Kiev Is Burning

[swerve]

 

Skoda Car really doesn't suffer by being owned by Volkswagen.

 

No, of course it doesn't. But Volkswagen (and therefore their German shareholders and, therefore, the German economy) has benefited enormously from being able to acquire Skoda for a pittance, employ low-wage (at the time) Czech workers, cut Czech red-tape by way of EU reforms... etc. This same model for success has been replicated again and again with EU expansion and not just through buying up formerly state-owned enterprises but also through lucrative infrastructure projects financed by EU loans (which do have to be paid back, you know), etc. One of the reasons Turkey isn't in the EU is that the US was flooding it with cheap finance and so it could tell the EU to f*** off.

 

Volkswagen bought Skoda cheap, but then spent a lot on modernising factories. It could have built new factories for no more. It bought Skoda mostly for the workforce. Skilled & diligent, just like Germans. Even drink beer & eat pork, potatoes, dumplings & cabbage. Just like home.

 

Compare VW buying it with what would have happened if Skoda had remained independent. Would it build as many cars now?

[Yama]

 

 

Ok, on that point we respectfully part company because we are clearly on entirely different pages. I find it hard to criticise Germany for being economically viable because they made the correct decisions 20-30 years ago, whilst the rest of Europe rested on their laurels.

What the Germans have set up is essentially a modernized version of mercantilism, where they out-compete other economies within the Eurozone and maintain a huge trade surplus. It's almost impossible for Finland, for example, to compete with German products - climate, geography and economies of the scale make almost anything produced in Finland uncompetive compared to Germany. Now, what would normally happen is that Finnish currency would eventually devaluate, but since we're in the Euro, that can't happen so we're pretty much screwed.

 

Nonsense! A very large part of the German economy is made up of small & medium sized manufacturing firms, which have no economies of scale. It's one of the strengths of their economy, & our lack of it is one of the reasons our industry has gone downhill. Finland can excel in niches, as the Mittelstand does - & indeed, Finland does so in some niches.

 

German mercantilism is not my own idea, see for example here: http://yanisvaroufakis.eu/2012/04/21/german-mercantilism-and-the-failure-of-the-eurozone-guest-post-by-heiner-flassbeck/

 

Consider, for example, Nokia, that astounding success - until its management screwed it up. Nokia had the economies of scale that German mobile phone makers (e.g. Siemens) never managed to achieve. Its decline in mobile telephony has been a drag on the Finnish economy recently, just as its growth boosted Finland for years, & that decline has been entirely due to making the wrong decisions on what to make & who to co-operate with. Teaming with Microsoft was suicidal, & Nokia's been totally shafted.

Nokia's role in Finnish economy was dominant maybe 15 years ago, but it had lost much of the signifance long before Elop (who screwed things up royally, mind you). Almost all manufacturing and most of the design was outsourced from the country before 'E-flop'. No, what's killing us now is inflation, which is much higher than in central Eurozone. Our industry is no longer competive and losing orders left & right. However, since we're tied to Eurozone, monetary tools to rectify the situation (which saved our necks in the '90s) are very very limited.

 

As for out-competing countries within the Euro zone, I'll tell you a story from 1979. I had a temporary post-school job in the QC lab of a soft drink bottling plant. The bottling line was German made. I asked the head of production why they'd bought German. Were they cheaper than British manufacturers (which existed then, & I knew it)? "No", he said. The German machinery was much more expensive - & no wonder, with German wages, which were much higher then than in the UK. But the German line was far more reliable, & when it did need repair, the Germans would fly in whoever was needed, on weekends, public holidays, whatever, & fix it damn quick. Their British competitors would send someone eventually, but it'd take much longer, not least because their support staff were constantly busy, while the Germans always had someone free who could be sent straight away. The reliability & service meant that production interruptions were very rare, & very short, & that meant that even at twice the price of British machines (& the difference wasn't that much), it would be better value. Losing production cost more than paying more for machines & service.

 

See?

Yea, but it's no longer 1979. Today your manager would be fired for not cutting the costs by ordering the cheapest, the bottling would be outsourced to Myanmar and the execs would cash a nice bonus from subsesquent stock price rise.

[Yama]

Why did Putin's puppets believe it best to beat and torture Yulia Tymoshenko?

Tymoshenko was actually preferred by Putin compared to her rival Yuschenko, who had much clearer anti-Russian stance. Tymoshenko is also not exactly Aung San Suu Kyi - she's an oligarch who made a fortune by means which may or may not stand closer scrutiny.

[DKTanker]

Tymoshenko was actually preferred by Putin compared to her rival Yuschenko, who had much clearer anti-Russian stance. Tymoshenko is also not exactly Aung San Suu Kyi - she's an oligarch who made a fortune by means which may or may not stand closer scrutiny.

Thus justifying beatings and torture. Okay, just checking.

[Corinthian]

Consider, for example, Nokia, that astounding success - until its management screwed it up. Nokia had the economies of scale that German mobile phone makers (e.g. Siemens) never managed to achieve. Its decline in mobile telephony has been a drag on the Finnish economy recently, just as its growth boosted Finland for years, & that decline has been entirely due to making the wrong decisions on what to make & who to co-operate with. Teaming with Microsoft was suicidal, & Nokia's been totally shafted.

 

 

Seems like Nokia was desperate in that maybe Team Android particularly Samsung didn't want to see Nokia be a major competitor in the Android market, while Microsoft in turn was looking for that partner who would accept its own Vision of mobile communications, and so you got two desperate companies....

[Chris Werb]

It's going back a few pages, but I loved this bit!

 

On Tuesday he came to the Rovno regional parliament, where he threatened the regional MPs with a machine-gun and a number of other weapons

 

I now have a mental movie of an Eastern European nutcase threatening the MPs with a whole bunch of weapons duct-taped to a PKM.

[X-Files]

[rmgill]

 

Tymoshenko was actually preferred by Putin compared to her rival Yuschenko, who had much clearer anti-Russian stance. Tymoshenko is also not exactly Aung San Suu Kyi - she's an oligarch who made a fortune by means which may or may not stand closer scrutiny.

Thus justifying beatings and torture. Okay, just checking.

 

 

Yeah, I'm having a hard time understanding why anyone thought this would be a good idea. Talk about shit that'll come back to haunt you in court.

 

 

[Marek Tucan]

No, of course it doesn't. But Volkswagen (and therefore their German shareholders and, therefore, the German economy) has benefited enormously from being able to acquire Skoda for a pittance, employ low-wage (at the time) Czech workers, cut Czech red-tape by way of EU reforms... etc. This same model for success has been replicated again and again with EU expansion and not just through buying up formerly state-owned enterprises but also through lucrative infrastructure projects financed by EU loans (which do have to be paid back, you know), etc. One of the reasons Turkey isn't in the EU is that the US was flooding it with cheap finance and so it could tell the EU to f*** off.

 

Volkswagen bought Skoda cheap, but then spent a lot on modernising factories. It could have built new factories for no more. It bought Skoda mostly for the workforce. Skilled & diligent, just like Germans. Even drink beer & eat pork, potatoes, dumplings & cabbage. Just like home.

 

Compare VW buying it with what would have happened if Skoda had remained independent. Would it build as many cars now?

As swerve write. Of course the German owners benefited - such is the nature of trade. However looking at the balance, Skoda benefited more - the rapid expansion and improvement in design and quality which came with VW meant that Skoda did not have to go through the painful "trying to modernize on the run on its own" phase like oh-so-many companies after the commies (some of which folded precisely because the politicos did beat the "national gold" drum and preferred domestic owners when deciding).

 

So all in all, Czech workforce benefited (more places, better paid - one of Czechoslovakia's and Czech issues was that our wages were and are not that lower, OTOH qualification is pretty good); Czech republic benefited (more taxes)...

 

Then again the crucial part is that we had at least some viable industry interesting for large investors. Plu a lot of niche stuff (in my hometown, famous Poldi Steel crumbled to dust under Czech owners and mostly ceased to exist... But specialised high-quality departments live on).

 

Anyway, back to Ukraine: Seems there are some militia antics on the Crimea - taking over parliament, airport... And Putin making noises about looking into possibility of sending army to provide humanitarian aid to Crimea. Let's see what will be the counter-move - realistically Kiev probably will see that if they try to squash 'em it may turn nasty, so I guess there will have to be some diplomacy...

[crazyinsane105]

Well....one of the girls in Kiev is afraid of a Russian invasion. The girl in Simferopol is more than eager to meet me. I'm in Jordan right now, about to head to Turkey for 10 days. Seriously, why does the world have to head to hell when I'm trying to meet gorgeous girls abroad?

 

I'm still intent on going by the way.

[Marek Tucan]

Well, I know correlation does not mean causality, but please do not include Czech Republic and France in your travel schedule It seems there may be some protests again in turkey as well.

 

Simfernopol, eh? Well, if anything happens, you will have first row seats...

[Yalmuk]

I hope that this opens some eyes in here Finland, and helps people to remember who is our neighbor. When Russians get bored up beating their homos and economy there stays same or goes worse, they need something to distract people so there won't be a revolt... what better way that try to provoke something with Finland? Who knows what kinda lunatic comes to power after Putin dies.

[Marek Tucan]

As long as there is enough post-soviet republics with large Russian minorities, Finland has nothing to fear

[Yalmuk]

As long as there is enough post-soviet republics with large Russian minorities, Finland has nothing to fear

 

But many those countries are members of NATO, if Estonia wouldn't be in NATO Russians would have acted during the "bronze night" riots in 2007.

[Yalmuk]

"Crimean volunteer" (read: Russian soldier) who is taking part of blocking airfield.

Edited February 28, 2014 by Yalmuk

[Yalmuk]

100% confirmed that they are Russians.

[Chris Werb]

I hope that this opens some eyes in here Finland, and helps people to remember who is our neighbor. When Russians get bored up beating their homos and economy there stays same or goes worse, they need something to distract people so there won't be a revolt... what better way that try to provoke something with Finland? Who knows what kinda lunatic comes to power after the current one dies.

 

FIFY!

[Yama]

 

Tymoshenko was actually preferred by Putin compared to her rival Yuschenko, who had much clearer anti-Russian stance. Tymoshenko is also not exactly Aung San Suu Kyi - she's an oligarch who made a fortune by means which may or may not stand closer scrutiny.

Thus justifying beatings and torture. Okay, just checking.

 

Has she been beaten & tortured? I have not heard of such thing, and quick checking found that she was unhappy that she didn't get adequate medical treatment and went into hunger strike, but no mention of being beaten.

Edited February 28, 2014 by Yama

[Yama]

100% confirmed that they are Russians.

They have no magazines in their rifles, not very intimidating...

[ink]

This video purportedly shows Russian military helicopters flying towards Sevastopol airport today:

[Marek Tucan]

Well they need to protect Russian peace-loving interests against fascist imperialist reactionary imperialist hordes descending upon Crimea...

[ink]

 

Compare VW buying it with what would have happened if Skoda had remained independent. Would it build as many cars now?

So all in all, Czech workforce benefited (more places, better paid - one of Czechoslovakia's and Czech issues was that our wages were and are not that lower, OTOH qualification is pretty good); Czech republic benefited (more taxes)...

 

 

 

I think Swerve and yourself missed my point: I was just making the point that the EU benefits from expansion. I'm sure local economies benefit in some way too, although to evaluate how much would require a much broader discussion. I would, however, argue that since the first wave of expansion the benefits have been increasingly in the direction of existing member states.

 

The point was, however, to make the argument that the EU certainly does have an economic interest in the Ukraine being on the path to accession. This economic interest is not, in my opinion, insignificant and should be factored in when thinking about EU involvement in the recent change of government*.

 

* Just to be clear, I am not suggesting some kind of sinister conspiracy at the top of the EU - I am well aware that foreign policy decisions (especially EU foreign policy decisions) don't work like that - merely to say that economic imperatives are a very powerful part of the process and, whether their influence is direct or indirect, should not be ignored.

Edited February 28, 2014 by ink

[ink]

Well they need to protect Russian peace-loving interests against fascist imperialist reactionary imperialist hordes descending upon Crimea...

 

I think they might genuinely be worried that the Ukrainians were planning to use the armed forces to seize the airports or otherwise intervene militarily in the Crimea.

[ink]

That just means they dont want negligent discharge

 

I haven't had that problem since my early teens - they probably just need to practice more

[X-Files]

The Interfax news agency quoted Russian military sources as saying the incident at Belbek airport was intended to stop "fighters" flying in. However, Interfax later quoted a Russian official as saying that no units had approached the airport or blockaded it. NBC News was unable to independently verify either account.

 

http://www.nbcnews.com/storyline/ukraine-crisis/ukraine-accuses-russia-invasion-over-airport-blockade-n40851

 

 

Now, only western journalists or dumbass Progressives would think the Russians meant fast flying things with bombs and missiles by "fighters". They're talking about Mujihadeen of one flavor or another.

 

 

The one on the left looks female (smaller stature, something around the eyes). If so, could be that the Naval Base at Sevestapol is sending out anyone who can hold a rifle to hold posts.

 

Well they need to protect Russian peace-loving interests against fascist imperialist reactionary imperialist hordes descending upon Crimea...

 

Moscow is not going to lose that Naval Base, but this is a simple intimidation exercise until the situation resolves itself.