All Things Stealth

[Guest Charles]

I would'nt mind getting some of that paint for my car (preferably in red), then blast down the A9 giving Jock McPlod the pinky .

So what speed did your radar/laser register?.

 

I would probably have to re-mortgage the house twice just to get a single tin of the stuff.

 

Charles

[Josh]

I think the material used on the B-2/F-117 is actually different from the material used on F-22, but I think its all clasified so there's little way to know. That said I doubt RAM alone would be effective against a radar gun and certainly not a laser.

[mnm]

 

 

Fricking Iranians playing games again!

[Mr King]

 

 

Edited May 21, 2014 by Mr King

[Chris Werb]

 

I would'nt mind getting some of that paint for my car (preferably in red), then blast down the A9 giving Jock McPlod the pinky .

So what speed did your radar/laser register?.

 

I would probably have to re-mortgage the house twice just to get a single tin of the stuff.

 

Charles

 

 

But could it negotiate Berriedale Brae?

[Guest Charles]

 

 

I would'nt mind getting some of that paint for my car (preferably in red), then blast down the A9 giving Jock McPlod the pinky .

So what speed did your radar/laser register?.

 

I would probably have to re-mortgage the house twice just to get a single tin of the stuff.

 

Charles

 

 

But could it negotiate Berriedale Brae?

 

Depends on the speed I was/have driven there.

Having done it once at stupid speed; and still being here is a testament to modern braking tech and good tyres, not stealth paint .

I now approach Berridale brae with an extreme amount of respect; and enjoy the drive.

 

I believe the Highland council are going to re-engineer that 1 mile section of road; when, your guess is as good as mine.

 

Charles

[Mr King]

[sunday]

Not convinced enought PAK-FA is stealthy beyond the external looks. Potemkin stealth?

[Josh]

Not convinced enought PAK-FA is stealthy beyond the external looks. Potemkin stealth?

 

Its really impossible to know the RCS until you just put the plane in an echo chamber and measure it, but by most accounts the PAKFA isn't expected to be as low RCS as the F-22/F-35. The fun will begin when someone actually flies an example into international airspace, eh?

[Marcello]

Not convinced enought PAK-FA is stealthy beyond the external looks. Potemkin stealth?

 

From what I recall you could see the turbine blades from the intakes. It will be fixed in the production models supposedly but it may be that stealthiness has taken the backseat due to kinematic requirements and budgetary constraints.Perhaps more a counter to 4th generation planes than something that can really duke it out with a F-22. That said since there aren't going to be hordes of the latter it might be useful.

The above is just my 2 cents, planes aren't really my field.

 

[Mr King]

[Mr King]

 

Not convinced enought PAK-FA is stealthy beyond the external looks. Potemkin stealth?

 

From what I recall you could see the turbine blades from the intakes. It will be fixed in the production models supposedly but it may be that stealthiness has taken the backseat due to kinematic requirements and budgetary constraints.Perhaps more a counter to 4th generation planes than something that can really duke it out with a F-22. That said since there aren't going to be hordes of the latter it might be useful.

The above is just my 2 cents, planes aren't really my field.

 

 

Plasma stealth

[Marcello]

 

 

Not convinced enought PAK-FA is stealthy beyond the external looks. Potemkin stealth?

 

From what I recall you could see the turbine blades from the intakes. It will be fixed in the production models supposedly but it may be that stealthiness has taken the backseat due to kinematic requirements and budgetary constraints.Perhaps more a counter to 4th generation planes than something that can really duke it out with a F-22. That said since there aren't going to be hordes of the latter it might be useful.

The above is just my 2 cents, planes aren't really my field.

 

 

Plasma stealth

 

 

From what I recall it could not be made to work for the whole plane, it was supposed to be used for the radome where dispersal would not be an issue.

[CaptLuke]

 

Not convinced enought PAK-FA is stealthy beyond the external looks. Potemkin stealth?

 

From what I recall you could see the turbine blades from the intakes. It will be fixed in the production models supposedly but it may be that stealthiness has taken the backseat due to kinematic requirements and budgetary constraints.Perhaps more a counter to 4th generation planes than something that can really duke it out with a F-22. That said since there aren't going to be hordes of the latter it might be useful.

The above is just my 2 cents, planes aren't really my field.

 

 

 

Janes ran an article on the Sukhoi patents for stealth features of the Pak-FA:

The papers claim that the radar cross-section (RCS) of an Su-27 was in the order of 10-15 m ² , with the intention being to reduce the size of the RCS in the T-50 to an "average figure of 0.1-1 m ² ".

 

 

This would give a best case of about a 150x rcs reduction, which corresponds to roughly a 70% reduction in detection range vs. an SU-27.

 

This is pretty sensible, since, if you look at what the 4th power relationship looks like, you get by far the most

'detection range reduction' bang for the 'cost of stealth' buck out till somewhere in the 100-1000x range and after that you are talking about enormous increases in stealth being required for comparatively small reductions in detection range. For example, to get a an 80% reduction in detection range, you have to reduce rcs by a factor of 625, to get a 90% reduction you have to reduce rcs by a factor of 10,000

 

An additional factor is that once you've reduced your radar acquisition range to less than the enemy's IRST range, all additional stealth is wasted for target acquisition purposes and, if they are firing IR guided missiles, almost completely wasted in an air-air engagement.

 

Going for a 100x to 1000x signature reduction and then working like hell on your IRST and the other 'classic' air to air factors looks like a pretty smart strategy to me, which is potentially what the Russians are doing here.

[Mr King]

 

 

 

Not convinced enought PAK-FA is stealthy beyond the external looks. Potemkin stealth?

 

From what I recall you could see the turbine blades from the intakes. It will be fixed in the production models supposedly but it may be that stealthiness has taken the backseat due to kinematic requirements and budgetary constraints.Perhaps more a counter to 4th generation planes than something that can really duke it out with a F-22. That said since there aren't going to be hordes of the latter it might be useful.

The above is just my 2 cents, planes aren't really my field.

 

 

Plasma stealth

 

 

From what I recall it could not be made to work for the whole plane, it was supposed to be used for the radome where dispersal would not be an issue.

 

 

Sorry, I was being facetious. It just strikes me that ever since the appearance of the PAK FA, you never hear a peep about plasma stealth out of internet fanboys anymore. Where as before it seemed almost every forum was rife with "zomg plasma stealth".

[Getz]

Perhaps, but the science behind plasma stealth is perfectly sound. Using it to hide an entire plane was always going to be problematic (to say the least) but people thought the same about RAM before it was done.

 

For all that, I'm glad to see the back of all the "zomg plasma stealth" stuff. Sadly it has been replaced with "PAK FA is just pretending to be stealthy!" instead which isn't really any more helpful. I suspect that CaptLuke is pretty close to the truth of what the Russians are up to...

[sunday]

Well, if that plasma thingie could be used to shield all those airframe joints, then that thing could be stealthy enough.

[Corinthian]

Exactly what is the status of the PAK-FA? I am of the impression that it's still in prototype stage with a tiny few (a couple or so) flying airframes and is nowhere near to actual production. IOW, a boogeyman.

[Josh]

From most angles it doesn't look like that fan blades could be completely surpressed; the ducts look pretty straight. But I've seen cutaways that indicate an S-curve in the intake. Is this a questions of planned finished form versus current prototype?I don't see how the airstream could be diverted sufficiently in the current flying examples.

[Marcello]

From most angles it doesn't look like that fan blades could be completely surpressed; the ducts look pretty straight. But I've seen cutaways that indicate an S-curve in the intake. Is this a questions of planned finished form versus current prototype?I don't see how the airstream could be diverted sufficiently in the current flying examples.

 

OTOH the S cutaways were fake, the ducts are straight as they appear, they are working on some sort of grid to install in the intakes to cut down radar returns.

[Mr King]

 

Edited May 31, 2014 by Mr King

[Guest Charles]

 

From most angles it doesn't look like that fan blades could be completely surpressed; the ducts look pretty straight. But I've seen cutaways that indicate an S-curve in the intake. Is this a questions of planned finished form versus current prototype?I don't see how the airstream could be diverted sufficiently in the current flying examples.

 

OTOH the S cutaways were fake, the ducts are straight as they appear, they are working on some sort of grid to install in the intakes to cut down radar returns.

 

The F117 used a similar technique I believe; do we know (OPSEC) what the F-22 and F-35 use?.

 

Charles

[R011]

Can someone explain why they can have red stripes surrounding the RAF roundel and blue decorations on the tails, but the roundels themselves have to be gray on gray?

[Archie Pellagio]

They're subdued blue and red, not grey.

 

But yeah, point stands, who knows?

[R011]

They're subdued blue and red, not grey.

 

But yeah, point stands, who knows?

 

I'll take your word for it, but it's a very subtle shading because all the photos I've seen make it look grey on grey. It's not at all like the other subdued roundels in RAF use.