Kiev Is Burning

[seahawk]

And as they constantly advancing the tactics seem to work.

[Roman Alymov]

52 minutes ago, Stuart Galbraith said:

Yes, real life infantry attacks I know a very little about thanks. I dont think throwing endless bodies at a position to absorb enemy fire warrants as real light infantry tactics,

Let's put it straight: You claimed "Russian meatwaves"  - i have pointed out this practice simply do not exist. Practice that exist is called "meat attacks" or "meat assaults" but it is completely different from "waves" as "meat assaults" is the practice of tiny groups of infantrymen (sometimes even individual soldiers) sent to cross "dead zone" (going from one small cover to another, hiding from always present drones) and to capture this or that position (usually not guarded at all or guarded by equally tiny group of enemy soldiers, equally tired by endless drones attacks, lack of food, no way to keep warm in freezing temperature etc.) It is the practice to MINIMIZE losses while achieving at least SOME progress. Do you see the difference? 

52 minutes ago, Stuart Galbraith said:

And in what parallel universe do people use wounded soldiers on the front line? Even the Germans in WW2 only filled medical battaliions with people that could still walk.

Germans in WWII were fighting the war with mobilisation and all things associated. Russian Army is fighting the war the very existance of wich is officially ignored (if not denied), against opponent about 2 times more numerous.  No surprise wounded (and even disabled) soldiers are sent back before proper recovery. Your problem is you do not take your time to do the homework of learning Russian or at least reading my post - othervice you would know the famous Yakut man who was caught on camera during now-famous knifefight was by that time disabled, and that he was sent to take the position in meatwave of two men

  From my message www.tanknet.org/index.php?/topic/47806-war-in-ukraine-technical-and-military-aspects-only/page/420/#comment-1790049

" For example, from this interview with the Yakutia guy, you might have had learned that:

1) By the moment he was sent to this mission, he was de-facto disabled, as one of his arms was badly ingured back in spring and he never recovered its function. As result, even despite capturing stock of pro-Ukr weapons in one of the buildings of the village, he was not able to load machinegun he got there, so he met another group of pro-Ukrainains sent to kill him by three AKs he prepared in advance to maintain fire (i would not be surprised if he was also in trouble reloading AKs quickly, but he is not saying this directly). 

2) Despite of being "experienced soldier" to the moment of this battle, he was not aware how to use captured Smerch thermobaric RPG, so not even tried despite of havinc captured them - instead, he used old good RPG (luckily, it was enough as pro-Ukrainians arrived on single armored vehicle, probably MRAP).

3) The building he and his friend were sent to raise flag on, turned out "enemy HQ" - pro-Russian command was not aware of that, as result they were sent de-facto to death trap. His friend was killed immidiately near this HQ, and "Yakut" escaped alive by chance

    And so on, each part of this story is far more telling (while still factual) then typical "Anton Geraschenko-type" stories pro-Western cheer team regularly dug up from X."

Edited January 23 by Roman Alymov

[Daan]

Footage of Russian troops shooting a number of Ukrainian prisoners:

https://x.com/visegrad24/status/1882348267000004667

[mkenny]

42 minutes ago, Daan said:

Footage of Russian troops shooting a number of Ukrainian prisoners:

https://x.com/visegrad24/status/1882348267000004667

The claim there is no film of Ukrainians shooting prisoners is  false. The earliest film I know  (from both sides) of these type of killing is of  3 'surrounded' Russians who were persuaded to give up and as soon as they stepped out of a building they were shot. 

[seahawk]

Yes and it was one of the first war crimes documented in the war.

[Mighty_Zuk]

Executing POWs is almost always a very stupid thing to do.

[bojan]

+ lot to MZ post

OTOH, I think it is unavoidable in the war lasting long enough, only question is how often it happens, because if it happens too often it is sure sign of the breakdown in discipline.

2 hours ago, MiGG0 said:

And you still believe these propaganda medias....

Why do you expect from someone who has never served to understand section, platoon and company movement?

[MiGG0]

17 minutes ago, bojan said:

+ lot to MZ post

 

  

Why do you expect from someone who has never served to understand section, platoon and company movement?

Well, in link I posted, I tough it is described pretty clearly? Even example of NK troops doing pretty much as expected (when "media" descripes it as "human wave attacks"). Critisism is mainly lack of RUS fire support for attacking NK troops (artillery, smoke, etc), but even that might be happening and video is just edited so that you cannot see UKR positions and receiving fire that they get, etc.

Edited January 23 by MiGG0

[mkenny]

40 minutes ago, Mighty_Zuk said:

Executing POWs is almost always a very stupid thing to do.

Stupid, wrong or any other word you choose but its very understandable IN SOME SITUATIONS.

For example a Sniper who perhaps kills  2 or 3 of the men seeking him out is very unlikely to be taken alive by his captors. 

It is never going to work out well for anyone if his life depends on the mercy of the friends of someone he has just killed. 

Edited January 23 by mkenny

[Mighty_Zuk]

1 hour ago, mkenny said:

Stupid, wrong or any other word you choose but its very understandable IN SOME SITUATIONS.

For example a Sniper who perhaps kills  2 or 3 of the men seeking him out is very unlikely to be taken alive by his captors. 

It is never going to work out well for anyone if his life depends on the mercy of the friends of someone he has just killed. 

Believe it or not but POWs are still taken even if you don't exactly want to have sex with the prisoner. Even if he killed some of your friends.

But there's a caveat in the LOAC about POWs and that is that one must only take surrendering personnel hostage if it is viable.

If it's not viable, one may just kill them.

[TonyE]

2 hours ago, mkenny said:

Stupid, wrong or any other word you choose but its very understandable IN SOME SITUATIONS.

For example a Sniper who perhaps kills  2 or 3 of the men seeking him out is very unlikely to be taken alive by his captors. 

It is never going to work out well for anyone if his life depends on the mercy of the friends of someone he has just killed. 

I would guess that any captures drone-jockeys would not be very popular with their captors either.

[Stefan Kotsch]

We know, for example, how the Russian police behave towards those arrested. The tone in the Russian army has always been extremely rough. And we know that the majority of enlisted soldiers come from humble backgrounds. We know also that living together in the former Soviet Union / Russia was never particularly sensitive and empathic.

The war is like a catalyst and reinforces this. Of course, all parties involved are always affected.

So welcome to war I'm just saying.

Edited January 23 by Stefan Kotsch

[glenn239]

2 hours ago, mkenny said:

 

For example a Sniper who perhaps kills  2 or 3 of the men seeking him out is very unlikely to be taken alive by his captors. 

I've seen it reported that drone operators are executed immediately upon capture and identification as such. 

For all the knashing about the execution of POW's in this war, the number of videos seems to be very small in number, keeping in mind the scale of casualties, duration of conflict and scope of drone video coverage.

[Roman Alymov]

4 hours ago, glenn239 said:

I've seen it reported that drone operators are executed immediately upon capture and identification as such. 

For all the knashing about the execution of POW's in this war, the number of videos seems to be very small in number, keeping in mind the scale of casualties, duration of conflict and scope of drone video coverage.

See my old post about that

 

The real question is why this video surfaced on pro-Ukr channels today? I think here is the answer

Kiev Gov is in bad need to keep troops surrounded in Velikaya Novoselovka to fight to last man, not to surrender.

Also, today pro-Ukr troops blew up highway junction on important highway from Pokrovsk to Konstantinovka

https://t.me/infomil_live/14302

https://t.me/milinfolive/140400

 

[seahawk]

Well you can not have survivors to tell the tale of how hopeless the pro-Ukrainian situation is.

[Stuart Galbraith]

So this is absolutely hilarious. We go from despondency, despair, rage, defiance and psycopathy, all in 8 and a half minutes.

 

[Yama]

20 hours ago, Mighty_Zuk said:

Believe it or not but POWs are still taken even if you don't exactly want to have sex with the prisoner. Even if he killed some of your friends.

But there's a caveat in the LOAC about POWs and that is that one must only take surrendering personnel hostage if it is viable.

If it's not viable, one may just kill them.

If the deaths of three Israeli hostages in Dec 15 2023 is any indication, seems IDF relies on "not viable" line quite often...

[glenn239]

15 hours ago, Roman Alymov said:

 

The real question is why this video surfaced on pro-Ukr channels today? I think here is the answer

 

 

Western media has been running some sort of organized psy ops thing since the start of the war.  Remember all the coordinated stories on how the Russian mobilization was a disaster?  I think it peaked at maybe 6-8 stories with that tag line in my newsfeed at once.  Then one day someone decided it wasn't working and it all disappeared.

I saw a report this morning that the North Korean 170's are absolutely fucking brutal.  They're like FAB's, but with time on target in minutes instead of hours.

[Mighty_Zuk]

2 hours ago, Yama said:

If the deaths of three Israeli hostages in Dec 15 2023 is any indication, seems IDF relies on "not viable" line quite often...

That's not true. The IDF took thousands of POWs. You're using an unrelated case to make an unrelated point.

[Yama]

5 hours ago, Mighty_Zuk said:

That's not true. The IDF took thousands of POWs. You're using an unrelated case to make an unrelated point.

They were shot while trying to surrender, it's obvious the case was notable only because the victims happened to be Israeli. And it's not the only case of its kind.

[Roman Alymov]

FiberFPV vs. Bärgningsbandvagn 90 (Bgbv 90) ARV, Kursk region. Note road conditions and lack of any anti-drone cover on the vehicle https://t.me/infomil_live/14335

[TonyE]

The Bgbv 90 posted by Roman, incase telegram link cannot be viewed:

 

[glenn239]

2 hours ago, Roman Alymov said:

FiberFPV vs. Bärgningsbandvagn 90 (Bgbv 90) ARV, Kursk region. Note road conditions and lack of any anti-drone cover on the vehicle https://t.me/infomil_live/14335

It's also noteworthy that most Ukrainian equipment being destroyed these days is Western.  The UA started the war with huge numbers of Soviet vehicles, and thousands more poured in from outside.  Yet these days, the vids suggest that almost all of it is gone.

[Mighty_Zuk]

10 hours ago, Yama said:

They were shot while trying to surrender, it's obvious the case was notable only because the victims happened to be Israeli. And it's not the only case of its kind.

Gaza is an urban environment. You should be aware by now that the majority of combat in Ukraine is done in open and rural areas.

[seahawk]

7 hours ago, glenn239 said:

It's also noteworthy that most Ukrainian equipment being destroyed these days is Western.  The UA started the war with huge numbers of Soviet vehicles, and thousands more poured in from outside.  Yet these days, the vids suggest that almost all of it is gone.

As is mot of the western equipment. The Ukraine is about to collapse.