Kiev Is Burning

[urbanoid]

Just now, Stuart Galbraith said:

Well yes, but it would still have been less than sub optimal, which is what we actually did. Im not sure what exaclty we are arguing about here.

For me the real betrayedoccurred in 1938. Everything that followed from that, from the Anschluss and the abandonment of Czechoslovakia just ran on rails.

 

You did pretty much everything that could have been done and also what you promised to do, the most important thing here being declaring war in the first place. France and UK have been strangling Germany simply by existing, as they were blocking the deliveries of strategic resources. No one predicted that Poland would fall that quickly, same for France actually.

Just now, mkenny said:

Britain declared war. That is  the exact opposite of 'doing nothing'. The reality was that there was nothing the UK could do to stop Poland being defeated. There never was a plan to attack Germany in 1939-40 and 'save Poland.  

There was a limited French offensive on 5th or 6th Sep 1939, a bigger one was called off when the Soviets invaded from the East. 

[glenn239]

46 minutes ago, Yama said:

Yeah, Poland was betrayed by USSR, not the Allied. 

The Soviets would have been quite surprised to discover that they owed Poland jack shit for anything. 

[urbanoid]

1 minute ago, glenn239 said:

The Soviets would have been quite surprised to discover that they owed Poland jack shit for anything. 

Apart from the still valid non-aggression pact, nothing indeed.

[glenn239]

3 minutes ago, urbanoid said:

Apart from the still valid non-aggression pact, nothing indeed.

Huh, never even knew there was one....

[glenn239]

32 minutes ago, urbanoid said:

You did pretty much everything that could have been done and also what you promised to do, the most important thing here being declaring war in the first place. 

Chamberlain did.  And that's Stuart's actual problem.  It was Chamberlain that went to war for Poland.

[Stuart Galbraith]

I love how you keep telling me what my problem is. I thank you kindly, but I've never been shy in forthcoming about my problems.

[mkenny]

38 minutes ago, Stuart Galbraith said:

I love how you keep telling me what my problem is. I thank you kindly, but I've never been shy in forthcoming about my problems.

Just admitting you have a 'problem' is a big step forward!

[Stuart Galbraith]

Well, I can only sumise I'm streets ahead of your good self then.

[Roman Alymov]

Relatively fresh documentary by Nadana Fridrikson about VDV actions in Chasov Yar (in Russian)

 

[Pavel Novak]

16 hours ago, glenn239 said:

Huh, never even knew there was one....

Treaties with Moscow. Yesterday, today ... still same.

But because of that many "friendly" treaties Russians always claim how peaceful and cultural they are. That these treaties are so easily broken by Moscow is another thing.

[Roman Alymov]

On 11/3/2024 at 1:01 AM, Roman Alymov said:

Documentary about the work of RusArmy recovery groups who are collecting dead from the "dead zone" https://t.me/VoenCanal/5571

Now on YouTube

 

[X-Files]

You can't make this up.

 

US can't confirm North Korean soldiers in Russia hooked on porn after getting internet access

[glenn239]

4 hours ago, Pavel Novak said:

Treaties with Moscow. Yesterday, today ... still same.

But because of that many "friendly" treaties Russians always claim how peaceful and cultural they are. That these treaties are so easily broken by Moscow is another thing.

Generally speaking, non-aggression pacts have less credibility in international relations than do alliances.

No doubt you are more familiar with the history than I am, but I see in reading this morning, I see that Moscow first threatened Warsaw with the denouncement of the non-aggression pact in 1938.  This was during the Munich Crisis when the USSR was partially mobilizing to deter Germany, and Poland then sided with Hitler, both to block cooperation in the defense of the Czechs by the Soviets, as well as to annex parts of Slovakia by force.  

 Poland, now having done this and helping to cause a geopolitical vacuum in Central Europe that had blown Soviet security wide open, you suggest that in the case of the pending Nazi-Polish war in 1939 that the Soviets should stick to the letter of the treaty and allow Hitler to occupy all of Poland?   The Poles vetoed Soviet troops on their soil in 1939.  The Soviets could never tolerate Germany having a border right up on the outskirts of Minsk.

[Ssnake]

2 hours ago, X-Files said:

You can't make this up.

The Kremlin did not respond to The Post’s request for comment.

[Stuart Galbraith]

They will probably ban it and force the poor bastards to watch Rushub. 60 year old Babushka's pulling tricks for Potato's and Lada parts.

 

[Stuart Galbraith]

https://x.com/mouw5284/status/1854298863294661015?t=sI3cua_G-aMPPAaLeFeiMw&s=19

AS90s depart to Ukraine.

[Roman Alymov]

2 hours ago, glenn239 said:

 Poland, now having done this and helping to cause a geopolitical vacuum in Central Europe that had blown Soviet security wide open, you suggest that in the case of the pending Nazi-Polish war in 1939 that the Soviets should stick to the letter of the treaty and allow Hitler to occupy all of Poland?   The Poles vetoed Soviet troops on their soil in 1939.  The Soviets could never tolerate Germany having a border right up on the outskirts of Minsk.

    Important aspect Westerners tend to forget is that USSR in 1939 have not occupied part of Poland  -but actually the lands that are now Western Belorussia and Western Ukraine (and also happy NATO member Lithuania - see the story of how Vilnus/Vilno became Polish city).  If West is so unhappy abpout what barbaric Russians did - well, they could push Lituanian capital back to Kaunas and make Vilnus Vilno again - it will only take some paperwork, no need for war....

[Roman Alymov]

3 hours ago, X-Files said:

You can't make this up.

US can't confirm North Korean soldiers in Russia hooked on porn after getting internet access

North Korea is so advanced on high tech that their soldiers are able to connect to Internet without devices, by bare brain effort? The most obvious thing any reasonable military do when moving troops on classified mission is to prevent soldiers from using (and having) any sort of mobile devices that could be connected to Internet (and even cellular network).

[Stefan Kotsch]

15 minutes ago, Roman Alymov said:

USSR in 1939 have not occupied part of Poland

This is on the same level as Putin in February 2024. He compared himself to Hitler and put himself on the same level as him. BTW, after the occupation of Poland, Stalin's assassination squads set out to begin their work in Poland.

[Roman Alymov]

25 minutes ago, Stefan Kotsch said:

This is on the same level as Putin in February 2024. He compared himself to Hitler and put himself on the same level as him. BTW, after the occupation of Poland, Stalin's assassination squads set out to begin their work in Poland.

So what, Poland was compromising? Let's face it, Poland was just one of imperialist powers of the time and was quite happy to create ultimatums and use military force when possible 

   For example 1938 Polish ultimatum to Lithuania - Wikipedia

Re "Stalin's assassination squads" - my Grandfather, young artillery officer, took part in liberation of West Ukraine and West Belorussia. And taking into consideration the fate of Red Army soldiers captured by Poles in 1920 (just 19 years before 1939), i think there was no shortage of people happy to join "assassination squads" to pay back the debt to Polish officials and officers (also, for a reasons, at least part of local population of liberated terrotories was also not exactly demonstrating good will to Poles who happened to stay on this bloody lands - see Volhynian massacre - Wikipedia )

 Efforts to portray Poland state as  innocent victim amid this centuries-long tit for tat are not going to work.

[Stuart Galbraith]

Basically you are condemning Poland for what you assert was perfectly reasonable for Stalin to be doing in Poland, Finland and Transnistria. You see the problem with that, right?

Edited November 7, 2024 by Stuart Galbraith

[Roman Alymov]

1 minute ago, Stuart Galbraith said:

Basically you are condemning Poland for what you assert was perfectly reasonable for Stalin to be doing in Poland and Transnistria. You see the problem with that, right?

   I am not "condemning Poland", i am pointing out that when two imperialist predator states - Germany and Poland - finally clashed (after "eating" smaller states around), the outcome was predictable, and if Poland's leadership in its arrogance or incompetence (or both) was unable or unwilling to see it coming  - it is their problem. Was that clash avoidable? Probably not for many reasons, but discussing it here will take us far away off topic. What happened  - happened, and regular Poles have paid terrible price for what their rulling class did. After all, it was this nobiles/ruling class who have played significant role in erroding Russian Empire and, as result, bringing "Stalin" to power.  Do i have to remind you Feliks Dzierżyński was Polish aristocrat (though from family that became pope by XIX century)?

[Stefan Kotsch]

16 minutes ago, Roman Alymov said:

hink there was no shortage of people happy to join "assassination squads" to pay back

The small difference is that the Soviet killings in the neighboring states (Poland was not alone here) were carried out by the state. Under the express orders of the government. It is not the result of the excesses of individual soldiers or groups of soldiers. The Soviet killings were state doctrine and were carried out systematically. There was only one other state that handled it the same way.
 

[mkenny]

1 hour ago, Stuart Galbraith said:

Basically you are condemning Poland for what you assert was perfectly reasonable for Stalin to be doing in Poland, Finland and Transnistria. You see the problem with that, right?

Poland helped  herself to parts of  Czechoslovakia.

Let him who is without sin cast the first stone...................

[Stuart Galbraith]

Parts of Czechoslovakia, not annexation yes?

So Poland 'deserved' to be annexed, because?...