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Pictures of separatist gunmen from yesterday in Odessa. Note police ignoring the guns.

 

There is plenty of pneumatic/traumatic/gas firing “weapons” on hands both in Russia and Ukraine (do not know what is situation elsewhere) - and all this stuff is visually undistinguishable from real guns. So it is not surprising police do not react on gun in hands, especially when they got much worthier trouble unfolding.

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Pictures of separatist gunmen from yesterday in Odessa. Note police ignoring the guns.

 

There is plenty of pneumatic/traumatic/gas firing “weapons” on hands both in Russia and Ukraine (do not know what is situation elsewhere) - and all this stuff is visually undistinguishable from real guns. So it is not surprising police do not react on gun in hands, especially when they got much worthier trouble unfolding.

 

I always thought it was the other way round, that police overreact when someone shows up with a toy gun because no one can say for sure just how much of a threat it is.

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I always thought it was the other way round, that police overreact when someone shows up with a toy gun because no one can say for sure just how much of a threat it is.

 

Not during de-facto civil war... And in this events opposing (pro-Ukrainian) side were football fans, so not surprising police pay more attention on them, as their traditional rivals.

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Seems like the lines were drawn in Odessa yesterday.

 

Probably best to let them all go at it until one side "wins". Some places will stay with Ukraine, others won't.

 

If you keep the military and foreign elements out, it'll probably work itself out with the least amount of deaths.

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Yes, reports say that 15 are Russian citizens, plus additional 5 are citizens of Transdnitria republic - though, it should be noted, that this is still highly unconfirmed. And it's apparently 31 dead, not 38.

What were those people doing there ? Tourism ?

 

Information already denied by Odessa police: “No information yet on identity or citizenship of those dead – bodies still to be identified”, “No weapons found in the building”

http://www.unn.com.ua/uk/news/1337991-v-militsiyi-nazivayut-domislami-informatsiyu-pro-nibito-zagiblikh-v-odesi-rosiyan-i-pridnistrovtsiv

 

Video - pro-Ukrainian activists inside burn out building counting bodies and trying to find Russian documents (without success, as it seems). Disturbing. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vv9_z6Cdf3g#t=11

 

Not according to Deputy Minister of Interior of Ukraine - "This [preparation by the extremists] is confirmed by majority of identified persons, who are citizens of Russia and Transdnistriya."

 

http://obozrevatel.com/crime/96328-posobniki-terroristov-sami-podozhgli-dom-profsoyuzov-brosaya-koktejli-molotova-mvd.htm

Edited by Gregory
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I haven't followed the developments from the beginning thinking it will just go away. It hasn't, of course.

 

So I wonder if anyone can be kind enough to make a very short summary of what's happened? Who's fighting who, why, and who's winning? Thanks in advance.

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So as for my report in Kiev since I'm here right now...

 

Obviously people in this region are extremely supportive of the Ukrainian military and they pretty much hate Putin. However, a number of locals I have spoken too made it clear that they see no difference in the new government versus the old one that has taken power. In terms of corruption its more or less the same in their eyes. They all agree though that Ukraine's future isn't looking too bright and the number of people, especially young folks, who are looking to leave the country to other parts of Europe or even the US is quite high.

 

I'm leaving on Monday. I'd love to come back to Kiev as its definitely a place to visit and meet gorgeous women, but I dunno if that will be possible in the near future.

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In the short viewing I saw of the fat dude with the AKSU, it didn't appear to be real. When he was firing, no one around him was flinching from the noise, and there was no loud gunshots heard.

 

Not that it matters, of course, as thrown rocks and molotovs + clubs are enough. Interesting that no one has bothered with archery equipment, as that's readily available worldwide and more lethal than what they were using.

 

See (people are flinching from the fireworks, but not the AKSU, which would be louder):

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Wl1oqASAmK0

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Step-by-step analysys of odessa events - unknown gunmen (pretending to be pro-Russian) acting in close cooperation with police (and briefed by police chief in advance) to anger pro-Ukrainian crowd and then fleeing the scene after it under police cover, while pro-Ukrainian crowd directed to building occupied by pro-Russian activists, few blocks away

http://ontimer.livejournal.com/27218.html

 

Another reports with lots of photos http://napaki.livejournal.com/100072.html

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And not a squeak out of Obama, Kerry, or Cameron.

 

But then, that's hardly a surprise.

They've hardly shown any neutrality or honesty in this horrible situation so far.

 

It seems some life counts, and other life is worthless...

 

Anybody seen Tanknets self declared "russophile"?

Or is he still preparing for the Russian invasion?

Or perhaps lying low until the "other" side does something before commenting?

Edited by wilhelm
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"It's not Russia that's pushed Ukraine to the brink of war" - http://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2014/apr/30/russia-ukraine-war-kiev-conflict

Seumas Milne has no credibility outside a small circle of extreme left-wingers. If the Russian army was marching up Whitehall, he'd be arguing that it was a reasonable response to Western provocations. He thinks the main thing wrong with modern Russia is that it's no longer the USSR, & he'd love the USSR to be re-created.

 

He hates the society which he lives in (& lives very well indeed: his background is very privileged, & his career has flourished due to it), & loves those who want to destroy it. He's the sort of establishment idiot who'd help any kind of revolution succeed, & not understand what was happening when he was shot or thrown in a labour camp by the revolutionaries. He's pro-Chavez, pro-Ahmadinejad He's a loony - but unfortunately, not alone in his madness.

Edited by swerve
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"It's not Russia that's pushed Ukraine to the brink of war" - http://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2014/apr/30/russia-ukraine-war-kiev-conflict

Seumas Milne has no credibility outside a small circle of extreme left-wingers. If the Russian army was marching up Whitehall, he'd be arguing that it was a reasonable response to Western provocations. He thinks the main thing wrong with modern Russia is that it's no longer the USSR, & he'd love the USSR to be re-created.

 

 

In fairness, so would a lot of right wingers too ;)

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Most left-wingers actually seem to hate Putinist Russia: it's close to as much removed from Communism as one could possibly imagine.

 

The left in most countries is made up of liberals and social democrats, of whom next to none have any use for communism either. But, it's hard to remember that on TkNet.

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He hates the society which he lives in (& lives very well indeed: his background is very privileged, & his career has flourished due to it), & loves those who want to destroy it.

Russian liberals and "anti-Putin opposition leaders" fits well into this description - but Western media are often happy to quote them (and governments waste money in supporting them). Well, it is democracy.

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Step-by-step analysys of odessa events - unknown gunmen (pretending to be pro-Russian) acting in close cooperation with police (and briefed by police chief in advance) to anger pro-Ukrainian crowd and then fleeing the scene after it under police cover, while pro-Ukrainian crowd directed to building occupied by pro-Russian activists, few blocks away

http://ontimer.livejournal.com/27218.html

 

Another reports with lots of photos http://napaki.livejournal.com/100072.html

 

Roman got one thing right - it's fairly clear the Russian gunmen and thugs coordinated closely with Odessa police. The red arm bands on both police and rioters were a dead giveway. The Interior Minister has announced that Odessa security services have completely failed in their responsibilities, and the leadership in both police and security apparatus will be sacked completely. That's in addition to the ongoing investigation into actual collusion with pro-Russian rioters, which will likely end in criminal charges.

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National Guard is training crews for BTR-4s. First 40 units received.

Are these part of the same batch that was supposed to be delivered to Iraq? The Iraqis turned them down after realizing how terrible the quality of these vehicles were.

 

 

I think the issue was that bribes were paid to previous set of people in Iraq MoD, and new appointees were demanding them to be paid all over again.

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