3 Kidnapped Israeli Teenagers Found Executed. Prelude To Big Operation

[Adam Peter]

 

Hungarian Jews were relocated to Auschwitz.

 

 

Yes, you have found the dash in my sentence - eagle eyes! Please, keep readnig!

 

To be on topic: except those who were not / came back, and live here since then. Unfortunatelly you can't catch them this year living in a dire oppression and raging anti-semitism (which I express toward them, on a daily basis, of course), but try next year, sure you will find something interesting!

[Rod]

1. There are many rabbinical discussions of where the borders were meant to be. Some of them don't include the very south such as Eilat but most include all of Judea and Samaria (West Bank) a big chunk of the East Bank and parts of South of Lebanon. There are mentions of border of being between 2 major rivers which some referred as being Nile to Euphrates. Too many opinions ( as usual) but most of current State of Israel plus chunk of neighbors included.

 

2. As based on the Declaration of Independence? Remember Israel does not have a Constitution (like the UK). As I read it, it is a Jewish State with freedom and rights for all inhabitants. The text of the declaration was very controversial as there were lots of opinions on everything. What to be called (Land of Israel, Zion, Judea, etc..), to mention the name of G-d or not, etc...

 

3. I would think that after all my posts you would have the answer. So once more. Zionism as in the return of the Jews to the Holy Land is a tenet of Judaism. In fact according to Maimonides, a tenet of Judaism is the belief in the coming of the Messiah and the redemption that it will usher. Even those Ultra-Orthodox that do not recognize a secular State of Israel, believe in the redemption and eventual return to Zion under the Messiah.

 

.

 

Rod,

 

PLEASE , why are we going over this yet again.

 

Please tell me, in simple terms ;

 

1: What are the various descriptions of "The Land of Israel" ?

 

2: What is the description of the State of Israel ?

 

3: IS zionism a tenet of the Jewish faith ?

[Rod]

We don't have a new Temple. When Jerusalem was liberated in 1967, Moshe Dayan and the secular leadership thought would be nice to let the Waqf control the entire Temple Mount area.

 

 

 

Interesting. I must have confused this with some other version of the Messiah's coming, which is supposed to be one nasty slaughter.

There was one, a whole Temple and an "Old Testament" went away with it. How many more slaughters do you want? You have wanted a new Temple on the Temple Mount - you have a new one. How many more do you want?

[Rod]

My living and being a faithful American has not diminished my religious beliefs. To the contrary this great nation affords religious freedom.

 

As for longing for Jerusalem yearly, it refers to the end of exile, when the Temple will be rebuilt and the coming of the Messiah. Even Jews who live in Jerusalem sing that as they can plainly see by looking at the golden dome of Al-Aqsa that the exile still exists and the Temple has not been rebuilt.

 

 

 

I am Jewish and considered Orthodox (perhaps modern Orthodox given today's preoccupation with labels).

Location:Miami, USA

Could you please tell us what importance of Jerusalem has in your religious life, since "next year in Jerusalem" is just a paperwork, not a longing after anymore?

[DADI]

 

 

Hungarian Jews were relocated to Auschwitz.

 

 

Yes, you have found the dash in my sentence - eagle eyes!

 

 

Thanks. OTOH - I said nothing about your choice of video ("next year in Jerusalem")..

(I often watch the video before posting it)

 

To be on topic: except those who were not / came back, and live here since then. Unfortunatelly you can't catch them this year living in a dire oppression and raging anti-semitism (which I express toward them, on a daily basis, of course), but try next year, sure you will find something interesting!

 

Wow! A Jewish festival in Budapest... That is really kind of Hungary (and Hungarians) to host us so kindly...

 

(Did you bother to read about the Budapest Synagogue and the treatment towards the Jews that surrounded that impressive piece of architecture?)

 

Ahh... Let bygones be bygones..

But, before I go into further gratitude... I shall google...

 

Anti Semitism taboo undr threat in Hungary

 

Hungary - Sliding Back to Nazi Era Anti Semitism

Edited September 11, 2014 by DADI

[Colin]

Is owning Mecca a tenant of the Islamic Faith?

 

Lets drive the Arabs out of Mecca and see how they respond for the next thousand years.

I love pointing out that the Muslims ethnically cleansed Arabia and perhaps we can return Medina to the Jews and Christians.

[mnm]

I love pointing out that the Muslims ethnically cleansed Arabia and perhaps we can return Medina to the Jews and Christians.

 

 

Not so fast!

 

No one can look at the kingdom of Jewish Arabia* without constant reference to its neighbors—the Ethiopians at Axum in East Africa, the Byzantines in Constantinople, the Jews in Jerusalem, the Sassanian Persians in Mesopotamia, and the Arab sheikhs who controlled the great tribes of the desert. Soon after 523 all these powerful interests had to confront a savage pogrom that the Jewish king of the Arabs launched against the Christians in the city of Najrān. The king himself reported in excruciating detail to his Arab and Persian allies about the massacres he had inflicted on all Christians who refused to convert to Judaism. News of his infamous actions rapidly spread across the Middle East. A Christian who happened to be present at a meeting of an Arab sheikh at which the Jewish king reported on his persecution was horrified and immediately sent out letters to inform Christian communities elsewhere. When word of the pogrom reached Axum in Christian Ethiopia, the king who had his capital there seized the opportunity to rally his troops and cross the Red Sea in aid of the Arabian Christians.

 

* In mothern Yemen, roughly.

 

The Throne of Adulis - Red Sea wars on the eve of Islam, G. W. Bowersock, ISBN 978-0-19-973932-5

[Adam Peter]

 

Wow! A Jewish festival in Budapest... That is really kind of Hungary (and Hungarians) to host us so kindly...

 

(Did you bother to read about the Budapest Synagogue and the treatment towards the Jews that surrounded that impressive piece of architecture?)

 

Remember that dash where you have stopped reading? There is my opinion about the subject, to the right of it.

 

 

Ahh... Let bygones be bygones..

 

But, before I go into further gratitude... I shall google...

 

Anti Semitism taboo undr threat in Hungary

Hungary - Sliding Back to Nazi Era Anti Semitism

 

You should not google. According to Google everybody doesn't want to shed russian or arab blood, doesn't want to give unlimited access to the easily liquidable money to foreigners (see Orban and the banks, insurance companies, retail stores, etc.), etc. is a bad man, and bad men are anti-semites*, too.

 

I have given you a sample how strong the anti-semitism really is here. From your link:

 

""On the basic level of safety, feeling safe, I never have second thoughts going out on the street at 11 o'clock at night, coming, going, which is very good," said Rabbi Baruch Oberlander, a child of Hungarian Holocaust survivors."

 

Nuff said. No one sets synagogues to fire here (like they do it in advanced western democracies), no one abducts teenagers here, in turn no one burns teenagers here, and no one confiscates private property here.

 

* especially if they support arabs

[Adam Peter]

My living and being a faithful American has not diminished my religious beliefs. To the contrary this great nation affords religious freedom.

 

As for longing for Jerusalem yearly, it refers to the end of exile, when the Temple will be rebuilt and the coming of the Messiah. Even Jews who live in Jerusalem sing that as they can plainly see by looking at the golden dome of Al-Aqsa that the exile still exists and the Temple has not been rebuilt.

 

Thanks for the answer. Honestly, I still does not see why you call it exile, and more importantly, how do you expect to these things to change without you joining them in Israel But of course I'm only an amhoorec.

[DADI]

Yes, Yes,

Ahmadinejad beat you to it....

We are not against the Jews, we're against the Zionists.. The Jews should go back to where they came from...

Holocaust didn't happen.. At least an independent inquiry committee would investigate what happened during the war...

Zionist conspiracy... Blah Blah Blah...

[Rod]

"Jews should go back where they came from"

So if that means Ashkenazi Jews go back to Europe and Sephardic Jews go to Arab countries. Then in Europe we have Europeans telling Jews to go where they came from (Hitler once thought about sending them to Madagascar) and Arab countries expelled Jews or told them to go back to Spain.

 

Eventually it all leads back to the land called Israel and the circle begins anew.

 

 

Yes, Yes,

Ahmadinejad beat you to it....

We are not against the Jews, we're against the Zionists.. The Jews should go back to where they came from...

Holocaust didn't happen.. At least an independent inquiry committee would investigate what happened during the war...

Zionist conspiracy... Blah Blah Blah...

 

[Rod]

Exile is in a religious term meaning that Jews do not have the Temple rebuilt. No Kohen Gadol (High Priest) to lead ceremonies and sacrifices. No Sanhedrin (the Jewish Supreme Court) and no sovereignty on the land. Even if you claim Israel is sovereign how really sovereign is that when a couple of Jews try to build some houses in a part of the land that is ancestral to them, the United Nations decides that it is so an important matter that it needs to pass resolutions condemning it. Therefore it is considered an exile. Many Israelis on the liberal side will not agree to that.

 

As for moving to Israel to hasten the end of exile there are many opinions on that arguing necessary and not (as usual in Jewish Law there are many opinions. Go see a Talmudic discussion to see how it can get. No wonder Jews tend to do well in the Legal profession).

 

What is an "amhoorec"? (Did you mean Am Haarezt?)

 

 

 

 

[Rod]

By the way, talking about exile and not having sovereignty in your own land:

Family attacked on way to Western Wall

Ramat Gan family recovering from near lynch attempt after Arabs threw rocks, bricks at their car when they took a wrong turn on the way to a Golani swearing-in ceremony in Jerusalem.

 

http://www.ynetnews.com/articles/0,7340,L-4570280,00.html

 

[Adam Peter]

 

Exile is in a religious term meaning that Jews do not have the Temple rebuilt. No Kohen Gadol (High Priest) to lead ceremonies and sacrifices. No Sanhedrin (the Jewish Supreme Court) and no sovereignty on the land. Even if you claim Israel is sovereign how really sovereign is that when a couple of Jews try to build some houses in a part of the land that is ancestral to them, the United Nations decides that it is so an important matter that it needs to pass resolutions condemning it. Therefore it is considered an exile. Many Israelis on the liberal side will not agree to that.

 

As for moving to Israel to hasten the end of exile there are many opinions on that arguing necessary and not (as usual in Jewish Law there are many opinions. Go see a Talmudic discussion to see how it can get. No wonder Jews tend to do well in the Legal profession).

 

What is an "amhoorec"? (Did you mean Am Haarezt?)

 

Thanks again for the answer. This means that you would move to Israel after the Messiah came? Or you could be doing regular visits to Jerusalem then while remaining in your current place?

This ancestral land thing is interesting, too. I'm sure someone forms a right to your current dwelling place on this base now

 

Yes, local ashkenazi dialect, and used it in it's "one, who doesn't know the Torah" meaning they use it. AFAIK I'm not Jew, but, despite DADI's opinion, I haven't consulted the local nazis about it.

[Rod]

When the Messiah comes, and if goes according to what is supposed to happen then YOU would want to move to Israel :-)

 

When I bought my house it is customary to purchase Title Insurance, so if there comes a claim on my property, then the Title Insurance would work to clear the title. :-)

 

Of course it won't work for claims by Indian tribes who lost a war against the White-skinned settlers. In that sense and given that Israel won the war, for those that don't follows religious claims of ownership, why the different treatment for Israel's military conquest?

 

Thanks again for the answer. This means that you would move to Israel after the Messiah came? Or you could be doing regular visits to Jerusalem then while remaining in your current place?

This ancestral land thing is interesting, too. I'm sure someone forms a right to your current dwelling place on this base now

 

Yes, local ashkenazi dialect, and used it in it's "one, who doesn't know the Torah" meaning they use it. AFAIK I'm not Jew, but, despite DADI's opinion, I haven't consulted the local nazis about it.

[Nobu]

The Associated Press is reporting that life in Gaza has returned to business as usual, with the cafes and wedding halls packed, and the streets filled with enjoyers of the lush clime and rich fish harvest. The photos accompanying the story show new model Toyota land cruisers on the streets and no signs of hunger or want.

 

Just a month ago, this place was where the world was led to believe was the second coming of Stalingrad.

 

In reality, this was simply what the Gazans must do in order to continue their multinational "we are suffering more than any other people on Earth" aid scam in perpetuity, especially when the world as a whole contains people fighting starvation, disease, poverty, and oppression who might divert precious and finite aid resources away from these suffering wretches who drive new automobiles and have ownership of prime Mediterranean real estate. A few days a year of attention getting by any means necessary.

 

The more the world sees Gazans for what they are, the more repulsed and disgusted the world becomes.

Edited September 16, 2014 by Nobu

[Rod]

No, the world won't care as long as it can use Gaza as a way to blame Israel.

=

 

The more the world sees Gazans for what they are, the more repulsed and disgusted the world becomes.

[Colin]

 

No, the world won't care as long as it can use Gaza as a way to blame Israel.

=

 

The more the world sees Gazans for what they are, the more repulsed and disgusted the world becomes.

 

yep, can't be openly anti-Semitic, so this way you can dress it up as "caring". I love how the Malay's "care" about their brothers in Gaza, but can't find the same love for their Indonesian Brothers that illegally or legally immigrated to Malaysia and can't find the time to even bother to think about their Kurdish brothers.

[Rickard N]

The Associated Press is reporting that life in Gaza has returned to business as usual, with the cafes and wedding halls packed, and the streets filled with enjoyers of the lush clime and rich fish harvest. The photos accompanying the story show new model Toyota land cruisers on the streets and no signs of hunger or want.

 

Just a month ago, this place was where the world was led to believe was the second coming of Stalingrad.

 

In reality, this was simply what the Gazans must do in order to continue their multinational "we are suffering more than any other people on Earth" aid scam in perpetuity, especially when the world as a whole contains people fighting starvation, disease, poverty, and oppression who might divert precious and finite aid resources away from these suffering wretches who drive new automobiles and have ownership of prime Mediterranean real estate. A few days a year of attention getting by any means necessary.

 

The more the world sees Gazans for what they are, the more repulsed and disgusted the world becomes.

There has also been reports of baker being totally destroyed and live stock dead because they were stopped from being fetched, So perhaps not so business as usual.

 

/R

[DADI]

The damages to the GS are not minor. Yet, the grand majority of Gazans were not effected directly.

A neighborhood that hosted attack tunnels, AT positions, mortar and mainly rocket positions, paid the price.

Hamas spokesman do not usually admit their own self created damage..

Placing bombs in a house, hoping to explode it on IDF troops, and executing the plan - They do not go out and say - We exploded the house.

The number of houses built with explosive charges exceeds hundreds..

I know of at least one case when a Hamas rocket malfunctioned and landed inside a U.N school in Gaza. Children were killed.

Hamas had, to the best of my knowledge, quite a few self inflicted rocket hits, spontaneous explosions of kinds we call "Working Accidents" and so on...

Using homes of families, with the family inside, as a trap to explode on IDF soldiers, is common..

You think the life stock, bakeries, water pumps or any other king of location, is somehow beyond their doings?

The used a "Hospital" as a spot to fire AT missiles, as well as mortar and sniper fire... That hospital for the elderly was not built on that specific location for medical reasons - But to serve as a military position. From its windows a Kornet that was fired at an Israeli school bus a while back..

Throughout the operation, Israel continued, as it does today, supplying food, fuel water and electricity to Gaza.

The few days the endless train of trucks stopped, was after Hamas targeted the unloading docks with mortar fire..

Again - The Damage in the GS is not small. But it is small enough for most Gazans to be un effected.

[glenn239]

But if Israel didn't supply food and water to Gaza strip even while at war with it, then Israel would set itself on a collision course with the world community.

[EchoFiveMike]

Shit, the last couple pages of this thread feels like I got trapped at one of the local delis where the old men loiter and argue for argument's sake endlessly. It's like they make you suffer to get good pastrami, lol.

 

Israel has it's land for the same reason any other population groups has land; because they beat the people who lived there previously and can successfully defend it against any who care to take it. You guys can argue about meaningless legal bullshit, but all that matters is power. And that's all that ever will, til the Sun burns out. S/F....Ken M

[DADI]

But if Israel didn't supply food and water to Gaza strip even while at war with it, then Israel would set itself on a collision course with the world community.

 

So..

Israel's supply of food, water, medicine, medical treatment to civilians, electricity etc. etc. etc.. To a terrorist political entity that is sworn to destroy Israel, while attempting to do just that (firing thousands of rockets to Israeli cities..) ...

It's just a symbol to the level of cunningness Israel has reached?

If I didn't know better, I would think that anything short of an Israeli suicide would leave you on the critic side..

BTW - What world community?

22 Arab League states?

57 Muslim states?

127 NAM states?

You mean a world community that is supportive of Israel, as long as it keeps feeding Hamastan?

[DADI]

Israel has it's land for the same reason any other population groups has land; because they beat the people who lived there previously and can successfully defend it against any who care to take it. You guys can argue about meaningless legal bullshit, but all that matters is power. And that's all that ever will, til the Sun burns out. S/F....Ken M

 

Yes, but Israel is the "Jewish state".

So as long as there is a Jewish state, there will be someone willing to say he was ripped off by the Yahud..

And the rest of the world will stand in line to continue and finance his campaign, terrorist and violent as it may be.

In this case - A whole Nation was invented for that goal - I give you - "The Palestinians".

[glenn239]

Israel's supply of food, water, medicine....to a terrorist political entity...

 

 

Israel supplies Gaza, not a terrorist political entity. Israel has precisely three choices in the matter -

 

1. Turn over responsibility to Gaza to the international community and drop the blockade.

2. Keep the blockade and take responsibility for humanitarian supply reaching Gaza.

3. Keep the blockade and deny humanitarian supply to Gaza.

 

(3) would lead to full-on confrontation with the US, and trust me on this one Dadi - you don't want that.

(1) would lead to the passification of Gaza and the road to the Two-State solution, and that means surrendering control of Jerusalem.

(2) keeps good relations with the US and keep Jerusalem.

 

(2) is Israel's best bet from a purely self-interested viewpoint.