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Kiev Is Burning


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40 minutes ago, sunday said:

If this is Western Civilization...

4ab470d8ec42e81c.jpeg

Fortunately, this Bentley (insert whatever should be inserted) is not a Catholic Priest, or the milking would be something to see.

Of course, ukr flag in (insert possessive pronoun) twatter, and (insert pronoun) is a proud jabbed one.

Actually so over the top that the profile could be satire, but looks more real than a typical release by the UK MoD, or the Ukr govt.

 

Embracing Putinism because you hate the woke cancer, is as reprehensible and stupid as embracing the Nazis because you hate Communism. There are other alternatives - much better alternatives - than those that are laid out here.

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2 minutes ago, Huba said:

Horrible. Also, how stupid would one have to be to record something like this  AND include his face in the recording ?

Plenty of stupid nasty people to be found in the wars. Especially when they see that almost whole "free world" ignores their  side nastiness.

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14 minutes ago, Laser Shark said:

Embracing Putinism because you hate the woke cancer, is as reprehensible and stupid as embracing the Nazis because you hate Communism. There are other alternatives - much better alternatives - than those that are laid out here.

Sorry, but I do not embrace Putinism.

First, I do know what on Earth is that.

Second, the woke plague is closer and is more powerful than Putin, so the more the later distracts the former, the better. Once the plague is defeated, it will be time to reassess the situation.

Third, I think the best outcome for all of us, Ukrainians and Russians included, is a short war, whoever wins is secondary. The Ukrainians will change a corrupt puppet for another, and that is all. Ukraine does not look like having chances to win, so helping Ukraine could be seen as a cruel thing, prolonging suffering.

Fourth, Ukraine could win if NATO enters the war. Unfortunately the chances of that leading to thermonuclear exchange are practically 100%, and one billion people would die.

So, what is now the reprehensible and stupid position?

Also, Franco used the Nazis against the Communists, and he was no Nazi whatsoever, but a Catholic Conservative. Eisenhower, and Nixon, at least, understood that.

Edited by sunday
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16 minutes ago, Laser Shark said:

There are other alternatives - much better alternatives - than those that are laid out here.

Oh really? What alternatives are there? I hope you do not mean "Breitvik-ism"

Edited by sunday
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10 minutes ago, sunday said:

Sorry, but I do not embrace Putinism.

First, I do know what on Earth is that.

How can you be sure you do not embrace it if you do not know what it is?

10 minutes ago, sunday said:

Second, the woke plague is closer and is more powerful than Putin, so the more the later distracts the former, the better. Once the plague is defeated, it will be the time to reassess the situation.

They do not distract each other, and Putin will do nothing about it because their existance are deteriorating and weakening his western opponents.

10 minutes ago, sunday said:

Third, I think the best outcome for all of us, Ukrainians and Russians included, is a short war, whoever wins is secondary. The Ukrainians will change a corrupt puppet for another, and that is all. Ukraine does not look like having chances to win, so helping Ukraine could be seen as a cruel thing, prolonging suffering.

Your arguments remind me very much about those that collaborator types were making during WW2. "The resitance is just making things worse. Look what they're forcing the Nazis to do against you!"

10 minutes ago, sunday said:

Fourth, Ukraine could win if NATO enters the war. Unfortunately the chances of that leading to thermonuclear exchange are practically 100%, and one billion people would die.

Nothing is practically 100% except death and taxes.

10 minutes ago, sunday said:

So, what is now the reprehensible and stupid position?

Also, Franco used the Nazis against the Communists, and he was no Nazi whatsoever, but a Catholic Conservative. Eisenhower, and Nixon, at least, understood that.

Franco wasn't a Nazi, but he was still a fascist scumbag.

Edited by Laser Shark
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20 minutes ago, Laser Shark said:

How can be sure you do not embrace it if you do not know what it is?

haha. Next.

They do not distract each other, and Putin will do nothing about it because their existance are deteriorating his western opponents.

Disagree. He is doing something inside Russia, and has mentioned this problem in several speeches.

Your arguments remind me very much about those that collaborator types were making during WW2. "The resitance is just making things worse. Look what they're forcing the Nazis to do against you!"

In order for a war to be considered as just, there should be a reasonable chance of winning it.

Do you see a reasonable chance for Ukraine to win this war, yes or not?

Nothing is practically 100% except death and taxes.

99.999% then, there was an article written by someone that spent a good part of his life doing wargames at the Pentagon simulating this case. In 100% of the cases, thermonuclear war was the outcome.

Franco wasn't a Nazi, but he was still a fascist scumbag.

You do not know shit about the best statesman Spain has produced since, at least, Charles III during the 18th century, sorry.

Anyway, that was only an illustrative example. The fact that you did not wanted to comment on the thesis says something.

 

Edited by sunday
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7 minutes ago, Laser Shark said:

🙄

No really, oh you Norse sage, what real alternatives are there? I thought you were going to share your enlightened views of modern politics, since you had found not one, but several alternatives that were not falling prey to the woke plague, nor to that Putinism - are you sure that term is not an invention of yours?

Or were you only writing to alleviate the tedium, Stuart-style.

Edited by sunday
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43 minutes ago, Junior FO said:

If this starts spreading with tit for tat retaliation this will get very ugly very fast.

Retaliation for imaginary wrongs is an especially despicable result of the kind of misinformation the Ukr government is so fond of.

I do not think I've seen videos of Russians torturing Ukrainians, for instance. Or they are extremely discreet, or they are under quite strict orders.

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Still confused as to the relevance of an article about a UK bill on Internet censorship to any of the subjects under discussion here, but it does serve to show how deranged people can get over simple questions.

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1 minute ago, DB said:

Still confused as to the relevance of an article about a UK bill on Internet censorship to any of the subjects under discussion here, but it does serve to show how deranged people can get over simple questions.

Yep, there is some need of rangefinders here. I prefer coincidence ones, but laser ones could do.

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31 minutes ago, sunday said:

Disagree. He is doing something inside Russia, and has mentioned this problem in several speeches.

Yes, in Russia where it's a problem for him. Not in the west where it benefits him.

31 minutes ago, sunday said:

In order for a war to be considered as just, there should be a reasonable chance of winning it. Do you see a reasonable chance for Ukraine to win this war, yes or not?

That's a very weird definition of what constitutes a just war, but as for whether I think the Ukrainians have a chance or not, it depends on a lot of factors like what would be an acceptable outcome for them, and how the war will progress from this point onwards. I will admit, however, that I simply do not know enough about this to give you a yes or no answer, but I think it's worth supporting them as long as they're willing to fight for their homeland.

31 minutes ago, sunday said:

99.999% then, there was an article written by someone that spent a good part of his life doing wargames at the Pentagon simulating this case. In 100% of the cases, thermonuclear war was the outcome.

I do not know who this man is, but unless he is god, he doesn't know if there's 100% or 99.9% chance that this is going to be the outcome of a western intervention.

31 minutes ago, sunday said:

You do not know shit about the best statesman Spain has produced since, at least, Charles III during the 18th century, sorry.

If he is your "best statesmen" than Spain must be some kind of nightmare realm. It didn't seem that bad the last time I was there though.

Edited by Laser Shark
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I am sorry, but you are having too much fun pretending to have a honest discussion when you clearly are not doing that.

Let's go to the point: How much do you hate Russians, Laser Shark?

By the way, on the Catholic doctrine of just war:

Quote

2309 The strict conditions for legitimate defense by military force require rigorous consideration. the gravity of such a decision makes it subject to rigorous conditions of moral legitimacy. At one and the same time:

- the damage inflicted by the aggressor on the nation or community of nations must be lasting, grave, and certain;

- all other means of putting an end to it must have been shown to be impractical or ineffective;

- there must be serious prospects of success;

- the use of arms must not produce evils and disorders graver than the evil to be eliminated. the power of modem means of destruction weighs very heavily in evaluating this condition.

These are the traditional elements enumerated in what is called the "just war" doctrine.
The evaluation of these conditions for moral legitimacy belongs to the prudential judgment of those who have responsibility for the common good.

source

Edited by sunday
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30 minutes ago, sunday said:

No really, oh you Norse sage, what real alternatives are there?

Or were you only writing to alleviate the tedium, Stuart-style.

You could always take take a stand for true liberal democracy, human rights, freedom of speech, freedom of religion, right of assembly, meritocracy etc.. no need to back authoritarian assholes because the other authoritarian assholes are less to your flavor.

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11 minutes ago, sunday said:

By the way, on the Catholic doctrine of just war:

Ukrainians are Orthodox dude. It is not the Pope sending the help, it is the secular states of the West. And how can you openly support the Frankos' fascist regime? Have you no shame? I think you already put me on the ignore list but I have to respond in kind. 

My grandfather, and many people of his generation, used to say that you don't discuss with fascist (also on the internet). You shoot them.

Edited by Huba
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Just now, Laser Shark said:

You could always take take a stand for true liberal democracy, human rights, freedom of speech, freedom of religion, right of assembly, meritocracy etc.. no need to back authoritarian assholes because the other authoritarian assholes are less to your flavor.

True liberal democracy - ask Trump about the 2020 election

Human rights - Abortion goes against right to life, the first and most important human right

Freedom of speech - Have you heard of cancel culture, and that Nobel Prize that was hounded until he resigned from an emeritus professorship? Of Facebook and Twitter...

Freedom of religion - Not very defended in Irak by the Western countries, Iraki Christians are on the way out, and American Christians are also hounded, there was that Christian bakery and those upstanding citizens... finally the bakery was ruined.

Right of assembly - Heard of confinement because of Covid? What happened in Ottawa, or in Australia?

Meritocracy - Where? It could work in Scandinavia, but on countries with affirmative action it really ceased to exist quite long time ago.

Then, well, which political party embraces all these theoretical goodies? I could only thought of Orban's in Hungary, one untested Spanish one, those Polish ones that some NPCs around here calls Fascist...

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2 hours ago, sunday said:

If this is Western Civilization...

 

Fortunately, this Bentley (insert whatever should be inserted) is not a Catholic Priest, or the milking would be something to see.

Of course, ukr flag in (insert possessive pronoun) twatter, and (insert pronoun) is a proud jabbed one.

Actually so over the top that the profile could be satire, but looks more real than a typical release by the UK MoD, or the Ukr govt.

 

Did you even like check that guys account, he's a troll (note his book doens't even exist)

Edited by Inhapi
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