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19 minutes ago, sunday said:

That digression began way, way before, and the second post of the digression was an answer by crazyinsane105.

Okay, my bad then.

19 minutes ago, sunday said:

On the editing of posts, please check the dates, it could be possible that one post was being edited while other person was composing an answer.

I’m not accusing you of changing your answer an hour later or something. Just merely pointing out that I felt compelled to respond now because it slipped by me earlier.

19 minutes ago, sunday said:

On the thread jacking to recriminate posters for their supposed "Putinism"  I will not elaborate. Thread derailing is very common in these fora, and it has been historically considered not a bad thing.

If you are confused about that term you could always just look it up in the search engine, and you said it yourself that you’d rather see Putin remain in power as a distraction to the woke for as long as the latter exist. Maybe I was too harsh and misjudged you, and if so I apologize, but having gazed at your posts for over a month now, you do come across that way.

Edited by Laser Shark
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https://uk.news.yahoo.com/torture-room-discovered-putin-killing-212230619.html

Ukrainian law enforcement officers have discovered a torture room in Bucha, just outside Kyiv, according to Ukraine’s Prosecutor General’s Office.

Russian forces have tortured and killed civilians inside the torture room, the office claimed.

“Soldiers of the Russian Federation armed forces tortured unarmed civilians and then killed them,” the Prosecutor General’s Office said in a Facebook post about the alleged torture room.

 

The Prosecutor General's Office shared photos it says depict several Ukrainians that were killed in the room. The Daily Beast has not independently verified the photos, although Reuters provided photos of the men allegedly killed in the room.

The discovery is the latest in a series of horrific disclosures about alleged Russian atrocities in Ukraine since the war began in February. Just this weekend Ukrainian authorities and journalists uncovered mass graves with Ukrainians shot dead, allegedly by Russian forces, in Bucha. Images of dead naked women, some of them burned, have also emerged from Bucha in the last several days. Ukrainians have also had their hands bound behind their backs, and been shot dead in the streets, images taken in the city show.

And although Russia has denied the allegations that it has been behind the string of disturbing killings, suggesting that they happened after Russia began to withdraw from the region, satellite imagery shared with The Daily Beast and first reported by The New York Times reveals Russia is lying through its teeth. Many of the dead bodies in question were on the streets of Bucha approximately 20 days before Russia withdrew.

Satellite imagery from private company Maxar Technologies shared with The Daily Beast Sunday appears to show a 45-foot-long trench dug in Bucha as well—the excavation of which began March 10, well in advance of Russian troops’ withdrawal, Maxar said.

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This has been on multiple sites, not just the Express.

https://www.express.co.uk/news/world/1590974/Vladimir-Putin-troops-execute-Ukrainian-mayor-civilian-deaths-war-crimes-Ukraine

A UKRAINIAN mayor and her family were kidnapped, killed and buried in a forest pit by Russian troops, reports claim.

Olga Sukhenko, the mayor of the Ukrainian town of Motyzhyn, 30 miles west of Kyiv, was allegedly shot alongside her husband and son for refusing to comply with Russian demands, the Associated Press reported. A local resident told the news outlet that Russian troops targeted local officials in the town and murdered those who did not collaborate with them. 

The whereabouts of Ms Sukhenko, her husband Igor and her son Alexander had been unknown since they were reportedly kidnapped on March 23.

Their bodies were discovered in a shallow pit on Saturday along with one other person, who is yet to be identified.

The Motyzhyn resident, who was identified only as Oleg for security purposes, said that the family were executed then thrown into the pit behind a plot of land where three houses occupied by Russian forces were situated.

Another victim was allegedly shot by Russian troops in the village and dumped down a well.

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NATO instructors on the territory of a military base in Estonia trained Ukrainian nationalists back in 2006.

At that time, Ukrainian nationalist youth took a course of sabotage and terrorist training under the guidance of NATO instructors on the territory of a military base in Estonia in the summer of 2006.

Fotos 3-4 - A NATO officer conducted classes on installation techniques, a mini lecture on first aid for combat wounds.

The training course included radio-controlled directional mines, as well as training in the manufacture of improvised explosive devices

https://t.me/Varjag2007/39532

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22 minutes ago, Roman Alymov said:

NATO instructors on the territory of a military base in Estonia trained Ukrainian nationalists back in 2006.

One can only hope that some of these skills were put to good use in ambushes that eventually lead to Russian retreat from north before they could "denazify" all the villages like they did in Bucha.

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Bucha, and more incidents like this that will be discovered later, are the result of telling the soldiers that Ukraine is run by Nazis. It provides moral cover. If they are Nazis, then everything is allowed. It's not even bestial behavior; animals wouldn't be that cruel.

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'Take back control!' And 51 percent of Brits vote for Brexit.

'The Election is stolen!'. A thousand gullible people storm Capitol Hill.

'Ukraine is run by Nazi's!' 200000 Russian soldiers rape and murder their way across Ukraine.

We assume we understand it, but I still dont think we have yet fully taken on board the power of propaganda in the information age. Its power is barely tapped, and its effects are already truly terrifying.

Heck, we see it every day on this grate site, where fairly mild mannered, likeable people, turn into raving psycopaths who cheer Vladimir Putin. You can do anything with the right conditioning.

Edited by Stuart Galbraith
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9 minutes ago, Ssnake said:

Bucha, and more incidents like this that will be discovered later, are the result of telling the soldiers that Ukraine is run by Nazis. It provides moral cover. If they are Nazis, then everything is allowed. It's not even bestial behavior; animals wouldn't be that cruel.

Nice to know the perps of the Bucha massacre are known at last. Care to provide a relevant link?

On Ukrainian war crimes, like that Mariupol school with the tortured body of a woman, or the multiple  separated cases of shooting of POWs, some even filmed in video, and the possible threat of Russophobia, nothing.

Here is another case: https://odysee.com/@Velyaminov:a/Ukrainian-military-beat-a-Russian-military-officer-for-2-days,-he-died,-the-soldier-says.:6?r=HdXXqA6C9tsPdDRGDaKdBTU95ffwfGL7

Edited by sunday
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1 minute ago, Ssnake said:

Bucha, and more incidents like this that will be discovered later, are the result of telling the soldiers that Ukraine is run by Nazis. It provides moral cover. If they are Nazis, then everything is allowed. It's not even bestial behavior; animals wouldn't be that cruel.

See above, Bucha is result of trigger-happy Volkssturm and National Guard "clean up operation" following Russian forces withdrawl. And this withdrawl got nothing to do with ambushes - but with stalemate caused by unwillingness of Russian command to erase residential suburbs of Russia's third largest city (smaller than StPete, but bigger than Novosibirsk) to make further moves - while bypass is impossible because of swampy forrested terrain).

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Ministry of Defense of the Russian Federation: According to confirmed information, on the evening of April 4, in the locality of Moshun, 23 kilometers northwest of Kiev, 72 servicemen of the Ukrainian main center for psychological operations conducted another staged shooting of civilians allegedly killed by the violent actions of the Russian armed forces for subsequent distribution through Western media. Similar events are now organized by the Ukrainian special services in Sumy, Konotop and other cities.

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2 minutes ago, Roman Alymov said:

See above, Bucha is result of trigger-happy Volkssturm and National Guard "clean up operation" following Russian forces withdrawl. And this withdrawl got nothing to do with ambushes - but with stalemate caused by unwillingness of Russian command to erase residential suburbs of Russia's third largest city (smaller than StPete, but bigger than Novosibirsk) to make further moves - while bypass is impossible because of swampy forrested terrain).

I is not a Russian city, it is a capitol of free sovereign Ukraine. Would you stop with this propaganda til at least your excuse of an army takes it?

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3 hours ago, Roman Alymov said:

No idea, the only way to know it for sure is to capture and interrogathe them.

P.S. Longer version of execution video (18+), one of pro-Ukrainians say "Georgians" (so probably some of this guys are Georgian "volunteers" - at least bearded guy looks like ethnic Georgian)

https://t.me/MediaKiller2021/2740

Edited by Roman Alymov
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Moldovan president refutes reports about redeployment of Russian troops in Transnistria

Maia Sandu also mentioned that Moldovan representatives "warned the Russian military about the illegality of the placement of the symbols "Z" and "V", which are used by Russian troops in Ukraine.

 

CHISINAU, April 4. /TASS/. The Moldovan authorities do not register an increase in the number of Russian servicemen in Transnistria, Moldovan President Maia Sandu told journalists on Monday.

Earlier, the Ukrainian General Staff disseminated information that the deployment of military units in Transnistria was allegedly recorded to prepare an offensive. The Transnistrian authorities debunked this information.

"News appeared in the media about some military movements on the territory of Transnistria. The number of Russian peacekeepers in the Transnistrian region has not increased - they all cross the border of Moldova, so reports that there are more of them do not correspond to reality. We cannot know everything, but according to the reports we obtained, information from our partners, we do not see things in Transnistria that would indicate an alteration in the security situation," Sandu noted.

She also mentioned that Moldovan representatives "warned the Russian military about the illegality of the placement of the symbols "Z" and "V", which are used by Russian troops in Ukraine. Sandu underscored that the republic, whose constitution stipulates neutrality, does not intend to interfere in the events in the neighboring country and will not join the sanctions against Russia.

https://tass.com/world/1432127

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35 minutes ago, Stuart Galbraith said:

Heck, we see it every day on this grate site, where fairly mild mannered, likeable people, turn into raving psycopaths who cheer Vladimir Putin. You can do anything with the right conditioning.

Stuart, you're never gonna win anyone over by calling them raving psychopaths. Remember Daryl Davis who managed to de-radicalize some 200 KKK members by simply engaging in civil conversations with them.

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"Raving psychopaths" here, "every day"? That could be, but "Mild mannered, likeable people"??

That is unacceptable! Who are they and how dare they to behave so?!?

Edited by sunday
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7 minutes ago, Laser Shark said:

Stuart, you're never gonna win anyone over by calling them raving psychopaths. Remember Daryl Davis who managed to de-radicalize some 200 KKK members by simply engaging in civil conversations with them.

Laser Shark, I really dont think im going to win anyone over at all. Ive spent 8 years pointing out the evils of the Putin regime. I wont bore anyone with how I was treated over that time for expressing that honest opinion, but you know, its cool, people are entitled to be wrong. They didnt have to agree, or even see my perspective.

But here we are, right in the middle of a bloody war where there isnt really much doubt left over the regime, and yes, I get some people have issues with the nature of the evidence, I dont agree, but I respect their opinion. But that there is, even now, still some people whom think Putin, and people like Putin, are the solution to our problems? That he is some kind of radical anti socialist or anti woke weapon?  I dont even think they are necessarily deranged, I think they fell so far down the rabbit hole they no longer know the way out. So fuck them basically. Yes, one of them might be doing it as a comedy act. Its not funny anymore. I didnt make jokes about the Yugoslavian genocide, Im not really finding the Ukrainian one any funnier.

I wont change any minds, I havent changed any minds, Ive spent 8 years trying to stop this site being bent all out of shape, and for what? Really, if people still think there is something left to debate after seeing whole families slaughered, 3 year old children raped, women raped and dumped and burned by the side of the road, and still try and project there is some kind of equality between both sides, I really have very little left to say.

 

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Just now, Stuart Galbraith said:

So fuck them basically. Yes, one of them might be doing it as a comedy act. Its not funny anymore. I didnt make jokes about the Yugoslavian genocide, Im not really finding the Ukrainian one any funnier.

That.

Those pro-Putinist, genocidal talking points are being repeated here non-stop, and this cannot go unchallenged. It is not about convincing anybody, it is about showing that we don't agree.

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