Chris Werb Posted July 14, 2014 Posted July 14, 2014 Interesting! http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2014/07/12/army-to-replace-mm-pistol-with-more-reliable-gun-packing-better-knock-down/?intcmp=trending This thread should run to a few posts...
Dawes Posted July 14, 2014 Posted July 14, 2014 Unlike Law Enforcement (which can use hollow point ammo), the military is limited to standard ball ammunition which has received a lot of negative feedback from US users - at least in the 9mm arena. 9mm and .45 are already in the supply system and have been for decades. It will be interesting to see if the military is open to introducing yet another caliber.
Colin Posted July 14, 2014 Posted July 14, 2014 Been kicked around elsewhere, I suspect a great money pit coming to nothing. Unless they plan on dropping the NATO standard it's not going to happen. There is already many fine gun platforms out there. They would be better off providing better training and polymer pistol.
irregularmedic Posted July 14, 2014 Posted July 14, 2014 Been kicked around elsewhere, I suspect a great money pit coming to nothing. Unless they plan on dropping the NATO standard it's not going to happen. There is already many fine gun platforms out there. They would be better off providing better training and polymer pistol. No, that'd take another decade, while they tried to decide what camo to have it come in!
Dawes Posted July 14, 2014 Posted July 14, 2014 It'll also be interesting to see whether a striker-fired pistol will be acceptable this time. In the past, the US has opted for hammer-fired pistols for general issue.
Chris Werb Posted July 14, 2014 Author Posted July 14, 2014 The US abandoning a NATO standard in small arms calibre/chambering? Never going to happen!
Heirophant Posted July 14, 2014 Posted July 14, 2014 The US abandoning a NATO standard in small arms calibre/chambering? Never going to happen! Yup. "Never". We stuck with the 7.62 NATO for our standard rifles and . . . oh wait . . .
Rickard N Posted July 14, 2014 Posted July 14, 2014 It's sort of funny that the 9mm is considered to be such a non powered ammunition when the cop-killer rounds are 9mm. /R
shep854 Posted July 14, 2014 Posted July 14, 2014 The US abandoning a NATO standard in small arms calibre/chambering? Never going to happen! Yup. "Never". We stuck with the 7.62 NATO for our standard rifles and . . . oh wait . . . AFTER the US crammed the 7.62x51 down NATO's throat.
Panzermann Posted July 14, 2014 Posted July 14, 2014 The US abandoning a NATO standard in small arms calibre/chambering? Never going to happen! Yup. "Never". We stuck with the 7.62 NATO for our standard rifles and . . . oh wait . . . AFTER the US crammed the 7.62x51 down NATO's throat. And the M16 and the accompanying SCHV cartridge was forced on the US Army by McNamara. Nothing US Army ordonance wanted. You know, SPIW is just around the corner! Really! Trust us! This whole thing is a red herring. This way the bureaucrats can pretend doing something. "see we are looking for a new pistol!" And all in order to save their own comfy office chairs in the Pentagon and not be downsized in the coming cuts. Better to cut another maneuver unit, you know. Oh and some Colonol can get his star over this. Or some general officer one star added. For goos management, too sad it turned out to be not worth it, bt anyway here is your promotion. The whole new caliber gives it away. there is no point in changing as anything ther than 9*19. Luger hit a sweet spot more than a century ago and anything larger makes more problems than it is worth. .40 is hard on pistols and has high attrition. .45 is too big and needs big pistols and the ammo costs substantially more. And anything smaller than 9 Para is not really worth it. A better pistol would be nice, like a Glock or S&W M&p9mm. But procurement will insist on a safety lever. About as useful as tits on a fish on these pistols. But the biggest problem will not be fixed, lack of training.
Archie Pellagio Posted July 14, 2014 Posted July 14, 2014 (edited) Expecting magyckal single shot insta kill will turn this into yet another procurement goat fuck. If going with .45 there are already numerous, battle tested pistols out there like USP.I'm still not sold on glocks for military use but that's just a personal spidey sense thing, not at all objective. I still think a smaller frame pistol is the way to go, and a dozen rounds of 9mm the most effective solution.Super huge pistols with 15+ rds in 9mm or 10+ rds .45 are unworkable within realistic training allocations for pretty much all females and huge number of men. Anyway, didn't they start this years ago looking for a new pistol in .45? Edited July 14, 2014 by Archie Pellagio
Colin Posted July 14, 2014 Posted July 14, 2014 Both Glock and S&W offers thumb safeties. the G17 is now in service with the UK
shep854 Posted July 14, 2014 Posted July 14, 2014 Remember the Glock was a clean-sheet design for a bare-bones combat pistol.I don't like them, but there's no denying their stark functionality.
Dawes Posted July 14, 2014 Posted July 14, 2014 Well, whatever design they eventually select, I certainly hope it's been Jack Bauer approved
Panzermann Posted July 14, 2014 Posted July 14, 2014 Remember the Glock was a clean-sheet design for a bare-bones combat pistol.I don't like them, but there's no denying their stark functionality. And probably safer than a revolver. And nobody would order a revolver with a safety switch. I really do not understand this ignorant insisting on safety switches for striker fired pistols. also the double strike for a failed to fire cartridge, Who has the time and nerves to diagnose such a failure under combat stress? Just rack the slide and try again.
Colin Posted July 14, 2014 Posted July 14, 2014 Because the people writing the stuff often know bugger all or worse just enough to be really stupid. Or you get a fanboy of such and such pistol and everything else is junk. I personally prefer my M&P over the G17, but the G17 has a solid rep, long life and is quite accurate (if it fits your hand)
TTK Ciar Posted July 14, 2014 Posted July 14, 2014 Were personal sidearms of any use in Iraq or Afghanistan, at all? Or are they just for MP's?
Chris Werb Posted July 14, 2014 Author Posted July 14, 2014 Remember the Glock was a clean-sheet design for a bare-bones combat pistol.I don't like them, but there's no denying their stark functionality. I think the Glock exhibits JMB level genius of design.
T19 Posted July 14, 2014 Posted July 14, 2014 I love my 1911. You don't need 15 bullets when one will do. It just feels right.
bojan Posted July 14, 2014 Posted July 14, 2014 (edited) I think the Glock exhibits JMB level genius of design. More like Kalashnikov genius for compiling things into a single gun. Browning invented whole new principles of firearm operation, Glock compiled what worked.- operation - Browning/Saive- trigger mounted automatic safety - Iver Johnson Safety Revolver, Sauer Behorden 1930 pistol- pre-cocked semi-DA trigger - Roth Steyr 1907- plastic frame - H&K VP-70Also decocker lever, hailed as something new when SiG-Sauer introduced it was previously present on Mannlicher 1903 and Sauer 38H pistols.Al-frames IIR appeared originally on a limited run of Sauer Behorden 1930 pistols. Everything new is well forgotten old. Edited July 14, 2014 by bojan
Skorzeny Posted July 14, 2014 Posted July 14, 2014 I am so thirsty! Where did you find the Kool-Aid? I love my 1911. You don't need 15 bullets when one will do. It just feels right.
T19 Posted July 14, 2014 Posted July 14, 2014 On the range. Next to the ear protectors Why you don't like the1911
Archie Pellagio Posted July 14, 2014 Posted July 14, 2014 I think it is more the nonsense of single shot insta-kill with .45...
shep854 Posted July 15, 2014 Posted July 15, 2014 Remember the Glock was a clean-sheet design for a bare-bones combat pistol.I don't like them, but there's no denying their stark functionality. I think the Glock exhibits JMB level genius of design. Yet Glock had never designed a firearm before.
T19 Posted July 15, 2014 Posted July 15, 2014 I think it is more the nonsense of single shot insta-kill with .45... Ok I'm sure it might take two now and again . If u read that as one shot one kill then you have misinterpreted what I said. That being said a 45 is one hell of a bullet to catch and this 1911 is a combat proven weapon
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