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Armored Trains


John_Ford

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I'd say that regauging a switch is something that needs a shop. Modern switchs are not assembled in field.

 

I know there were some gauge changing facilities in the old Polish-Soviet border. They used truck changing, i.e. lift the car from one set of trucks, and put it on the trucks for new gauge.

 

And if there are some confusion between Brit rail terminology and American one, I beg for your understanding.

Edited by sunday
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Modern switches are not. Older switches were quite likely assembled on site. British 1940s practice was to assenble on a shop floor and then disassemble and reassembled in the field.

Edited by rmgill
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I often wonder why the Eastern bloc didnt stick was Russian gauge. I can only imagine it was the large mount of rolling stock still available in European gauge, and the impracticality of providing Russian gauge stock that dictated it. Im kind of surprised there wasnt remaining a through line in Russian gauge through poland though.

 

Correct me if I am wrong – as far as I understand gauge is not only rails size (relatively easy to change) but also dimensions of allowed cars\oversize, limited by all existing infrastructure. Rebuilding all infrastructure constructed in 100 previous years is probably too much, and without it just changing rail size is more or less useless since cars can't go through anyway….

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OK, maybe no gold for the Poles, but it may well be the last WWII armored train to be unearthed:

 

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/europe/polish-backtrack-over-wwii-nazi-gold-train-discovery-10479924.html

 

IIRC there were 5 or 6 ex-German and Italian armored trains, plus some armored motor-cars in Yugoslavian use post-ww2. Alas, they were all decommissioned in early '50s, locos had armor removed and used in regular service and most of vagons scrapped. Nothing remained of them. :(

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Thanks for that. The locos were interesting, they seemed based on a type that we built under licence here in the UK. Diesel Hydraulics I believe. Glad they survived.

 

Not the old v200, I suppose.

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Not the old v200, I suppose.

 

3 roadwheels per boogie version - V300. Those are in storage however (in poor state but repairable), since they were always considered mechanical nightmare (reason why not more of them were acquired and Yugoslavia got GE-EMD diesels) and restoration is too costly (it is still planned for a tourist train but gets delayed).

There are GE JT22CW-2 however and here is nicely restored one pulling "Blue train" on some special occasion from Belgrade RR station (behind it, another tourist train is parked, Romantika that goes Belgrade - Sremski Karlovci - Novi Sad route using steam engines.:

Another one in general service in 2006:

 

Maintenance, 2015. Like most old style GE diesels, those are almost indestructable and actually have quite low mileage on them.

Edited by bojan
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The hidraulic transmision of those locomotives had a mechanical step, and two hydraulic ones.

 

V200 in Spain were designated 340-series, but they were not successful, mainly because too much speed changes en route, using the mechanical step, that was originally designed to change from high speed passenger services to low speed freight service.

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Felt this belonged here....

11701177_717482678356138_810678942802172

When I was shopping for a present I found that there are Brio (toy rails made of wood) compatible Thomas & Friends locos being sold. And one of those offered was a german pre war Reichsbahn Diesel loco. So if one is good at wood cutting one could build a Wehrmacht train...

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Felt this belonged here....

11701177_717482678356138_810678942802172

When I was shopping for a present I found that there are Brio (toy rails made of wood) compatible Thomas & Friends locos being sold. And one of those offered was a german pre war Reichsbahn Diesel loco. So if one is good at wood cutting one could build a Wehrmacht train...

 

I remember back in the mid 90s deciding that my (then 4 year old nephew) should have a nice set of Brio trains and tracks. Then I went to the toy store and discovered that the price of those things was apparently tagged to the price of gold in some manner. I decided it was better to spend the rent money on rent and the nephew got some Hot Wheels for Christmas.

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I gather the Balts are slowly relaying their railway system to stephenson gauge, but it seems to be slow work. Ive never thought to find out if they originally used Stephenson or Russian gauge when originally laid, that might be quite interesting to learn if the Communists altered it to the Russian system.

 

 

Railways were originally laid in Russian system when built (in 1860s). During WW2 the system was converted to standard gauge (1941-1945) . Currently standard gauge is not yet built other than a short stretch in Lithuania near Polish border.

 

First route in standard gauge will be Rail Baltica (Tallinn-Riga-Kaunas-Poland), but it will not be finished before 2022, as it will be built on new route from scratch.

Edited by carrierlost
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Just seen this posted elsewhere; should be an interesting history story which-ever way this goes.

 

https://www.warhistoryonline.com/war-articles/nazi-treasure-train-update.html

 

I look forward to seeing more pictures of this in the near future (hopefully).

 

 

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I gather the Balts are slowly relaying their railway system to stephenson gauge, but it seems to be slow work. Ive never thought to find out if they originally used Stephenson or Russian gauge when originally laid, that might be quite interesting to learn if the Communists altered it to the Russian system.

 

Railways were originally laid in Russian (or should I say Texan system when built (in 1860s). During WW2 the system was converted to standard gauge (1941-1945) . Currently standard gauge is not yet built other than a short stretch in Lithuania near Polish border.

 

First route in standard gauge will be Rail Baltica (Tallinn-Riga-Kaunas-Poland), but it will not be finished before 2022, as it will be built on new route from scratch.

That probably makes sense, otherwise it will be interupting the freight traffic. Presumably at least some of the Russian gauge will be retained for through traffic to and from Russia?

 

Thanks for clearing that up, I did wonder.

Do not forget that Estland trades with finland. And the fi ns have russian gauge. Retaining some would make sense I think.

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That probably makes sense, otherwise it will be interupting the freight traffic. Presumably at least some of the Russian gauge will be retained for through traffic to and from Russia?

 

Thanks for clearing that up, I did wonder.

Do not forget that Estland trades with finland. And the fi ns have russian gauge. Retaining some would make sense I think.

 

 

AFAIK no current plans are in place to replace existing Russian gauge lines, only to build new southbound lines to Europe.

Trade with Finland I think rarely if at all is moved via rail, as it would have to go through Russia who deliberately hinders access to the rail infrastructure on regular bases (lines suddenly have no capacity or prices are raised through roof). And this has been going for several decades. So basically everything moves via ships, that there are plenty of. Something like 10-15 departures daily of large ferries 35-50000 GT shuttling between Tallinn and Helsinki.

 

There has been some talk about building a rail tunnel from Tallinn to Helsinki, but as distance (80km) is even bigger than Channel Tunnel (50km) and population density/traffic is much lower it would probably not be commercially viable.

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There are no rail ferries between finland and estonia? No need to go through Russia. Would be awkward anyway, why go through customs when you go to another Schengen state?

Nope, no rail ferries. Just up to 2000 lanemeters per ferry worth of vehicles.

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ym3FJjDWIzU

 

https://youtu.be/_ytp-qJNPbE?t=127

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I often wonder why the Eastern bloc didnt stick was Russian gauge. I can only imagine it was the large mount of rolling stock still available in European gauge, and the impracticality of providing Russian gauge stock that dictated it. Im kind of surprised there wasnt remaining a through line in Russian gauge through poland though.

Correct me if I am wrong – as far as I understand gauge is not only rails size (relatively easy to change) but also dimensions of allowed cars\oversize, limited by all existing infrastructure. Rebuilding all infrastructure constructed in 100 previous years is probably too much, and without it just changing rail size is more or less useless since cars can't go through anyway….

 

Few years ago EU Commission actually proposed that Finland and Baltic nations would switch to standard gauge. Proposal was rejected as quite insane.

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