All Things Stealth

[Mr King]

The Iranian F-22 killer

 

[Corinthian]

And they gave it a number in the three hundreds so it's more than ten times effective than the F-22.

[Sikkiyn]

Hope the ejection seat works.

[Ivanhoe]

They may have stealth, but they obviously don't have Windex.

[Mr King]

[R011]

And not just the aircraft themselves. The paint job also has a bit of an early war USN vibe to it.

[Guest Charles]

What I do not see, is any form of IR deflection. Other than flares, how is the PAK-FA supposed to deal with IR AAM in the merg?.

The only answer that I can come up with is that the current Engines are not what is going to be fitted to the production run a/c.

 

Still, as already pointed out, stunning looking fighter.

 

Charles

[Corinthian]

Paintjob on that PAK-FA is functional, too. My eyes were a bit fooled by the smaller, darker paint, making it look "smaller." What more in a combat situation with planes flying at subsonic or supersonic.... Reminds me of the false canopy on Canadian F-18s.

Edited December 1, 2013 by TomasCTT

[Josh]

What I do not see, is any form of IR deflection. Other than flares, how is the PAK-FA supposed to deal with IR AAM in the merg?.

The only answer that I can come up with is that the current Engines are not what is going to be fitted to the production run a/c.

 

Still, as already pointed out, stunning looking fighter.

 

Charles

What IRCM does any other a/c carry? There are some active jammers, but you tend to only see this in low and slow designs like helicopters. Far as I know fast movers just use flares or other ejected decoys.

[Josh]

I had an F-35 question that didn't seem worth opening a new thread for. I've read in a couple of older sources that the F-35 will use a 360 degree ESM system along the lines of F-22, with greater coverage using a half dozen receivers on the aircraft control surfaces. However the only active emitter for jamming is the radar itself, leaving most of the angles the F-35 is not pointed at uncovered. No towed jammer seems to be fitted either despite the success of designs like the ALE-50 and -55. The only countermeasures fitted seem to be the radar in a jamming mode and ejected stores. Is this still the case?

[ScottBrim]

I dont think they have moved, simply because the place is so remote after they revoked access to 'Freedom Ridge'. Thats the real reason the Groom Lake interceptors died out, there was no place you could watch groom lake from anymore.

 

So they could keep running projects in there forever an day and nobody would know anything about it. One interesting detail came up some years ago, apparently some walkers near the site claimed that their GPS device no longer worked. So unless there was an unexpected GPS sad times around the facility, the possiblity is they were experimenting with GPS jamming (if that is indeed at all possible) or turned off access to the constellation within sight of the facility to experiment with weaponry working in revisionary mode after GPS no longer works. Possibly an advanced TLAM, maybe even the drone you show above.

 

Not sure it tells us anything, but the UFO community, whilst coating everything in a coating of Alien green, tend to throw up a lot of interesting stuff that gets misinterpreted. For example, the early U2 and A12 flights were often misinterpreted at 'UFO's. The CIA apparently even had a section to spread disinformation to that effect.

 

Could these walkers have been unknowing participants in a GPS area denial test, with unseen observers watching their every move to see if they began walking in circles while tapping on their GPS receivers?

[glenn239]

The Iranian F-22 killer

 

 

Has anyone ever done a point defence fighter that sacrifices range, payload and performance to achieve stealth with a couple IR missiles?

[Josh]

 

 

 

Could these walkers have been unknowing participants in a GPS area denial test, with unseen observers watching their every move to see if they began walking in circles while tapping on their GPS receivers?

 

 

isn't this something you could easily test with USAF personneland less tin foil?

[Guest Charles]

 

What I do not see, is any form of IR deflection. Other than flares, how is the PAK-FA supposed to deal with IR AAM in the merg?.

The only answer that I can come up with is that the current Engines are not what is going to be fitted to the production run a/c.

 

Still, as already pointed out, stunning looking fighter.

 

Charles

What IRCM does any other a/c carry? There are some active jammers, but you tend to only see this in low and slow designs like helicopters. Far as I know fast movers just use flares or other ejected decoys.

 

The reason for asking is that I believe the F-117 had some ability to mix cool air with f404's efflux; thus reducing it's IR signature. I would be surprised if the latest 5thgen a/c did not have some version of this.

 

Charles

[mnm]

 

The Iranian F-22 killer

 

 

Has anyone ever done a point defence fighter that sacrifices range, payload and performance to achieve stealth with a couple IR missiles?

 

 

That one is the perfect answer to your question. It sacrifices rang, payload and performance as it never leaves the ground. As for the IRs, maybe the Iranians still have a battery or two of Chaparral

[Mr King]

 

 

What I do not see, is any form of IR deflection. Other than flares, how is the PAK-FA supposed to deal with IR AAM in the merg?.

The only answer that I can come up with is that the current Engines are not what is going to be fitted to the production run a/c.

 

Still, as already pointed out, stunning looking fighter.

 

Charles

What IRCM does any other a/c carry? There are some active jammers, but you tend to only see this in low and slow designs like helicopters. Far as I know fast movers just use flares or other ejected decoys.

 

The reason for asking is that I believe the F-117 had some ability to mix cool air with f404's efflux; thus reducing it's IR signature. I would be surprised if the latest 5thgen a/c did not have some version of this.

 

Charles

 

Both the B-2 and the F-117 have features to reduce IR signature. I am not sure if the F-22 or F-35 does.

[Corinthian]

The Iranian F-22 killer

 

A member of IPMS-Tehran delivering his model to the Nationals exhibit....

 

[Archie Pellagio]

 

I dont think they have moved, simply because the place is so remote after they revoked access to 'Freedom Ridge'. Thats the real reason the Groom Lake interceptors died out, there was no place you could watch groom lake from anymore.

 

So they could keep running projects in there forever an day and nobody would know anything about it. One interesting detail came up some years ago, apparently some walkers near the site claimed that their GPS device no longer worked. So unless there was an unexpected GPS sad times around the facility, the possiblity is they were experimenting with GPS jamming (if that is indeed at all possible) or turned off access to the constellation within sight of the facility to experiment with weaponry working in revisionary mode after GPS no longer works. Possibly an advanced TLAM, maybe even the drone you show above.

 

Not sure it tells us anything, but the UFO community, whilst coating everything in a coating of Alien green, tend to throw up a lot of interesting stuff that gets misinterpreted. For example, the early U2 and A12 flights were often misinterpreted at 'UFO's. The CIA apparently even had a section to spread disinformation to that effect.

 

Could these walkers have been unknowing participants in a GPS area denial test, with unseen observers watching their every move to see if they began walking in circles while tapping on their GPS receivers?

Hell cab drivers use GPS jammers to pull a fast one on passengers and their fellow cabbies, it's hardly Scully and Moulder territory.

[glenn239]

Meh. You can see where the 2 fuselages join. Not enough polystyrene cement, and he has clearly not employed squadron filler or sandpaper.

 

Right, that thing is either a hoax or a mockup, and either way it doesn't tell us what Iran is doing, if anything.

 

I've seen plenty of articles on stealth fighter design, but these seem to focus on super-heavy designs like T-50 or F-22. I can't recall one focusing on the concept of a point defence subsonic jet with average maneuvre, IR missiles, but superior RCS.

[Mr King]

Does anyone know if this is someones wet dream or was it a serious proposal?

 

[CaptLuke]

Does anyone know if this is someones wet dream or was it a serious proposal?

 

 

 

I believe LockMart proposed it as an alternative to the JAST program after the A-12 cancellation. DoD stuck with JAST which of course was the direct precursor to JSF.

[Mr King]

[Mr King]

[Ivanhoe]

If we have a stealth aircraft, its probably a BAE Hawk with LR tanks.

 

Well, you had one, but...

 

[JW Collins]

*clip*

Slightly higher res copy of that for you. Would have been a beautiful aircraft. Lockheed's A/F-X would look good too if the radome wasn't so unusually short. Of course both NATF and A/F-X didn't get much beyond drawings, studies, and artist impressions.

Edited January 4, 2014 by JW Collins