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has anyone checked to see if a Movie/clip has been put on You Tube that has provoked this . Also are all Mossad people accounted for

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has anyone checked to see if a Movie/clip has been put on You Tube that has provoked this . Also are all Mossad people accounted for

Check the melons!

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Honestly, I think the Kurds are just happy to use this as an opportunity to take Kirkuk. They probably aren't too interested in starting a real war with ISIS.

Sky suggests they have taken Kirkuk at the request of the Government, rather than doing it off their own bat to start nation building. OTOH, they would say that wouldn't they. :)

 

I'm already waiting for a referendum about the political status of Kirkuk region...and the results are in! 89% favour annexation of Kirkuk by Kurdistan...well that was a surprise...

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.

 

I seem to remember the USA promising Turkey that the Iraq/Afghanistan operations would NOT end in separate Kurdish areas.

 

Still "Job Done".

 

Seriously I can see Iran itching to get involved (but they are too busy with Syria) and Russia will be mightily P***-Off after all that help they gave the US over Iraq they are likely to have more failed islamic states south of their borders.

 

I can only imagine that the French and Chinese are at all happy with how things are going.

 

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I'm torn between which of those two would possibly be more popcorn-worthy. Of course I tend to say that "if in doubt, chose both".

 

Iraq crisis: ISIS militants push towards Baghdad - live


Senior Tehran official says leadership discussing cooperation with United States in face of insurgent threat in region, as militants battle Iraqi security forces 50 miles from Baghdad - follow latest developments

 

[...]

 

10.17

 

In the midst of the chaos, the prospect has been raised of an unlikely alliance between Iran and the US as both seek to counter a common enemy.

 

A senior Iranian official has told Reuters that the leadership of the Shia state is discussing possible cooperation with Washington in providing support to Iraq government in its battle with al-Qaeda-inspired militants.

 

The Islamic Republic is reportedly planning to send its neighbour advisers and arms, although probably not troops, to help Iraqi Prime Minister Nouri al-Maliki push back fighters from ISIS, the breakaway Sunni al-Qaeda group.

 

"We can work with Americans to end the insurgency in the Middle East," the official said, referring to the crisis in Iraq.

 

"We are very influential in Iraq, Syria and many other countries."

 

ISIS is one of the key players in the battle to overthrow Syrian President Bashar al-Assad, a key Iranian ally, and its regional rise has rattled Tehran.

 

"The danger of extremist Sunni terrorist in Iraq and the region is increasing ... There have been several high-ranking security meetings since yesterday in Tehran," the official said.

 

"We are on alert and we also follow the developments in Iraq very closely."

 

[...]

 

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/middleeast/iraq/10892299/Iraq-crisis-ISIS-militants-push-towards-Baghdad-live.html

 

China says willing to help Iraq in any way it can

23 minutes ago

BEIJING (Reuters) - China said on Friday that it was watching security developments in Iraq closely after Islamist fighters captured two more towns in a sweep south, and offered the government in Baghdad whatever help it can give.

 

China is the top foreign player in Iraq's oilfields, which are the largest in the Middle East open to foreign investment, and has a natural interest in the country's stability.

 

"China is paying close attention to the recent security situation in Iraq and we support the Iraqi government's efforts to maintain domestic security and stability. We hope that Iraq can return to stability, safety and normality as early as possible," Foreign Ministry spokeswoman Hua Chunying said.

 

"For a long time, China has been giving Iraq a large amount of all sorts of aid and is willing to give whatever help it is able to," she told a daily news briefing without elaborating.

 

China had asked Iraq's government to ensure the safety of Chinese people in the country, Hua said, though she did not say if any there had been any effect on China's oil interests in the country.

 

State-run China National Petroleum Corporation (CNPC), China's biggest oil and gas producer, has three projects in Iraq, in the south and southeast of the country.

 

http://news.yahoo.com/china-says-willing-help-iraq-way-114744608.html

Edited by BansheeOne
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Totally defeating them is probably difficult, but they should be able to reduce the problem. All the press they have gotten have at least guaranteed american drones. Keeping them from rolling up 800 guys in pickups, or freely moving from Syria to iraq should do a lot.

In an ideal world, Obama's gambit of B-2s to forward basing in Europe would have been in response to Iraqi developments. A few carpet-bombings of the bad guys may have softened them up to the point where the Iraqi army felt confident they could clean up the remainder.

 

 

Yes, carpet bombing Iraqi Sunni cities is going to make them love invading Shia forces. It's not only ISIS fighting against Iraqi government.

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If you dont want the Taliban problem to remeerge in Afghanistan, yes I think it does. Im asking about whether post conflict funding is actually working, not interested in Partisan swipes FYI.

 

 

So did they get the funding or not?

 

 

First, at this point I believe the idea is to lay the ground work for the reemergence of the Taliban. It's the only way to explain the otherwise inexplicable release of five senior officials of the Taliban regime. So it really isn't about what I want.

 

Second, you and many others spare no time reminding us that our critique of US foreign policy etc. is partisan in nature, consider my response as a preemptive strike.

 

Third, keep in mind that rare, almost unheard of, are there ever "cuts" to any US budget. When you hear or read "cut" think not getting as much of the rise in spending as hoped.

 

Fourth, don't know and don't care.

Edited by DKTanker
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Well, the mission was accomplished in 2003, they so they should be.

 

 

 

And the US Military marched out of Iraq in 2010 a victorious army that, with a concerted effort in 2009 and 2010, left Iraq safe, secure, and stable.

 

The money quote from The Veep.

 

 

"I spent -- I've been there 17 times now. I go about every two months -- three months. I know every one of the major players in all of the segments of that society. It's impressed me. I've been impressed how they have been deciding to use the political process rather than guns to settle their differences."

 

True in 2010. Not today. The Veep is a moron. That's a given. But in 2010, things were functioning.

 

There are numerous reasons why Iraq has gone down this road. But there are a helluva lot more reasons created from 2003 to 2009, than from 2009 onward.

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True in 2010. Not today. The Veep is a moron. That's a given. But in 2010, things were functioning.

 

 

There are numerous reasons why Iraq has gone down this road. But there are a helluva lot more reasons created from 2003 to 2009, than from 2009 onward.

 

The adults, the ones with real experience and Nobel Peace prizes, are in charge and they said they could fix anything and everything. To include Iraq, Afghanistan, and keeping the sea from rising.

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True in 2010. Not today. The Veep is a moron. That's a given. But in 2010, things were functioning.

 

 

There are numerous reasons why Iraq has gone down this road. But there are a helluva lot more reasons created from 2003 to 2009, than from 2009 onward.

 

The adults, the ones with real experience and Nobel Peace prizes, are in charge and they said they could fix anything and everything. To include Iraq, Afghanistan, and keeping the sea from rising.

 

 

Jesus, Obama must have kicked your dog or somthing. Or are we really that myopic? This place really sounds like a mirror image Democraticunderground some times.

 

OTOTH you managed to get Stuart to curse in a post (even after an edit) so you must get some kind of award for that. :ph34r:

Edited by Paul G.
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And yes, I believe Iraq and Afghanistan ought to be stabilised. It was your good self who has stated time and again they want to withdraw from the entire middle east and put a ring fence around it. Also, don't you think it was your (and my) desire to keep the US out of Syria that has contributed to the shitstorm this situation has now turned into? The irony, we actually agreed on something for once and we both turned out to be wrong.

 

 

The bolded bit, I don't know who "they" are, but I generally agree with the proposition, though I don't recall having said as much in so many words.

 

Regarding Syria, I believe US and western involvement in Syria, on the side of the insurgency, helped create the environment from which ISIS has arisen.

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has anyone checked to see if a Movie/clip has been put on You Tube that has provoked this . Also are all Mossad people accounted for

Check the melons!

 

Wanted to add something concerning the young lady this morning on the bus... :ph34r:

 

Anyway, it is a serious development and it looks like sealing the "three state solution". At least de facto, not de iure - I for one do not think the new Iraqi army would be able to do more than stop / contain the advance, even with outside help, unless Iran does a full-scale intervetnion (which it won't)

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Jesus, Obama must have kicked your dog or somthing. Or are we really that myopic? This place really sounds like a mirror image Democraticunderground some times.

 

OTOTH you managed to get Stuart to curse in a post so you must get some kind of award for that. :ph34r:

 

I didn't start it, I was perfectly content to talk about what was actually happening now, but two others decided they had to inject politics, one quite overtly, into the discussion. So flay at your strawman with them.

 

I don't know about Democrat Underground, not a place I hang out.

Edited by DKTanker
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Just had a thought. I wonder how the ME would have turned out now if Bush had never invaded?

 

1. Would Iraq be in the same shitstorm Syria is now? I mean look at Egypt, Lybia, Tunisa, would Iraq be in the same boat?

 

2. Would the Arab spring even have occured in the first place without the US invasion? I mean it had obviously been simmering, but perhaps it was one of the factors to contributed.

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Take the entire thread into consideration Dave. Don't let your ODS myopia cloud your judgement. It wasn't until someone noted that Obama wasn't the singular cause of what is currently happening in Iraq that you changed directions.

 

It is imperative that the one who started the mess own it. Those who follow are merely enablers.

 

This being Tanknet though, not many are willing to note that ODS is as pervasive now as BDS was during the previous administration.

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Just had a thought. I wonder how the ME would have turned out now if Bush had never invaded?

 

1. Would Iraq be in the same shitstorm Syria is now? I mean look at Egypt, Lybia, Tunisa, would Iraq be in the same boat?

 

2. Would the Arab spring even have occured in the first place without the US invasion? I mean it had obviously been simmering, but perhaps it was one of the factors to contributed.

 

1. Short answer, yes.

2. Maybe, but invasion sure made things easier....

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Call me an idiot, because I hear (2) a lot, but how did our invasion of Iraq have all that much to do with the Arab Spring? The plan to set up Iraq as some shining example of democracy for the region to emulate didn't work out all that great, and most of the guys who overthrew their governments weren't exactly pro-U.S..

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Just had a thought. I wonder how the ME would have turned out now if Bush had never invaded?

 

1. Would Iraq be in the same shitstorm Syria is now? I mean look at Egypt, Lybia, Tunisa, would Iraq be in the same boat?

 

2. Would the Arab spring even have occured in the first place without the US invasion? I mean it had obviously been simmering, but perhaps it was one of the factors to contributed.

I have thought about it and it scares the shit out of me, we would have ran working hard on Nukes, Saddam rapidly rebuilding his military and to counter Iran and West, focusing on WMD's first. Pakistan would help Iraq with the Nuke program. At some point Iran and Iraq would likely have a go at each other with at least tactical nukes and other WMD being used again.

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If Intel people did not anticipate something happening there is a problem - if the bad can organise this in secret we are in for bad times

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Gee, who misses the old days of Saddam

 

We had many arguments on this site back in the day about what to do with the Iraqi army. The US at the time unemployed them, fired those Col and above. Now we know where those guys went. We should have offered them jobs and kept them going

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