China's Peaceful Rise

[bojan]

Chinese are not communist since long time ago, they are Italian type fascists.

[Josh]

China's economic policy over the last forty years could hardly be called "Communism", though it is moving back in that direction. Actually the high speed rail connection is an interesting enterprise to study with regard to how the Chinese government and economy interact. Huge amounts of the system between tertiary cities barely run because there is no demand - the connections were created more as a jobs program than to fill an infrastructure need. There is a huge amount of China Rail Corporation debt as a result. The network is absolutely impressive, but it is also a good case study in non market driven economics.

[sunday]

5 minutes ago, bojan said:

Chinese are not communist since long time ago, they are Italian type fascists.

...and not only because of their fixation on railways...

[Perun]

21 minutes ago, bojan said:

Chinese are not communist since long time ago, they are Italian type fascists.

No, they are not anything like Italian. They are sucessful and competent

[bojan]

1 hour ago, Perun said:

No, they are not anything like Italian. They are sucessful and competent

Italian type fascism, not Italian implementation of it. You know what people say in Istra "What it is - it does not whistle and you can not put it in the ass? Italian ass-whistle.".

Edited October 3, 2023 by bojan

[sunday]

11 minutes ago, Perun said:

No, they are not anything like Italian. They are sucessful and competent

Lacking in style, however.

[Strannik]

Hey, it's Western folks of all ilks (US especially) who calls Chinese commies.  Can't have it both ways you guys 😅

[Roman Alymov]

2 hours ago, bojan said:

Italian type fascism, not Italian implementation of it. You know what people say in Istra "What it is - it does not whistle and you can not put it in the ass? Italian ass-whistle.".

That was exactly the Soviet joke for Soviet products

[Stuart Galbraith]

 

[Mike1158]

I have not seen this corroborated yet.  Anything by way of actual proof?

[Josh]

3 minutes ago, Mike1158 said:

I have not seen this corroborated yet.  Anything by way of actual proof?

It has been a rumor for weeks or months. If no one has come out to confirm it yet, then I don't think we're going to see that ever. The only interesting thing about this particular report is that I had not previously heard any mention that the problem was due to a deliberate obstacle. I didn't realize such things existed outside nets around harbors (if you look at any Chinese military port they have very protected dock areas with sea walls - Taiwan even more so).

[bojan]

2 hours ago, Roman Alymov said:

That was exactly the Soviet joke for Soviet products

Well, when something is crap people tend to think roughly in the same terms about it, no matter the country. A lot of local jokes about Yugo (car) are the same as in any other country about similar crappy car, and that happened way before easy communication via internet.

[Strannik]

The Chinese sub story origin and inconsistencies:

 

[RETAC21]

15 hours ago, Stuart Galbraith said:

 

I don't think the above is accurate, starting with such red flags as the ratio of officers to enlisted in the casualties and the cause and effect. There may have been an accident of some kind, but not like that.

[Stuart Galbraith]

I dont know what to make about it. I cant see that anyone has anything to gain by making it up. At the same time, there are obvious logic holes in it, I dont disagree.

How I interpret it, they didnt lose the boat, but had some problem that asphixiated part of the crew. And if the large number of officers killed is correct, it may be that they are the ones, just like in the Soviet Navy, that are technically qualified, and the enlisted just keep do the menial jobs.

Or it might be complete nonsense, there is that too.

[Josh]

Unless some other credible evidence arises, I think it is best to assume it didn't happen. The boat wasn't lost either way, so this isn't really super relevant outside anyone who might have been involved if it happened. And accidents on submarines are hardly super rare. I can think of several examples in the last few years alone, and those are just the ones we know of.

[glenn239]

3 hours ago, RETAC21 said:

I don't think the above is accurate, starting with such red flags as the ratio of officers to enlisted in the casualties and the cause and effect. There may have been an accident of some kind, but not like that.

So they know the exact number of those killed and the  name of the commanding officer, but don't know little things like the name of the sub. 

[RETAC21]

5 minutes ago, glenn239 said:

So they know the exact number of those killed and the  name of the commanding officer, but don't know little things like the name of the sub. 

Chinese subs don't have names as such, but numbers and a "code name". Long march for nuclear powered subs and Great Wall for diesel subs, which kind of makes sense.

[Tim the Tank Nut]

given the level or surprise that Hamas was able to achieve in one of the most watched areas of the world it is disconcerting to think that the same quality of intelligence exists on the Straits between Taiwan and China.

As the US diverts forces to the Middle East it seems like it increases the chances of conflict far East.

To describe the global status as unsettled would be a massive understatement.  I wonder what is next...

[Colin]

A sub is an accident waiting to happen, it's due diligence by the Crew, shipyards that is what keeps it from happening. I would not be surprised that an accident happen, they been trying to expand their fleets over the years and perhaps the ratio of experienced crew to new trainees got to thin.

[Josh]

7 hours ago, Tim the Tank Nut said:

given the level or surprise that Hamas was able to achieve in one of the most watched areas of the world it is disconcerting to think that the same quality of intelligence exists on the Straits between Taiwan and China.

As the US diverts forces to the Middle East it seems like it increases the chances of conflict far East.

To describe the global status as unsettled would be a massive understatement.  I wonder what is next...

I don't think it would be particularly hard for China to launch an out of the blue ballistic missile attack against US allies and bases across the WestPac. I don't think an amphibious invasion is remotely something that could be concealed. Flipping the script, it seems like just handful of B-2s could stage a Pearl Harbor like attack on China. Modern PGMs really favor the person shooting first.

[Strannik]

The yellow scare propaganda in US brings fruit

 

[Josh]

This strikes me as politically motivated rather than racial. Misplaced violence for sure, but not strictly racial.

[Strannik]

30 minutes ago, Josh said:

This strikes me as politically motivated rather than racial. Misplaced violence for sure, but not strictly racial.

I meant it as analogous in "red scare".

"Yellow peril/menace" is a racist color metaphor alluding to existential danger of folks with monolid eyes to the Western world.  

In any case congrats to us entering the next stage of enlightenment.

 

[Josh]

1 hour ago, Strannik said:

I meant it as analogous in "red scare".

"Yellow peril/menace" is a racist color metaphor alluding to existential danger of folks with monolid eyes to the Western world.  

In any case congrats to us entering the next stage of enlightenment.

 

So far I don't think the US has done anything unreasonable with regards to China and while the popularity of the CCP is very low here, that is the case in lot of countries in the WestPac as well. China really has itself to blame; since Xi came to power its policies are quite militant and its diplomacy rather caustic.