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Kiev Is Burning


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If you really thought there are "russian civilians" being killed by "nazis", then why didnt you ask for investigation of such things??? half of OSCE staff was Russian...  you gave no proofs of your claims, and attacked sovereign nation with pretext which Adolf Hitler used back in his days...  (he also claimed Czechs are killing people in Suddetenland...)

Edited by jaro
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3 minutes ago, jaro said:

 Do you even hear yoursef? Do you really think Zelenskyi would want to attack Russia, when he knew that their border defenses are not there because money were stolen??  

Have i said anything about Zelensky? He is definitely not the man in control of Ukrainian Army. And also, if you return to my earlier posts, you will find out that pro-Ukrainians wanted to act on preconditions of Russia folding under Western pressure and failing to act in support of Donbass. That is why they felt absolutely safe to left border with Russia unprotected and concentrate around Donbass in preparations for attack.

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1 minute ago, Roman Alymov said:

Have i said anything about Zelensky? He is definitely not the man in control of Ukrainian Army. And also, if you return to my earlier posts, you will find out that pro-Ukrainians wanted to act on preconditions of Russia folding under Western pressure and failing to act in support of Donbass. That is why they felt absolutely safe to left border with Russia unprotected and concentrate around Donbass in preparations for attack.

Zelenskyi is president.. and as such he is the supreme commander of Ukrainian army... as every president is for any other country..

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40 minutes ago, Yama said:

No...not really. There is actually lot of regret that some of those countries were admitted to EU (and particularly Euro) way too quickly. Also, it gave unlimited access to Romanian and Baltic criminal gangs to all over Europe.

Not a lot of people are eager for Ukraine to join, despite the smiles and moral support.

There is, now In 1991 when their economies were in the shitter, there was great enthusiasm.

Ive no doubt Ukrainians will fall out of love with the EU, when they figure out its a bureaucracy out of control. But until that time comes, it will plug their economy and people into the European economy, and allow them to repair the damage of war. To reskill, to have access to a huge market. Basically, help them reform.

Then later they can be a complete pain in the ass to the EU, and frankly Ill give them a big hand for that too.  Somebody needs to make it reform, and they strike me as the people to make it happen. Its not like the EU can ignore them, after the blood they have shed to get in. These are the most enthusiastic Europeans alive, and they will have to be listened to.

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43 minutes ago, jaro said:

 Stalin was a mobster, not a military commander... of course he failed, because he followed own goals and left Tuchachevsky unsupported...

He was still present as a military Commisar. They had a certain amount of latent power, even if it was only encouraging commanders to make certain decisions. And agreed, he didnt get on with Tuchachevsky, which is probably the main reason for his eventual execution.

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3 minutes ago, Stuart Galbraith said:

There is, now In 1991 when their economies were in the shitter, there was great enthusiasm.

Ive no doubt Ukrainians will fall out of love with the EU, when they figure out its a bureaucracy out of control. But until that time comes, it will plug their economy and people into the European economy, and allow them to repair the damage of war. To reskill, to have access to a huge market. Basically, help them reform.

Then later they can be a complete pain in the ass to the EU, and frankly Ill give them a big hand for that too.  Somebody needs to make it reform, and they strike me as the people to make it happen. Its not like the EU can ignore them, after the blood they have shed to get in. These are the most enthusiastic Europeans alive, and they will have to be listened to.

comparation is simple... look at average income in Slovakia and Ukraine or Russia... in Slovakia, its around 1000eur average.. in Russia it was 400 eur? and Ukraine around 200 eur.. so, if you had a choice, where would you rather go? Russia or EU?? and mind you, Slovakia is not that rich.. look at Czechs or Poles.. but we are all post Washaw Pact countries which got into EU..

Edited by jaro
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2 minutes ago, jaro said:

some more disabled russian tanks:

 

 

and these guys have some fun (unrelated to first one)

 

 

There is a story I heard, possibly apocrypal, is that Ukrainians villagers were disturbed by a tank doing endless laps of their village. When a farmer went to go and ask what the hell they were doing, they told them they were trying to run the tank out of fuel.....

You have to wonder if not a few of these tanks that are bogged, or driven off bridges, are just and elaborate effort to get out of the war.

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1 minute ago, Stuart Galbraith said:

There is a story I heard, possibly apocrypal, is that Ukrainians villagers were disturbed by a tank doing endless laps of their village. When a farmer went to go and ask what the hell they were doing, they told them they were trying to run the tank out of fuel.....

You have to wonder if not a few of these tanks that are bogged, or driven off bridges, are just and elaborate effort to get out of the war.

 yeah, i heard it as well, but didnt want to put it here :D

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Just now, jaro said:

comparation is simple... look at average income in Slovakia and Ukraine or Russia... in Slovakia, its around 1000eur average.. in Russia it was 400 eur? and Ukraine around 200 eur.. so, if you had a choice, where would you rather go? Russia or EU?? and mind you, Slovakia is not that rich.. look at Czechs or Poles.. but we are all post Washaw Pact countries which got into EU..

Im sure, but its all relative isnt it. But when you see what was once regarded as the absolute dog economy of Europe, Albania, actually doing economically quite well, with new building, development and tourists (I gather their amazing crop of bunkers are quite popular) then its clear to see that, at least as far as economic development, the EU has been an unparalled good for Europe. Ive great issues with it, but I wish we were still in it.

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Ukraine in the EU? The dream of many oligarchs - Plenty of money for bending bureaucrats, plenty of EU development funds to embezzle, no border control, they could flee from the home judiciary by staying in Brussels...

Yeah, I could see Zelensky oligarch puppet masters trying to leverage the opportunity.

Edited by sunday
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My first post here: as a Pole I think Ukraine should not be member o EU. Ii is country corrupted even more the Russia is. 
They had 30 years to built modern, liberal and law-abidng country. We started from the same level, but the result is very very different. Even before this war started there was over 1 milion Ukrainian economical migrants in Poland (and we are not very rich country).
Will Ukraine win this war? No. Putiin will take Donbass and will make the Ukraine a Russia-dependent state.
NLAWs and Javelins will not help to take loss teritories back. The only way to stop Russians is to send regular army to help UAF. But this will end with nuclear winter.
Shoul we help Ukraine to fight by sending weapon? Yes. The more russian blood soaks into the ukrainian ground the better fo us, the probability that Putin will start something crazy (like coridor to Kaliningrad) will be lesser.

And: If Russians will kill all Azow's nazi scums I will no cry.  At all.



 

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2 minutes ago, Cynik75 said:

My first post here: as a Pole I think Ukraine should not be member o EU. Ii is country corrupted even more the Russia is. 
They had 30 years to built modern, liberal and law-abidng country. We started from the same level, but the result is very very different. Even before this war started there was over 1 milion Ukrainian economical migrants in Poland (and we are not very rich country).
Will Ukraine win this war? No. Putiin will take Donbass and will make the Ukraine a Russia-dependent state.
NLAWs and Javelins will not help to take loss teritories back. The only way to stop Russians is to send regular army to help UAF. But this will end with nuclear winter.
Shoul we help Ukraine to fight by sending weapon? Yes. The more russian blood soaks into the ukrainian ground the better fo us, the probability that Putin will start something crazy (like coridor to Kaliningrad) will be lesser.

And: If Russians will kill all Azow's nazi scums I will no cry.  At all.



 

If they were so determined on wiping Azow.. they would have focused on Mariupol.. they are all there from what i heard.. instead, they are bombing Kharkov, and other cities..

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2 minutes ago, Cynik75 said:

My first post here: as a Pole I think Ukraine should not be member o EU. Ii is country corrupted even more the Russia is. 
They had 30 years to built modern, liberal and law-abidng country. We started from the same level, but the result is very very different. Even before this war started there was over 1 milion Ukrainian economical migrants in Poland (and we are not very rich country).
Will Ukraine win this war? No. Putiin will take Donbass and will make the Ukraine a Russia-dependent state.
NLAWs and Javelins will not help to take loss teritories back. The only way to stop Russians is to send regular army to help UAF. But this will end with nuclear winter.
Shoul we help Ukraine to fight by sending weapon? Yes. The more russian blood soaks into the ukrainian ground the better fo us, the probability that Putin will start something crazy (like coridor to Kaliningrad) will be lesser.

And: If Russians will kill all Azow's nazi scums I will no cry.  At all.

That is a lot of common sense in one post.

Welcome!

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Welcome to Tanknet Cynik75.

I obviously dont agree with all that, but I do completely agree that Poland, or possibly the Baltic states, are next on the list after Ukraine. That seems all but inevitable to me.

I was discussing this earlier, its kinda like early 1920 again, when Polish forces helped support Ukraine, because after Ukraine, they knew they were next.

Edited by Stuart Galbraith
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Just now, jaro said:

If they were so determined on wiping Azow.. they would have focused on Mariupol.. they are all there from what i heard.. instead, they are bombing Kharkov, and other cities..

Well yes. They rocketed the general assembly building in Kharkiv. That doesnt strike me as someone deeply worried about killing a lot of Russian speakers.

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1 hour ago, Stuart Galbraith said:

7mXHwZlv-i-fought-the-nlaw-and-the-nlaw-

Stupid memes and handful of light weapons =/= actual support Stuart.

Did not want to degrade discussion, but since it is again on the level of memes and twatter shit, I will post this.

This is Ukrainian channel (from Nikolaev) with historical reenactment, mostly concentrated on what soldiers ate (it is great BTW if you understand Russian). Review of British MRE is basically "Let's see what kind of food enabled British to run so fast from Afghanistan and now Ukraine". Title is "MRE of the British instructors in Ukraine! Why did they evacuate so fast?":

Oh and a review of MRE is also quite interesting, he notes that even old pre 2014. Ukrainian and Russian MREs are basically way better for an average soldier.

Edited by bojan
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1 hour ago, Stuart Galbraith said:

Im sure the Ukrainian Army really wanted for the past 8 years to attack and take its stolen territory back. But ultimately, they didnt. By Romans narrative they only chose after 8 years, with no appreciably newer equipment, to attack, but only after the Russians had predeployed to annex Ukraine. This makes absolutely no sense on any political, military or common sense levels. In fact it makes even less sense than the Russian invasion plan, to occupy a country the size of Ukraine with nowhere near enough troops to do it.

Whom is the nation making the allegation that this is the case? The same nation that claim that claimed they had absolutely no plan to invade Ukraine under any circumstances. So clearly a reputable source then.  :D

 

 

To me, there is no sense concentrating my army somewhere where I don't except attack other then my own.

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Just now, Perun said:

To me, there is no sense concentrating my army somewhere where I don't except attack other then my own.

There is, if they were ONLY expecting to have to fight for the bit of Donbass and Luhansk that the Ukrainian Government held on to.

Thats intuitive I think, that Putin would only go in to make these finished states that could stand on their own feet. After all, few on this site thought they were even going to go in, so second guessing the Ukrainians on a misdeployment (and understandable misdeployment) is a bit out of order.

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16 minutes ago, Cynik75 said:

....And: If Russians will kill all Azow's nazi scums I will no cry.  At all.

If Chechens and Azov meet at some field, I hope they all fight to the last man.

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Just now, bojan said:

Stupid memes and handful of light weapons =/= actual support Stuart.

Did not want to degrade discussion, but since it is again on the level of memes and twatter shit, I will post this.

This is Ukrainian channel (from Nikolaev) with historical reenactment, mostly concentrated on what soldiers ate. Review of British MRE is basically "Let's see what kind of food enabled British to run so fast from Afghanistan and now Ukraine". Title is "MRE of the British instructors in Ukraine! Why did they evacuate so fast?":

 

So Simon makes stupid comments and you bite your tounge, I reply in like and you blow your top. Tony posts a video that was posted the day before, you say nothing, I do it a few minutes later, you go nuclear.

  But you will never, ever change will you Bojan?  :D

 

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Just now, Stuart Galbraith said:

At last, I can wholeheartedly agree with you on something. You will probably disagree about that too. :)

 

yeah, fully support that, and you can add some Wagner nazis also..

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