Mr King Posted January 4, 2014 Author Posted January 4, 2014 Lockheed 6th generation fighter proposal
tankerwanabe Posted January 4, 2014 Posted January 4, 2014 There's a rumor of a new Boeing-Lockheed competition gearing up for a new strike/bomber platform to enter service in 2015 or so. Any one have any news of this?
Archie Pellagio Posted January 4, 2014 Posted January 4, 2014 2015? There are already flying aircraft that won't be in service by 2015, I can't see them having a complete powerpoint presentation by then...
baboon6 Posted January 5, 2014 Posted January 5, 2014 Probably 2025 and I just misread it.That's still probably a bit ambitious.
Archie Pellagio Posted January 6, 2014 Posted January 6, 2014 Unless it is based on the F22 or F35 platform with a few modifications, I can't see it happening, even 2025. Some sort of 'strike eagle' style F22 variant as a sneaky back door to reopen F22 production, while unlikely, wouldn't totally surprise me, but is that even possible now?How much of the production equipment is still around?
Ivanhoe Posted January 6, 2014 Posted January 6, 2014 Try 3015. If you could find some way of building Merlin engines and landing gear faceted, it would probably work quite well even now. I think you'd be better off with a thick layer of RAM inside the pods. Cooling intakes will be tricky, but some sort of long treated inlet & tunnel housing radiators could be workable. Keep in mind too that a modern Merlin can be made smaller and more powerful, given EFI, turbocharging, higher compression, tighter tolerances, variable valve timing, etc.
tankerwanabe Posted January 6, 2014 Posted January 6, 2014 Unless it is based on the F22 or F35 platform with a few modifications, I can't see it happening, even 2025. Some sort of 'strike eagle' style F22 variant as a sneaky back door to reopen F22 production, while unlikely, wouldn't totally surprise me, but is that even possible now?How much of the production equipment is still around? I'm guessing that both Boeing and Lockheed will offer a long-range model based on their former platform (F22/23). But with added modern bells and whistles. I'm guessing that they were already designed roughly the same time as the F22/23 as heavier alternatives, shown to the Brass but not officially offered into competition.
CaptLuke Posted January 7, 2014 Posted January 7, 2014 Unless it is based on the F22 or F35 platform with a few modifications, I can't see it happening, even 2025. Some sort of 'strike eagle' style F22 variant as a sneaky back door to reopen F22 production, while unlikely, wouldn't totally surprise me, but is that even possible now?How much of the production equipment is still around? I'm guessing that both Boeing and Lockheed will offer a long-range model based on their former platform (F22/23). But with added modern bells and whistles. I'm guessing that they were already designed roughly the same time as the F22/23 as heavier alternatives, shown to the Brass but not officially offered into competition. I don't think so: my understanding is that the USAF stepped away from these concepts, which would really be a sort of modern B-58 class plane, in favor of a true B-1/B-2 replacement heavy bomber. There are a couple options to hit 2025. F-22/23 based is certainly one, though given the time gone by and difficultly of reactivating even an unmodified F-22 line, I'm not sure it would be that good a play even if they were in the market for a new medium bomber. A better option might be F-35 avionics/systems re-packaged in a new, larger, sub-sonic airframe, perhaps based heavily off of the RQ-180. From Bill Sweetman's RQ-180 reveal article: " Northrop Grumman engineers publicly claimed (before the launch of the classified program) that the cranked-kite is scalable and adaptable, in contrast to the B-2’s shape, which has an unbroken leading edge." Personal opinion though: none of those options are even in play. We'll get an all singing, all dancing, gold plated super bomber with diamonds on the soles of its shoes. The USAF will simply lie about the new bomber price and timeline because that's how they get planes built. Remember the F-35 with a 2010 IOC? If you do, why even bother to consider the 2025 date?
Corinthian Posted January 7, 2014 Posted January 7, 2014 Lockheed 6th generation fighter proposal Still manned? How quaint...
Corinthian Posted January 7, 2014 Posted January 7, 2014 Does anyone know if this is someones wet dream or was it a serious proposal? Looks like a Sparky design.
Guest Charles Posted January 7, 2014 Posted January 7, 2014 Lockheed 6th generation fighter proposal Still manned? How quaint... The issue that I see with drone style craft, is that you are required to rule not only the airspace, but also the EM spectrum as well. Either can be lost very easily, especially with today's net-centric military. Short of cloning a raptors brain; and wiring it into the 6-7th gen F/A-XX humans are it IMHO. Charles
Archie Pellagio Posted January 7, 2014 Posted January 7, 2014 Don't forget, they aren't drones, they are autonomous artificial intelligence units. They are only reliant on network coms for passing on datalink information to other units and mission tasking, just like manned aircraft.
Guest Charles Posted January 7, 2014 Posted January 7, 2014 Don't forget, they aren't drones, they are autonomous artificial intelligence units.They are only reliant on network coms for passing on datalink information to other units and mission tasking, just like manned aircraft.Interesting, which would be easier; design an AI unit (what is defined by AI is another thread entirely) or cloning a brain to do the same job. Having control of the EM environment/spectrum would be critical; short of developing consciousness transfer ala Avatar. I still believe that having a pilot in the cockpit is the only way to go for the next 2 - 3 decades. Charles
Archie Pellagio Posted January 7, 2014 Posted January 7, 2014 certainly for A2A for the foreseeable future the only application for drones would be as a platform for launching a bunch of AAMs like AIM120s, kind of like the old missileer concept but unmanned. Could either have its own search and track radar or use datalink from another aircraft/ship/GCI. It's going to be a long time before drones can operate WVR A2A.
Guest Charles Posted January 7, 2014 Posted January 7, 2014 certainly for A2A for the foreseeable future the only application for drones would be as a platform for launching a bunch of AAMs like AIM120s, kind of like the old missileer concept but unmanned. Could either have its own search and track radar or use datalink from another aircraft/ship/GCI. It's going to be a long time before drones can operate WVR A2A.A stealth drone (Taranus, X-47) penetrates Nasty people's air-space, giving your gen4.5 F/A the coordinates required to deal with their gen4.5 with BVR AAM. Possibly one of the few techniques that can be used against current 5th gen A/C. Charles.
Josh Posted January 7, 2014 Posted January 7, 2014 I think once two sides have operational gen 5 a/c things are going to get a lot more up close and personal, barring a revolution in sensors. I suspect eventually the DAS on the F-35 will be much more an advance in A2A than it is now against 4/4.5 gen a/c and that the newer blocks of two way datalink AIM-9X could become the primary weapon. I know low RCS isn't the end all be all of survival and that some VLO arrangements are only effective in specific bandwidths, but at the same time those bandwidths often are fire control and air born radar types needed for weapon delivery, and low RCS means frequency agile jammers are that much more effective. I imagine that a VLO type would make a decoy all the more attractive to a radar guided missile. I don't see UAVs excelling in that environment. I'm quite honestly wary of them having any A2A roll at this juncture; I don't see what that buys you. Can't you just have the F-18s or F-35's with external stores carry more AIM-120 behind the F-35s using only internal stores? I've see F-18E's with ten missiles and F-35 could certain carry that using external stores. I think any UAV for CV use should focus on strike and ISR role, maybe SEAD. If they are going with a big honking F-14 sized craft, use it as a tanker as well. All it would have to manage is fly level and spool a hose.
tankerwanabe Posted January 8, 2014 Posted January 8, 2014 I think that once the two sides get stealth parity, air superiority will be gained by dropping a bomb on the other guys' aircraft bunker.
tankerwanabe Posted January 8, 2014 Posted January 8, 2014 Pretty bird. BTW, is it possible to put an airborne laser in this bird? I know that the USAF killed its program several years ago, but the USN is putting theirs in production and the laser itself looks pretty compact.
Josh Posted January 9, 2014 Posted January 9, 2014 (edited) What is the hole behind the lift fan for? An air intake? EDIT: Nice shot of Diego. Hadn't heard there were F-22s hanging out there. Edited January 9, 2014 by Josh
Ivanhoe Posted January 10, 2014 Posted January 10, 2014 EDIT: Nice shot of Diego. Hadn't heard there were F-22s hanging out there. Over the last week, I've seen a few Raptors sprouting the dual external tanks flying out of LAFB. Haven't heard any scuttlebutt as to what's going on, but if they are in the Indian Ocean maybe they are sinking their beaks into the WOT in east Africa. With the budget forecasts bandied about, the services are in the 5th phase of the OODA Loop; Search For Relevance.
RETAC21 Posted January 10, 2014 Posted January 10, 2014 There's a new concept out there regarding basing that involves small packs of F-22s and a single C-17, maybe they are trying it out?
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