TonyE Posted September 14, 2023 Share Posted September 14, 2023 There's multiple floating drydocks in Novorossiysk, one of which is repairing the Olenegorsky Gornyak at the moment. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RETAC21 Posted September 14, 2023 Share Posted September 14, 2023 4 minutes ago, Stuart Galbraith said: According to the Montreaux convention, wouldnt they be barred at removing any vessels from the Black Sea till the war ends? No, why? and who would enforce it? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stuart Galbraith Posted September 14, 2023 Share Posted September 14, 2023 9 hours ago, Yama said: It's hard to gauge damage to submarine from those pics. It looks like there is some kind of hole in its side, but that may be some kind of picture artifact. Landing ship is 40 years old and likely economical loss, but they may still repair it for prestige reasons. Submarine is valuable, though they still have 6 on Black Sea. But the point is, they dont have it till they repair it. And as other have pointed out, it may well be this winter they are going to need every vessel they can fine to take cargo to and from Crimea if they have 'issues' with the bridge. Supposedly the southern Ukraine railway line is already being little used, because ts getting too close to the battlefront to utilize. I think they might be able to save the boat. But I think that bow is seriously damaged (yes, might be wrong but thats how it looks to me), and judging by how slow Russian shipyards are these days, it could well be wholly obsolete by the time they get around building a new bow. If nothing else its going to disrupt boats they have already in the building pipeline. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stuart Galbraith Posted September 14, 2023 Share Posted September 14, 2023 Just now, RETAC21 said: No, why? and who would enforce it? Im sorry, I thought that the treated forbade anyone using the Bosphorous in wartime for combatants. I didnt think it was just one way, or exempted battle damaged vessels. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
seahawk Posted September 14, 2023 Share Posted September 14, 2023 Which war? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stuart Galbraith Posted September 14, 2023 Share Posted September 14, 2023 Just now, seahawk said: Which war? Ah, my bad. Â Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stuart Galbraith Posted September 14, 2023 Share Posted September 14, 2023 Yes, I knew I didnt imagine it. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Montreux_Convention_Regarding_the_Regime_of_the_Straits 'In time of war, Turkey not being belligerent, warships of belligerent Powers shall not pass, except i.a. to return to their base. (art. 19)' Rosov au Donu has been part of the Black Sea fleet for many years. So she is pretty much home ported, unless they can somehow refloat her and take her to Novorossisk for exended repair. Minsk is from the Baltic Fleet, so she conceivably could. If she hasnt broken her back. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RETAC21 Posted September 14, 2023 Share Posted September 14, 2023 15 minutes ago, Stuart Galbraith said: Yes, I knew I didnt imagine it. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Montreux_Convention_Regarding_the_Regime_of_the_Straits 'In time of war, Turkey not being belligerent, warships of belligerent Powers shall not pass, except i.a. to return to their base. (art. 19)' Rosov au Donu has been part of the Black Sea fleet for many years. So she is pretty much home ported, unless they can somehow refloat her and take her to Novorossisk for exended repair. Minsk is from the Baltic Fleet, so she conceivably could. If she hasnt broken her back. Oh, but it's not a warship anymore, the Russian navy can decommission it and it will become scrap You need to think like a lawyer. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stuart Galbraith Posted September 14, 2023 Share Posted September 14, 2023 Fair enough. Â Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
seahawk Posted September 14, 2023 Share Posted September 14, 2023 (edited) And as I said: Which war? No war has been officially declared according to Russia. Edited September 14, 2023 by seahawk Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Markus Becker Posted September 14, 2023 Share Posted September 14, 2023 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ssnake Posted September 14, 2023 Share Posted September 14, 2023 🤣 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ink Posted September 14, 2023 Share Posted September 14, 2023 6 minutes ago, Ssnake said: 🤣 Yeah, that's a good one! 👌 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
urbanoid Posted September 14, 2023 Share Posted September 14, 2023 Â Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stuart Galbraith Posted September 14, 2023 Share Posted September 14, 2023 1 hour ago, Markus Becker said: Â Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yama Posted September 14, 2023 Share Posted September 14, 2023 33 minutes ago, urbanoid said: What "$1.2 billion anti-aircraft complex" would be that? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
urbanoid Posted September 14, 2023 Share Posted September 14, 2023 Twatter is twatting about S-400 complex destroyed with Neptunes/UAVs in Crimea. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stuart Galbraith Posted September 14, 2023 Share Posted September 14, 2023 So there are some more details about the near shoot down last year of an RAF RC135. Turns out the Russian fighter didn't launch just the one missile, and both seemed to malfunction... https://www.gloucestershirelive.co.uk/news/uk-world-news/russian-fighters-fired-two-missiles-8750562 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stuart Galbraith Posted September 14, 2023 Share Posted September 14, 2023 Â Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stefan Kotsch Posted September 14, 2023 Share Posted September 14, 2023 3 hours ago, seahawk said: And as I said: Which war? No war has been officially declared according to Russia. To be a real war, it doesn't have to have a declaration of war.  Russia also felt threatened by NATO-Ukraine, even though it is not a member and has no foreign troops stationed. 😊 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ink Posted September 14, 2023 Share Posted September 14, 2023 7 minutes ago, Stefan Kotsch said: To be a real war, it doesn't have to have a declaration of war.  Russia also felt threatened by NATO-Ukraine, even though it is not a member and has no foreign troops stationed. 😊 Yeah, totally agree. Nobody even does declarations of war anymore. They've been passé since WWII. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stuart Galbraith Posted September 14, 2023 Share Posted September 14, 2023 Its quite interesting to read the transcript of the Kennedy tapes, and how Excom got itself tied up in knots about whether to declare a war or not before bombing the Russians in Cuba.Presumably it was Vietnam that push he world beyond such legal niceties. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yama Posted September 14, 2023 Share Posted September 14, 2023 1 hour ago, urbanoid said: Twatter is twatting about S-400 complex destroyed with Neptunes/UAVs in Crimea. Saw a mention on Russian TG channel that S-300 launcher was hit in Crimea after the drone strike. Also videos of smoke and explosion from the supposed region. Sounds plausible (although unsure why they would think it was Neptunes, more likely SS or Harpoon). Russians have used similar tactics in Kiev. Crimean AD units probably are relatively more complacent than in frontline regions. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stuart Galbraith Posted September 14, 2023 Share Posted September 14, 2023 There were allegations they hit an air defence site, before employing the stormshadows against Sevastapol. I wonder if this indicates a generate effort towards taking out military targets in Crimea from this point on. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Josh Posted September 14, 2023 Share Posted September 14, 2023 5 hours ago, RETAC21 said: No, why? and who would enforce it? Turkey currently bans warships coming and going. They might be ok with a civilian ship with a warship cargo. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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