Kiev Is Burning

[seahawk]

5 minutes ago, Stuart Galbraith said:

Nope. Been reading a lot about how the Soviets were going to win WW3. I think they would have done it. The best Russia can get here is a repeat of the winter war. Big losses, damaged army, lots of heads rolling, and thats not counting the amount of damage its doing to the Russian economy.

Looking at the Russian Army last week, and comparing it with the NATO Army, I was feeling trepidation. Now I ask, what kind of threat is it that suffers basic logistics problems in the first 2 days of the advance, within sight of their own border?

Even the Americans got halfway to Baghdad in 2003 before the logistics became a problem. And you know what? They didnt abandon good kit by the side of the road where anyone can hook his tractor up and drive off with it.

No, It doesnt mean they wont win. But if they do, its going to be a long, bloody conflict, and hardly the statement of Russian military prowess they wanted to set. And Kiev may fall, but so what? These buggers will just keep on killing Russians as a hobby, just as they kept on killing Germans in 1941.

You have quite regularly pointed out that Putin is a mad man and now we are seeing this in the Russian media. Russia has dealt with internal opposition after the revolution and after WW2, those in power today have no problem using the same methods again. Fact is, it seems like the current leadership is very much still stuck in 1989.

[jaro]

1 minute ago, bojan said:

It was a joke. After all, Italians are actually descendants of barbarians that have brought down the Rome.

Thats good one   but in reality, they did not brought down the Rome... those "barbarians" were actually leading "Roman Imperial Armies" at that time, and just become fed up with their Emperor in Rome and took power... Fall of Western Empire was not really a fall... it was impossible to keep sustaining it.. it had to split into many smaller parts that could govern itself easier.. (you know.. back in the day, they did not have internet or telephones... everything took time..)

[bojan]

4 hours ago, On the way said:

...Whatever flaws were discovered in Turkish operations were supposedly long ago addressed by the succeeding upgrades up to A7 +....

No Leo 2 version, even newest ones have fully separated ammo storage. And that is a key of the "problem" (that most countries building tanks don't consider problem for some reason).

[jaro]

1 minute ago, bojan said:

No Leo 2 version, even newest ones have fully separated ammo storage. And that is a key of the "problem" (that most countries building tanks don't consider problem for some reason).

didnt they add blow out panels to the bottom of the hull with A7V? 

[sunday]

7 minutes ago, jaro said:

any "inconvenience" makes logistics harder and harder...

Yes, but when sabotaging railways in, let's say, WWII, usually they went for derailing trains or blow locomotives up.

So not "harder and harder", but "slightly harder"

[jaro]

Just now, sunday said:

Yes, but when sabotaging railways in, let's say, WWII, usually they went for derailing trains or blow locomotives up.

So not "harder and harder", but "slightly harder"

 if you try to supply army in the field, and you have a few hour delay until the train can move again.. it has a domino effect down the line...

[Stuart Galbraith]

Just now, seahawk said:

You have quite regularly pointed out that Putin is a mad man and now we are seeing this in the Russian media. Russia has dealt with internal opposition after the revolution and after WW2, those in power today have no problem using the same methods again. Fact is, it seems like the current leadership is very much still stuck in 1989.

Yes, and Checescu was highly successful at putting down dissent. And so was Saddam. And so was the Emperor Comodus. And so was the KGB. And then one day, they werent, because times change.

You know, before all this started, I warned, beware of confirmation bias. Today is the same as yesterday, and tomorrow is the same as the day before. We are living in flux now. And anyone that thinks Putin doesnt have a growing internal dissent problem, is not looking at the same videos of protest that I am. A young 18 year old woman was arrested the other day. Her crime? Hanging a blanket out the window with 'No War' written on it.

You make everyone a criminal, you make everyone an enemy. Just like every tyrant, sooner or later he is going to push his luck too far.

[sunday]

1 minute ago, jaro said:

 if you try to supply army in the field, and you have a few hour delay until the train can move again.. it has a domino effect down the line...

Any General Staff worth its salt knows how to deal with friction.

[jaro]

I guess its one of those two we saw being shot at, based on camo, it doesnt look its Ukrainian Mi-24.. more like Mi-35

 

 

[sunday]

6 minutes ago, jaro said:

Thats good one   but in reality, they did not brought down the Rome... those "barbarians" were actually leading "Roman Imperial Armies" at that time, and just become fed up with their Emperor in Rome and took power... Fall of Western Empire was not really a fall... it was impossible to keep sustaining it.. it had to split into many smaller parts that could govern itself easier.. (you know.. back in the day, they did not have internet or telephones... everything took time..)

So, did the Mongols invent the telephone?

[jaro]

Just now, sunday said:

So, did the Mongols invent the telephone?

Mongols did not care about maintaining their empire that much.. they had tribal organization, didn't require "central government".. in some way, it was more effective way how to control land, but on other way, they did not control as many people and populated settlements as Roman Empire did in its prime..

[Stuart Galbraith]

Just now, jaro said:

I guess its one of those two we saw being shot at, based on camo, it doesnt look its Ukrainian Mi-24.. more like Mi-35

 

 

Yes, based on the colour, the sensor turret and the 23mm guns on it, its an Mi35M.

https://images.fineartamerica.com/images-medium-large-5/2-mil-mi-35m-attack-helicopters-artyom-anikeev.jpg

[sunday]

9 minutes ago, jaro said:

Mongols did not care about maintaining their empire that much.. they had tribal organization, didn't require "central government".. in some way, it was more effective way how to control land, but on other way, they did not control as many people and populated settlements as Roman Empire did in its prime..

Seems you feel you ought to have right to your own facts but, well, sorry to disappoint you...

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_largest_empires

Edited February 28, 2022 by sunday

[jaro]

4 minutes ago, sunday said:

Seems you feel you ought to have right to your own facts, but well...

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_largest_empires

I'm not really an "expert on Mongol empire"... but the whole point why Roman Empire split, was because they couldn't sustain cost of centralized government... and the guy who deposed last Western Roman Emperor, was leading his armies... it was a coop, not a "migration" as commonly presented.. these Germanic tribes were assimilated quite quickly into Roman society.. they adopted even their military structure, their weapon (Germanic Angon javelin is practically Roman Pilum) etc...

Edited February 28, 2022 by jaro

[sunday]

1 minute ago, jaro said:

I'm not really an "expert on Mongol empire"... but the whole point why Roman Empire split, was because they couldn't sustain cost of centralized government...

You are not any sort of expert on History, that is clear.

[bojan]

17 minutes ago, jaro said:

didnt they add blow out panels to the bottom of the hull with A7V? 

Which part of "no fully separated ammo" you don't understand?

[jaro]

1 minute ago, sunday said:

You are not any sort of expert on History, that is clear.

as you say so.

[seahawk]

5 minutes ago, bojan said:

Which part of "no fully separated ammo" you don't understand?

Apart from that, the location of the hull storage means, that there are only very few scenarios in which the storage could be penetrated with the armour between the storage and the interior not being compromised. And the one must remember that the M1 also had hull ammo storage - just fewer rounds and it is no longer used.

Edited February 28, 2022 by seahawk

[bojan]

2 minutes ago, seahawk said:

...And the one must remember that the M1 also had hull ammo storage - just fewer rounds and it is no longer used.

M1 hull ammo storage has blow out panels and physical separation from the crew, unlike one in the Leo 2.

[sunday]

8 minutes ago, jaro said:

as you say so.

Thanks!

[sunday]

5 minutes ago, bojan said:

M1 hull ammo storage has blow out panels and physical separation from the crew, unlike one in the Leo 2.

Those blow out panels on the hull are kind of interesting

https://www.quora.com/Why-does-the-M1-Abrams-have-2-composite-side-skirts-on-the-left-but-4-on-the-right

[Stuart Galbraith]

 

[Stuart Galbraith]

Bugger me, Amazon prime has upped it's game.

 

[bojan]

As for this on... look carefully at the color of uniform and color of armband:

 

[seahawk]

11 minutes ago, bojan said:

M1 hull ammo storage has blow out panels and physical separation from the crew, unlike one in the Leo 2.

The big difference in the design is that it has all ammo in the rear of the crew compartment. Only due to this does it make sense to have the separated storage.