman Alymov]

I was surprised how wide-spread expectations of Chinese expansionism are in Ukraine: Russian business radio regularly call random phone numbers in Ukraine to ask questions like “What do you think about it all” etc. So yesterday person from Kiev expressed opinion like “Russians have to behave themselves since Ukraine is the only place for Russians to run when Chinese invade them – and they will surely invade”. Most Ukrainians are sure Far East of Russia is already populated by Chinese migrants (somehow ignoring the fact there are more Chinese in Moscow then in whole Siberia).

[X-Files]

In late July, Genron NPO and China Daily surveyed (PDF) just over 1,500 people in mainland China about their attitudes toward Japan: 53 percent of Chinese respondents said they believed that “there will be a military conflict between Japan and China in the future,” either in a few years or the more distant future. (A parallel poll found that 29 percent of Japanese surveyed expected war with China.)

 

http://www.businessweek.com/articles/2014-09-12/most-chinese-expect-war-with-japan-some-day

[X-Files]

Making your days a little more Rodney King.

 

 

In this undated photo supplied by Amnesty International, side handled and telescopic batons and spike batons are displayed at a police equipment exhibition, at an undisclosed location. Chinese production and export of police equipment primarily used for torture, such as electric shock wands and neck-and-wrist cuffs connected by a chain, has grown dramatically, enabling human rights violations at home and abroad, Amnesty International said in a report Tuesday, Sept. 23, 2014. (Amnesty International)

[Heirophant]

Making your days a little more Rodney King.

 

 

In this undated photo supplied by Amnesty International, side handled and telescopic batons and spike batons are displayed at a police equipment exhibition, at an undisclosed location. Chinese production and export of police equipment primarily used for torture, such as electric shock wands and neck-and-wrist cuffs connected by a chain, has grown dramatically, enabling human rights violations at home and abroad, Amnesty International said in a report Tuesday, Sept. 23, 2014. (Amnesty International)

 

Hey, business is business. Somebody's got to fill the global demand for this stuff, why not Chinese factories?

[Panzermann]

Yes if the chinese would not produce these clubs someone else would.

 

but spiked clubs for police?

Edited September 24, 2014 by Panzermann

[Heirophant]

Yes if the chinese would not produce these clubs someone else would.

 

but spiked clubs for police?

 

For when you need EXTRA intimidation and deterrence!

 

See: Militarization of U.S. Police forces topic.

 

Spiked clubs in the hands of cops, soon to come in American towns and cities . . .

[Mr King]

Making your days a little more Rodney King.

 

 

In this undated photo supplied by Amnesty International, side handled and telescopic batons and spike batons are displayed at a police equipment exhibition, at an undisclosed location. Chinese production and export of police equipment primarily used for torture, such as electric shock wands and neck-and-wrist cuffs connected by a chain, has grown dramatically, enabling human rights violations at home and abroad, Amnesty International said in a report Tuesday, Sept. 23, 2014. (Amnesty International)

 

China may well be guilty of that, I am sorry but Amnesty International is one of the last groups on the list I would trust for facts about anything.

 

I am sure Amnesty International loves our use of them too.

 

http://youtu.be/tL05GMXWX54

 

http://youtu.be/eO5AurN9k60

[JasonJ]

Another attack in Xinjiang.

 

Regional authorities had earlier said that the explosions in Luntai County on Sunday killed at least two people and injured many others.

The news portal Tianshan Net said bombs exploded at two police stations, a produce market and a store.

It said the attack killed two police officers, two police assistants and six bystanders, and that 54 others were injured. It said police took swift action and 40 assailants were either shot dead or died in explosions.

 

 

 

http://www.japantimes.co.jp/news/2014/09/26/asia-pacific/xinjiang-police-killed-40-assailants-after-10-died-in-terrorist-attack-state-media/#.VCaf0BZgG2U

 

Link of the original thread with an attack posted below. Might be a good idea to condense it here.

 

http://www.tank-net.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=38937&do=findComment&comment=1068937

Edited September 27, 2014 by JasonJ

[JasonJ]

In Hong Kong, prodemocracy demo of thousands broken up with tear gas and pepper spray. Beijing called the demo illegal. As it is, by 2017, Hong Kong election candidates have to be approved by Beijing.

 

http://www.theguardian.com/world/2014/sep/28/kong-kong-police-teargas-pepper-spray-pro-democracy-protesters

[JasonJ]

The protests in the 10s of thousands, blocking intersections and whatnot, have been going on for several days now in Hong Kong. Today is the start of a two day long 65th anniversary of the establishment of communist China. Expectations is that the protests are to intensify soon rather then let up. Riot police in the first few days used the tear gas, etc, but have backed down hoping for the protesters to stop on their own will. News coverage in the mainland seems blocked to whatever possible extent. Japantimes is going a little overboard with the HK protests articles. But well it's still a significant event. Taiwan will be keeping a close on how the democracy protests are handled. If I am not mistaken, this is the first communist China anniversary after the announcement of the Beijing's requirement to have HK candidates be approved by Beijing first starting 2017. Feels like a defining moment running up until then. If the protesters push it hard enough, they might provoke another Tianamen square. For the PRC and common folk throughout China, letting the protests energy spread might be too harmful. But HK protesters are only protesting for HK's, not for a fundamental change in the PRC government. But maybe allowing HK to keep a true 1 country 2 system policy is not possible for the PRC government. Not sure this is going to go. PRC government will likely try lots of underhanded and soft powers to reduce antagonism to PRC's plans and attempt coasting through the next bumpy 3-4 years.

[Colin]

It's hard to say, the PRC might fear any challenge and react far stronger to it then needed, but I suspect they still need HK as golden goose and not as a lame duck.

[swerve]

The HK protestors are making a point of being well-behaved. They have clean-up squads (& have cleaned up things thrown at them by pro-Beijing demonstrators), put up notices apologising for the inconvenience caused, obey 'keep off the grass' notices, etc. There are teenagers sitting on the ground doing their homework in the middle of the protesting crowds.

 

All they're asking is for China to keep the promises it made in the handover agreement. This makes it a little difficult for China to reject their demands outright, since it would amount to a unilateral repudiation of the agreement, which obviously wouldn't go down well in Taiwan. That, combined with their moderate behaviour, may be inhibiting the response.

[Roman Alymov]

The HK protestors are making a point of being well-behaved.

Are they trying to avoid giving formal reasons to forcibly remove them? (as far as I remember one of “Occupy Wall Street” was removed because of litter around)

[Josh]

Quite honestly heavy handed tactics won't work in HK. In the mainland that works fine, when you have complete control of the media. But HK is too public and too important for finance to simply crush. And any less forceful action likely just reinforces the protest, as was seen Sunday. Bottom line: The PRC will do nothing. They reason, probably correctly, that they can simply outlast the protestors and that anything they do will only drag the protests further. They can't give in, because that only destabilizes the rest of the country. This will go on unhindered until the protesters give up and go home; think of it as Occupy Wall Street. The people being protested can simply afford to not care and reacting in any way only complicates things.

[JasonJ]

Protest leaders saying the Chief Executive of Hong Kong must resign or builders will be occupied. In earlier news articles, it has been demands for dialogue with the chief.

 

http://www.japantimes.co.jp/news/2014/10/01/asia-pacific/politics-diplomacy-asia-pacific/never-popular-hong-kongs-embattled-leader-faces-calls-head/#.VCwjXXgay0c

 

Although I can't say what percentage of the protest groups will actually storm in and occupy some buildings.

[Mr King]

Interesting pepper spray. Looks like it has some kind of agent to make it sticky.

 

 

 

[Roman Alymov]

Although I can't say what percentage of the protest groups will actually storm in and occupy some buildings.

Events in Ukraine prove it is well possible even with few people, if enough passive supporters

 

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=BPNuXfw7GQY

[EchoFiveMike]

Interesting pepper spray. Looks like it has some kind of agent to make it sticky.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

It's just a foam or gel version, old as dirt.

 

We were using this shit on Haitians in 1995. S/F....Ken M

[X-Files]

Popcorn time.

http://www.businessweek.com/articles/2014-09-25/australian-economy-changes-as-commodity-exports-to-china-slow

http://time.com/money/3394655/china-housing-bubble/

http://www.theguardian.com/business/grogonomics/2014/sep/08/why-a-collapse-in-chinas-housing-market-will-hurt-australia

[swerve]

 

The HK protestors are making a point of being well-behaved.

Are they trying to avoid giving formal reasons to forcibly remove them? (as far as I remember one of “Occupy Wall Street” was removed because of litter around)

 

Sounds likely.

[Josh]

I also think they are afraid of antagonizing their fellow citizens and loosing their support.

[Mr King]

 

Interesting pepper spray. Looks like it has some kind of agent to make it sticky.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

It's just a foam or gel version, old as dirt.

 

We were using this shit on Haitians in 1995. S/F....Ken M

 

 

Interesting, thanks.

[JasonJ]

 

Although I can't say what percentage of the protest groups will actually storm in and occupy some buildings.

 

Events in Ukraine prove it is well possible even with few people, if enough passive supporters

3,000 are outside the Chief Executive Leung Chun-ying's office with some saying they will occupy the building. Looks like there are enough protesters to do it if the resolve is really there.

 

http://www.japantimes.co.jp/news/2014/10/02/asia-pacific/politics-diplomacy-asia-pacific/thousands-swarm-outside-h-k-leaders-office-calls-mount-resignation/

 

In the article, it says Leung Chun-ying is not at work and is to come back on Friday after the 2 day holiday (at least under normal circumstances). So will he come back if the protesters are still there?

[Heirophant]

They won't actually barge into buildings, break into any shops, or in any way break the law. That would be stupid, and simply plays into the Hong Kong government's hands. Not to mention Beijing's response.

 

No, the smart play is simply to try and outlast the authorities, and dramatize their principles. The authorities' play will be basically to ignore them. So long as Hong Kong functions as a city, the protesters can camp in the streets.