Southwest German I&i

[Marek Tucan]

Departing for Rankfurt this evening by train, will join the TN detachment tomorrow morning. 0900 at NH Hotel, right?

[M1Buck]

The weekend of the Farnborough airshow? I'm in England this weekend to see the planes and an old friend that I've missed for 20+ years. I won't be back until Tuesday.

[BansheeOne]

Departing for Rankfurt this evening by train, will join the TN detachment tomorrow morning. 0900 at NH Hotel, right?

 

Better a couple minutes early since we will be leaving at 0900 sharp for the visit at Diehl. Where are you, at the Taubengrund Hotel down the corner from us?

[Marek Tucan]

Nope, Airport Hotel Kelsterbach. According to map some 2.something kilometers. Not to worry, I will start with enough headway to be there not on time, but looong before time

 

 

This is also to say that Tuccy has landed and conquered the room.

 

Single bed room. In a relatively cheap hotel. Still feels bigger than my Paris flat And for the record, thanks to anyone in SNCF who came with the special event on 1st class tickets for TGV/ICE. Was really comfortable and much cheaper than 2nd class. And came with dinner... While I got veggie version, dunno why (then again I was sleeping and the food awoke me so the staff may have asked me what do I want and I may have answered something... Had trouble getting enough brincells awake to ask for big coffee afterwards) - still the dinner was good and while small, pretty filling and nice and tasty. And the seat was so much more comfortable than in 2nd class... And for the way back I also have 1st class. Way to spoil myself

[Marek Tucan]

Today was fantastic - from Diehl plant where we were welcomed and accompanied by theCEO through Fort Hackenberg with its functional fort train and gun turret... To the wine-tasting session in a nice Pfalz coutryside, tasting... Well, a lot of different wines Definitely a very good day today, cannot wait for tomorrow!

[Marek Tucan]

So started to go through IandI pictures, but since there is a LOT... But nature pictures first

HERE

 

Park in Kelsterbach

 

Just some flowers

 

Interesting thing - actually noticed it for the first time. Electrical pylon taking the wires underground...

 

View from Ft. Hackenberg towards Germany

 

And view from Irrel bunker... Towards German as well.

 

 

Tomorrow: Trains. During the week: Museums

 

I hereby also again want to thank to the Berlin Cell and to every participant - I hope to see you again in the future!

[Markus Becker]

Home after 3:11 hrs plus 15 minutes delay because someone stated he/she intended to jump in front of a train. Otherwise the trip was uneventful, which was a HUUUGE contrast to the I&I.

 

Praise our 'fearless organizer' for the great job he did.

 

 

PS: If some Czech offers you booze, stay the hell away from it! That stuff is a chemical weapon, particularly if mixed with many beers.

 

 

 

[sunday]

Well, Markus, you did not sing any forbidden historical songs, after all. No harm done.

 

BTW, some info: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cielito_Lindo

 

[Allan W]

Back home safe and sound. A good time was had by all.

 

 

Much thanks to Axel, Dave and Frank for allthe work they put in organizind and driving.

[Marek Tucan]

It was only 60%... And you had one sip only. I blame the last beer which was bad

 

Anyway thanks to yesterday's trip, I got delayed in processing pics from Germany. Hope to get a move-on with them today, bu esp. the Hackenberg an d Sinsheim folders are HUGE. Luckily halfway through Speyer I ran out of battery

[Harold Jones]

Made it home last night, unfortunately my luggage hasn't quite finished the trip. The baggage tracking system shows that it is in Denver but apparently the guy driving the baggage cart from the plane to the conveyor had his GPS set to avoid toll roads or something and after an hour and a half of waiting I finally gave up and asked them to deliver it to the house when it finally turned up.

 

Many thanks to Axel, Dave and Frank for planning this and doing the driving. Leo gets a special shout out for planting the seed that became the winery tour. Markus it was nice to meet you and thanks for finding the 3 euro breakfast solution. I'll post links once I get the photos and movies I took organized. Finally, as I always say if you get a chance to attend an I&I go it is time well spent.

[sunday]

Seems I am one of the earlier ones that arrived at home: 1700 on Sunday!

 

Highpoints of this year I&I:

 

1.- Visit to Diehl: BansheeOne managed for us to get VIP treatment. Awesome!

 

2.- Fort Hackenberg, with the restored, moving machinery (dissapearing turret, narrow gauge tram) and a very nice piece of technical archaeology on vintage electrical equipment. Also views of that rare French 135mm fortification mortar-howitzer.

 

3.- Coblenz, both the castle and the technical museum. Among the interesting things in the museum were some rare pistols, like a Le Francais, a Mars, a Gasser revolver, a miniature Kolibri pistol... Bojan would have loved it! Two Stoner 63 rifles in different configurations, several G11 prototypes, German WWII studies on self-loading rifles, MG42 evolutionary prototypes, automatic guns, one of them sectioned and with parts replaced with transparent, metacrylate ersatzteilen... (Tony Williams would have loved it, even if it is not the MoD Pattern Room). And a working prototype of that VT1/2 two gun contraption, a ginormous Marder 2, a 240mm gun, a 210mm one, a sectioned SA4 missile... Also a treasure trove of WWII to present electronics, like the guidance section of a Fritz-X, a Liechtenstein radar, a Tornado radar, a F-104G NASARR radar, a sectioned Tornado ECM pod, optics of Leopard 1 and Leopard 2, aerial reconnaissance cameras from pre-WW2 to (almost) present day. That museum could be, easily, one of the best in the world for students of weapons engineering.

 

4.- Speyer: the two technical museums are the best ones I've been into. Not many places today where one could visit the interior of a Tu-144, and one of the few automobile museums able to make Jay Leno green with envy. Railway section was pretty good also. Some of us also went to visit the ancient, almost 1,000 years old, Cathedral. That building put to shame that "one thousand years Reich" bit we all know.

 

5.- Spielmann-Schindler winery - The lady in charge was a most gracious host, and show us a good view of the internal working bits, even a quite new grape harvester. I have visited in the past some wineries in my local area, so it seems I was able to talk shop a bit with her, but Simon Tan would have been a better person to talk about fine points of wine characteristics, but I liked the wines she brought to us. They also make a curious Riesling sparkling wine using the Champenoise method. They prepared us a fine dinner to go with the wine tasting.

 

6.- Both Westwall museums -Irrel and Niedersimten- especially the bits of history of their use explained by the knowledgeable guides, kindly translated for us, German-impaired persons, by Axel and Markus. It was kinda hilarious to know the company that build Niedersimten bunker was also hired by the French to destroy the upper, fighting levels, AND also by the Americans to reacondition the lower, storage, levels.

 

7.- Dreikirch: Was nice to got to know a bit of Luxembourg, and that museum is a nifty, little one, but with exhibits carefully chosen to represent the local history. And the departure of the Retirement Home's Angels aboard their Harleys was a curious sight to see.

 

Special mention to Fort Douamont, and the Ossuary. That was a different, more deep and moving experience, about the, I do not know how to express it accurately, but wastefulness and futility of attrition warfare could be a good start. The tunnels and halls of Fort Douamont felt haunted to me.

 

Perhaps the only thing that could have needed some improvement is that we spent a lot of time on the road. That could have been avoided with one hotel change between the visits to West Germany/France/Luxembourg, and to the south-ist parts, but I understand there were some rigidities in the schedule due to external factors.

[BansheeOne]

The Berlin Cell arrived home shortly after 1900 yesterday, after dropping off BansheeFour at his girlfriend's place near Göttingen and Leo at Hannover, where he graciously treated us to lunch at the nice Italian restaurant on his street corner, and gave Dave the back issues of "Soldat und Technik" we forgot last year after the Bovington I&I. I found my flat baking after a week in stifling heat and stayed up until 0200, catching up on TankNet and recorded TV shows, hoping in vain I could cool the place down to bearable temperatures with open windows and my tiny A/C set ...

 

Overall we were lucky with the weather as we had sunshine all week, but escaped most of the heat by frequently dwelling in underground installations and else residing in an airconditioned hotel. Of course it was just a couple dozen meters from the final approach to FFM's northern runway; Harold has video of planes coming in directly over the place on the next street where those not breakfasting at the hotel went in the morning, and will probably post it. Planespotter's paradise though, and the rooms were well soundproofed. The major annoyance was the fire alarm that went off at shortly before 0130 on the third night. The fire brigade showed up, switched off the alarm and retreated, leaving us to go back to bed with ringing ears.

 

 

 

We got to know Autobahn 6 with all the construction sites around Kaiserslautern quite intimately; luckily we were done with that after three days, though we covered nearly 2,400 km during the program. Forward-basing at K-Town would have been much easier on the time budget and rental car bill, but difficult to transfer to for the transatlanticans. Anyway, we made it.

 

Full AAR follows as usual.

 

[BansheeOne]

Day 1: Wehrtechnische Studiensammlung Koblenz

 

For the entrée, we went to the Wehrtechnische Studiensammlung at Koblenz on Tuesday, which was the base stone we built the I&I upon. As Sunday related, this is a very extensive collection used by the Federal Office of Equipment, Information Technology and Service of the Bundeswehr (former Federal Office for Defense Technology and Procurement) for training purposes, but also open to the public. They have a host of German-developed prototypes like the Marder 2, MBT-70, VT-1-2, an early Leopard 2 with autoloading turret, a Marder 1 test rig with top-mounted 105 mm gun (though sans autoloader), and, my personal favorite, the EXF 8x8 wheeled tank destroyer with 120 mm turret. Among other things, there is also an array of mussels and breeches carefully sorted to demonstrate the difference, sport.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

The collection is not restricted to land systems and also has a prototype of the VFW-Fokker VAK 191B VTOL fighter, next to a skeletal jet VTOL test rig and an F-104 modified with extra weights, fins and electronics to explore unstable flight regimes. The most impressive detail of the exhibited Mi-24 to us was the gun pod with one 12.7 and two 7.62 mm quad-barrel rotary MGs firing a combined 12,300 RPM we termed the "Make my day, punk"-pod. Because Russia. Or, as Harold put it, "because fuck you".

 

Other guns range from the 24 cm Kanone 3 to the French 100 mm naval turret, to the Vigilante 37 mm rotary cannon, to the prototype .60 cal. T45 Gatling, to early automatic rifles and pistols, to an early Italian entry into the development of assault rifles, to one of the smallest automatic pistols in the world, made in 1913 with 2.7 mm caliber. Because fuck you.

Edited July 21, 2014 by BansheeOne

[BansheeOne]

Day 1: Deutsches Eck and Ehrenbreitstein Fortress

 

We had allocated three hours to the collection, but eventually spend more than four. Afterwards we had a late lunch at a beergarden at the Deutsche Eck confluence of the Rhine and Mosel, overtowered by a hulking statue of Kaiser Wilhelm I. in the typical style of German late 19th century nationalism. In view of the advanced time, we cancelled both the visit to the Koblenz railway museum and Rhine river cruise we had proposed as optional afternoon activities, and instead jointly took the cablecar to Ehrenbreitstein Fortress on the far bank. Which incidentally offers a specxtacular view of the city and rivers, with the blue water of the Mosel mixing into the more brown one of the Rhine.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

The commanding height of the fortress has always been used for some kind of fortification or other since pre-historic times. It was dismantled in the Napoleonic Wars, but later rebuilt, served as a military base and prison, and as emergency quarters for those homeless after WW II. Today it holds the Rhineland-Palatinate State Museum, the memorial to the dead of the German Army established in 1972, but also dreamy little show gardens and various gastronomic attractions with a view. We returned satisfied and quite early in the evening, unlike in the following days.

Edited July 21, 2014 by BansheeOne

[BansheeOne]

Day 2: Westwall Museum Niedersimten and Verdun

 

Our first destination on Wednesday was the Gerstfeldhöhe work of the Westwall at Niedersimten, in the district of my boss. This was intended to be a supply and staging installation for the forward fighting positions, holding a battalion of soldiers and ammunition in underground storage, to be brought forward by rail via an elevator lifting the trains 68 meters up. It was never finished or used for its intended purpose as priorities changed, though naval ammunition for the Atlantikwall including mines and torpedos were stored there late in the war. The Panther turret outside the truck gate was not an original feature; a Walker Bulldog and Duster from the post-war era were rusting away quietly to one side, an 8.8 cm Flak which blew its barrel in the defense of Frankfurt airport to the other.

 

The civilian population of Niedersimten sought shelter here at the war's end, experiencing some tense moments as US forces moved in. The installation was eventually handed over to the French who demolished the upper level, drowned today with spillover water from the subterranean lake coming down the old elevator shaft. The lower level was later taken over by the Americans again and filled with MREs to the ceiling, cleared out as humanitarian aid for Bosnia in the 1990s. Today, a small collection of military artefacts and vehicles resides in the main tunnel.

 

Our guide Michael related how his family was affected by the evacuation of the "Red Zone" on the French border in 1939, all women and children sent east across the Rhine one afternoon, returning only months later though no French shell ever impacted in the area. He also showed us the Panzer II the museum association is restoring in a back shop not usually open to visitors. We had planned on 90 minutes for the tour, but in the end stayed nearly three. I felt for the hapless tourist couple who had chanced by and joined our group ...

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

The delay reduced our time budget for visiting Verdun in the afternoon, exacerbated by losing contact on the autobahn because we found the GPS on the rental car had been set to avoid toll roads. In effect one element arrived early but hungry, while the other had lunch on the way but was late. Fortunately or unfortunately, depending on viewpoint, the museum of the battlefield memorial was closed for renovation with no peep on their website, so we could spend our time on other sights.

 

The ossuary overlooking the huge cemetery was no longer under scaffolding like three years ago when Dave and I first visited there, and looked impressive. One element also made another visit to Fort Douaumont, where the lady at the admittance counter reacted to our 20-Euro bills with "always the Germans with their large bills"; Markus informed her that we had put all our coins into the French motorway toll machines. The fort was still as damp, dark and depressing as I remembered it, many caverns turned into gravechambers for the casualties of subsequent French and German garrisons. I remain in awe of how artillery fire has churned away the soil on top, making access shafts to the gun and observation cupolas once flush with the surface standing out like chimneys.

 

I finally also got to the famous "Trench of Bayonets", but found that the original rifles supposed to have stuck out after the trench section collapsed on the French soldiers manning it (though BillB states they might have simply been expedient grave markers in his Verdun battlefield guide which Harold had brought along) are no longer there in the US-gifted memorial built around it. Wwe returned to FFM to have dinner at an Italian restaurant near the hotel - though it turned out to be not Italian, but Persian, and the latter only on weekends. So it was Schnitzel for the evening, but we arranged for a Persian menu on Friday.

[BansheeFour]

I do not want to interrupt my brother, but while he is recapping our (glorious) adventures: Everybody who has paid for group expenses (fuel / parking for the rental car or Dave's car, entry fees for the group, etc.) please PM me your expenses, as they go into the famous "Zahlmeister"-Excel sheet (it more or less looks like an Enigma from the inside & outside). This sheet in turn will tell me who gets money back (or has to contribute some more ).

 

And BansheeOne has access to a Dropbox-Folder for photo & video sharing. Contributors & visitors are welcome. There are alread some pictures in it, like a photo of Dave grinning at a Škorpion.

[BansheeOne]

Day 3: Diehl Land Defence Systems and Fort Hackenberg

 

I have no pictures of the visit to Diehl at Freisen since, being unsure about their photo policy, I left my camera in the car. In fact we were allowed to photograph everything except two Fenneks opened up for maintenance, and others have taken pictures they might post. I, too, was surprised by the treatment we got; while their CEO, site manager and deputy head of sales were listed as participants on the agenda they sent me, I didn't expect all of them to give us the full tour and company presentation, then talk shop over finger food. In essence we were handled like a professional business group; I think they enjoyed our enthusiasm, too. Once I'm back at the office, I'll write them a letter of thanks.

 

In time for once, we proceeded to Fort Hackenberg, the earliest work of the Maginot Line. We took the English tour, guided by a lady who turned out to be actually German and talked in original Countryballspeak.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Unfortunately the tour took about 45 minutes longer than advertized, and in combination with roads closed in remote French villages and the usual autobahn construction sites, we were more than 90 minutes late to our evening appointment at the Spielmann-Schindler winery in Bobenheim am Berg. This caused a minor family tragedy as our hostess Mrs. Schindler had promised her kindergarten-aged daughters that they could help serving the food before the winetasting, but had to eventually send them to bed, which resulted in tears.

 

The evening still turned out rather enjoyable as Mrs. Schindler led us around the winery and explained details of the trade. I'm afraid some of the guys took at least as much interest in the machinery as the wine, swarming all over the giant grape picking engine; though we also all kept flinching after she had warned us of the pruning engine's sharp blades, then stood close to them gesticulating wildly in explanation. Anyway, it was interesting even for the car drivers who didn't drink, and much wine was bought at the end of the evening.

Edited July 21, 2014 by BansheeOne

[BansheeOne]

Day 4: Sinsheim

 

Friday it was the twin technical museums at Sinsheim and Speyer. I haven't been there in ages, and a lot has changed. Notably, when you approach on the autobahn, you are greeted by a Concorde and Tu-144, propped up like taking off but still internally acessible like a lot of other historic aircraft on display. Climbing around an ascending, banking plane suspended in the air can cause slight feelings of disorientation though. OTOH, you get to take nice shots of the Concorde's engines or the Tu-144's underside. Comparing them directly, you also find the latter's cabin is notably wider.

 

Note big black bird sitting on Tu-144's pitot tube. I didn't even see that when I took the picture; Banshee Four has a close-up shot of that.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

The museum also has a lot of historic cars, locomotives and general historic machinery jammed into two halls, a bit cluttered and underexplained for my taste. A seizable collection of armored vehicles is outside, too, including rarer types like the French EBR and Swedish PBv 301. Plus Leo got himself chatted up by a chick with a pretty car.

[BansheeOne]

Day 4: Speyer

 

The Speyer museum is very similar to the one at Sinsheim, but has the advantage of an active airfield next door and therefore concentrates more on aircraft, including a Boeing 747 (where you can walk out on the wing and climb down into the cargo hold), An-22 and various helicopters and fighters, including a Yak-27. They also have the atmospheric test variant of the Buran shuttle. Yep.

 

Other areas are trains, including a test car for the Transrapid maglev train, and ships, including an accessible Type 205 submarine and a Seehund and Biber midget sub each indoors, plus former rescue cutter John T. Essberger of the German Society for the Rescue of the Shipwrecked. There is also a nice collection of fire engines.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

As mentioned, one element also visited the cathedral of Speyer, notable for the crypt holding the tombs of Emperor Konrad II. who initiated construction, and his successors Heinrich III., IV. and V., some of their wives, Rudolf of Habsburg and his son Albrecht of Austria, Philipp of Suebia, son of Barbarossa, and Adolf von Nassau. The current building is actually not as old as the founding date of 1061 as it was rebuilt several times, twice after being destroyed by French troops, and last in the late 19th century. The original cloister is gone, only the 16th century Mount of Olives plastic remaining in its former center.

 

Unusually, being only one hour from the hotel, we returned to FFM quite leisurely, having our Persian dinner in the evening, which was slightly chaotic, but entertaining.

[Allan W]

Axel, thank you for all of the wonderful pictures, especially all the ones of the back of my head..

 

Dave, please check your PM for an important message.

[urbanoid]

What's this cutie?

[Allan W]

What's this cutie?

 

 

It's a PBV 301 APC I believe...

[urbanoid]

Looks like you're right. Fits pretty well in our emporium of adorableness thread!

[BansheeOne]

Here's a picture of your face, Allan.

 

Day 5: Irrel Westwall Museum and Luxembourg National Military Museum

 

On Saturday, we first headed to another Westwall museum at the Katzenkopf near Irrel on the Luxembourgian border. This was a "B-Werk", a rear installation supporting forward positions and providing backup in case of a breakthrough, armed with two MG turrets, a flamethrower that nobody dared to use, and an automatic 5 cm mortar. US troops suffered a bloody setback when trying to cross the Sauer River on the border nearby in 1944, but eventually took the work unopposed after circling around to the north. At this point it was manned only by three men who destroyed documents and machinery before melting away.

 

Like at Niedersimten, it was handed over to the French who tried to demolish it with minor success, then excavated in the 70s on the initiative of the local volunteer fire brigade, supported by the Federal Border Guard and US military firefighters from nearby Bitburg Airbase. Our guide related the latter were your typical hulking types which were so enthusiast they broke several shovels during the dig.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Belated as usual, we progressed to the Luxembourg National Military Museum at Diekirch, one car detouring to drop off Marek at Luxembourg City Central Station to catch his train back to Paris. We had late lunch at a very questionable restaurant near the museum, then managed to complete the latter in the 90 minutes remaining until closing time despite its utter wealth in detail. I took no pictures inside since I had covered it extensively three years ago with Ken Estes and the Texas A&M group. As Sunday related, a flock of pension-aged bikers was visiting at the same time, who made a grand exit roaring off on their Harleys.

 

This concluded the program, and participants departed over the course of Sunday morning. It was fun as always, but more stressful due to the long drives and related delays. And someone else can organize future events, because I absolutely, positively won't another time!