Jeff Posted September 13, 2015 Share Posted September 13, 2015 My issue with drug testing welfare recipients is differentiation of those who used benefits to purchase drugs from those that laid down for them, traded them for other goods/services or just simply got that one joint for free. If you have money, goods to trade, or can work for drugs, you don't need taxpayers' money. Weekly drug tests for welfare recipients. Food aid should be a package of uncooked vegetables, hamburger meat and some fruit. Enough for one day. prostitution is illegal tho And if a friend offers a welfare recipient a joint or a line at a party, what then? Here's a novel idea, take a pass if you want someone else to pay for your food and shelter. I used to be quite the pothead(and a few other choice chemicals) in my youth, then I grew up. Started passing the joint to the next guy, soon followed up with the realization that hanging around with people like that wasn't doing my future very much good. Putting away childish things does wonders for your potential as an adult. If you're intent on sticking with drugs then don't expect me to keep you fed while you fuck up your life. If it's your life and you can do what you want then you can provide for yourself as well. Welcome to real life. Stupid actions get stupid results. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Simon Tan Posted September 13, 2015 Share Posted September 13, 2015 That is so aggressive. Your judgemental attitude is making me uncomfortable. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr King Posted September 13, 2015 Share Posted September 13, 2015 Same place welfare comes from dummy. Ah, China and the middle class. The nice thing is once you test long enough, the cost would drop dramatically as more and more people have disqualified themselves and no longer need tested because they can no longer receive welfare. Except there's no reason to believe that such a high number of folks would eventually disqualify themselves to the point where the state wouldn't be throwing away money in this venture. As already mentioned, if you're for this you're clearly not about trying to save the government money. No reason to believe? Is that because we are winning the "war on drugs"? The relevance of this is... what? Or are do you believe that most folks on welfare are drug users? I mean, they're there for a reason, clearly bad people, make every wrong life decision, so clearly they must all be doing drugs... right? No, I believe the majority of them are upstanding citizens who contribute greatly to their community around them. I also believe in Santa, the Easter Bunny, and the Tooth Fairy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paul G. Posted September 13, 2015 Share Posted September 13, 2015 My issue with drug testing welfare recipients is differentiation of those who used benefits to purchase drugs from those that laid down for them, traded them for other goods/services or just simply got that one joint for free. If you have money, goods to trade, or can work for drugs, you don't need taxpayers' money. Weekly drug tests for welfare recipients. Food aid should be a package of uncooked vegetables, hamburger meat and some fruit. Enough for one day. prostitution is illegal tho And if a friend offers a welfare recipient a joint or a line at a party, what then? Here's a novel idea, take a pass if you want someone else to pay for your food and shelter. I used to be quite the pothead(and a few other choice chemicals) in my youth, then I grew up. Started passing the joint to the next guy, soon followed up with the realization that hanging around with people like that wasn't doing my future very much good. Putting away childish things does wonders for your potential as an adult. If you're intent on sticking with drugs then don't expect me to keep you fed while you fuck up your life. If it's your life and you can do what you want then you can provide for yourself as well. Welcome to real life. Stupid actions get stupid results. Pretty much my early years as well. I cut off a whole group of friends, and changed direction. But I realize that grounding came from somewhere, my upbringing, my parents. Many dont have that advantage in life, especially if they come from a broken family with a single parent that works 2 jobs. Sure people make bad decisions all the time, but WE ALL deal with the colateral results. Those tend to be more expensive in the long run than food stamps, affordable public transportation, healthcare and free daycare. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paul G. Posted September 13, 2015 Share Posted September 13, 2015 That is so aggressive. Your judgemental attitude is making me uncomfortable. People's decisions are the sum of their experiences. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeff Posted September 13, 2015 Share Posted September 13, 2015 My issue with drug testing welfare recipients is differentiation of those who used benefits to purchase drugs from those that laid down for them, traded them for other goods/services or just simply got that one joint for free. If you have money, goods to trade, or can work for drugs, you don't need taxpayers' money. Weekly drug tests for welfare recipients. Food aid should be a package of uncooked vegetables, hamburger meat and some fruit. Enough for one day. prostitution is illegal tho And if a friend offers a welfare recipient a joint or a line at a party, what then? Here's a novel idea, take a pass if you want someone else to pay for your food and shelter. I used to be quite the pothead(and a few other choice chemicals) in my youth, then I grew up. Started passing the joint to the next guy, soon followed up with the realization that hanging around with people like that wasn't doing my future very much good. Putting away childish things does wonders for your potential as an adult. If you're intent on sticking with drugs then don't expect me to keep you fed while you fuck up your life. If it's your life and you can do what you want then you can provide for yourself as well. Welcome to real life. Stupid actions get stupid results. Pretty much my early years as well. I cut off a whole group of friends, and changed direction. But I realize that grounding came from somewhere, my upbringing, my parents. Many dont have that advantage in life, especially if they come from a broken family with a single parent that works 2 jobs. Sure people make bad decisions all the time, but WE ALL deal with the colateral results. Those tend to be more expensive in the long run than food stamps, affordable public transportation, healthcare and free daycare. Life doesn't care, plain and simple. Would most people do what's right if there weren't a cause and effect/stupidity hurts response? Some people have a longer view and do what's right because they can see what the effects will be down the road. Some just do what's right because the immediate negative stimuli are strong enough to push them in the opposite direction. Remove that stimuli and there's little reason for them to do what's correct and constructive. People will move heaven and earth to help someone truly in need who is trying their best but will have little sympathy for the person who doesn't give a damn, repeatedly does what's wrong or even worse is a predator on those around him. There's a guy who has physical and mental disabilities who walks a mile from his home to the bus stop in front of my office in order to get to his job as a bag boy at a supermarket on the other side of town, every day. He uses my bathroom (which I clean myself BTW) almost daily. He's a nice guy who works hard and does what he can for himself. He deserves every assistance he needs. When I see him, I don't have much patience for the thugs and wastes of skin who sit on their asses and bitch while they think of ways to scam the system and steal from each other or destroy themselves with drugs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mike Steele Posted September 13, 2015 Share Posted September 13, 2015 This thread has seen a revival in interest. Could the Left leaning folks have gotten tired of being humiliated on a nearly daily basis? Self ID follows.... :D Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JWB Posted September 13, 2015 Share Posted September 13, 2015 I do not object to the safety net.I object to machine politicians who use the safety net to manipulate impoverished frightened inner city voters. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stargrunt6 Posted September 13, 2015 Share Posted September 13, 2015 I agree that: 1) People who want to use drugs will use them. 2) Tying this to benefits will be costly. Also: 3) Those who run welfare systems help people cheat the system. 4) Not all drug use is bad. In fact, I think given how hard it can be in poor neighborhoods, a joint might suffice the same as an SSRI. There are perfectly functioning people who do drugs, even hard drugs. Not encouraging, but it's out there. 5) Again, we have issues like any other medical tests, the big ones being: selectivity and positive predictive value. And then there's the issue of what is going to happen to recipients who test positive: here comes the ever-friendly War-on-Drugs machine to further make their life more difficult. And we all know how easy it is to get work if you have a record. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeff Posted September 13, 2015 Share Posted September 13, 2015 I reject that doing drugs, especially hard drugs is posible for a "perfectly functioning" person. Sorry, I'm just not buying it from my experience. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Skywalkre Posted September 14, 2015 Share Posted September 14, 2015 I reject that doing drugs, especially hard drugs is posible for a "perfectly functioning" person. Sorry, I'm just not buying it from my experience.After the crash of '08 there was some focus on the lifestyles of these big Wall Street bankers and the subject of drugs, cocaine use in particular IIRC, came up quite a bit. You can argue about whether 'perfectly functioning' describes these folks given what transpired, but that's for another discussion. It also highlights an important issue some on this forum seem to overlook: you need lots of money to get some of these drugs. Folks on welfare don't have that. Instead folks in that spectrum that need to turn to something more often turn to alcohol given the ease, both cost and availability, of obtaining it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr King Posted September 14, 2015 Share Posted September 14, 2015 I reject that doing drugs, especially hard drugs is posible for a "perfectly functioning" person. Sorry, I'm just not buying it from my experience.After the crash of '08 there was some focus on the lifestyles of these big Wall Street bankers and the subject of drugs, cocaine use in particular IIRC, came up quite a bit. You can argue about whether 'perfectly functioning' describes these folks given what transpired, but that's for another discussion. It also highlights an important issue some on this forum seem to overlook: you need lots of money to get some of these drugs. Folks on welfare don't have that. Instead folks in that spectrum that need to turn to something more often turn to alcohol given the ease, both cost and availability, of obtaining it. Look bleeding heart, I will be happy to take you to the depths of the ghetto and teach you what to look for on the ground to see just how wide spread and rampant crack cocaine and other drug use is. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Skywalkre Posted September 14, 2015 Share Posted September 14, 2015 I reject that doing drugs, especially hard drugs is posible for a "perfectly functioning" person. Sorry, I'm just not buying it from my experience.After the crash of '08 there was some focus on the lifestyles of these big Wall Street bankers and the subject of drugs, cocaine use in particular IIRC, came up quite a bit. You can argue about whether 'perfectly functioning' describes these folks given what transpired, but that's for another discussion. It also highlights an important issue some on this forum seem to overlook: you need lots of money to get some of these drugs. Folks on welfare don't have that. Instead folks in that spectrum that need to turn to something more often turn to alcohol given the ease, both cost and availability, of obtaining it. Look bleeding heart, I will be happy to take you to the depths of the ghetto and teach you what to look for on the ground to see just how wide spread and rampant crack cocaine and other drug use is. Do some in the lower realms of the SES use those drugs? Sure. Not arguing that. I'm arguing that not as many do as some of you want to believe. And bleeding heart... really? Skirt that line of name calling. Really mature. If you're going to call me anything call me what I prefer... Christian. Of course, I'm the kind that actually listened to those sermons growing up. The ones where we should love and help our fellow man. I somehow missed the ones where I'm supposed to be all about hating gays and such... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr King Posted September 14, 2015 Share Posted September 14, 2015 I reject that doing drugs, especially hard drugs is posible for a "perfectly functioning" person. Sorry, I'm just not buying it from my experience.After the crash of '08 there was some focus on the lifestyles of these big Wall Street bankers and the subject of drugs, cocaine use in particular IIRC, came up quite a bit. You can argue about whether 'perfectly functioning' describes these folks given what transpired, but that's for another discussion. It also highlights an important issue some on this forum seem to overlook: you need lots of money to get some of these drugs. Folks on welfare don't have that. Instead folks in that spectrum that need to turn to something more often turn to alcohol given the ease, both cost and availability, of obtaining it. Look bleeding heart, I will be happy to take you to the depths of the ghetto and teach you what to look for on the ground to see just how wide spread and rampant crack cocaine and other drug use is. Do some in the lower realms of the SES use those drugs? Sure. Not arguing that. I'm arguing that not as many do as some of you want to believe. And bleeding heart... really? Skirt that line of name calling. Really mature. If you're going to call me anything call me what I prefer... Christian. Of course, I'm the kind that actually listened to those sermons growing up. The ones where we should love and help our fellow man. I somehow missed the ones where I'm supposed to be all about hating gays and such... Hey man that's your problem. I am not a Christian so I really don't have those issues. Good luck with being pious and all that jazz. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Skywalkre Posted September 14, 2015 Share Posted September 14, 2015 I reject that doing drugs, especially hard drugs is posible for a "perfectly functioning" person. Sorry, I'm just not buying it from my experience.After the crash of '08 there was some focus on the lifestyles of these big Wall Street bankers and the subject of drugs, cocaine use in particular IIRC, came up quite a bit. You can argue about whether 'perfectly functioning' describes these folks given what transpired, but that's for another discussion. It also highlights an important issue some on this forum seem to overlook: you need lots of money to get some of these drugs. Folks on welfare don't have that. Instead folks in that spectrum that need to turn to something more often turn to alcohol given the ease, both cost and availability, of obtaining it. Look bleeding heart, I will be happy to take you to the depths of the ghetto and teach you what to look for on the ground to see just how wide spread and rampant crack cocaine and other drug use is. Do some in the lower realms of the SES use those drugs? Sure. Not arguing that. I'm arguing that not as many do as some of you want to believe. And bleeding heart... really? Skirt that line of name calling. Really mature. If you're going to call me anything call me what I prefer... Christian. Of course, I'm the kind that actually listened to those sermons growing up. The ones where we should love and help our fellow man. I somehow missed the ones where I'm supposed to be all about hating gays and such... Hey man that's your problem. I am not a Christian so I really don't have those issues. Good luck with being pious and all that jazz. What problem? There's actually some good arguments to be made that we can help more people than we do now and spend less as a government if we simply stop focusing on persecuting folks like you and others on here are all about. How would that be a problem? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Jason L Posted September 14, 2015 Share Posted September 14, 2015 (edited) I reject that doing drugs, especially hard drugs is posible for a "perfectly functioning" person. Sorry, I'm just not buying it from my experience. I've never seen the earth from space so I'm not buying that it's round. Then your experiences are wrong. Edited September 14, 2015 by Jason L Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr King Posted September 14, 2015 Share Posted September 14, 2015 I reject that doing drugs, especially hard drugs is posible for a "perfectly functioning" person. Sorry, I'm just not buying it from my experience.After the crash of '08 there was some focus on the lifestyles of these big Wall Street bankers and the subject of drugs, cocaine use in particular IIRC, came up quite a bit. You can argue about whether 'perfectly functioning' describes these folks given what transpired, but that's for another discussion. It also highlights an important issue some on this forum seem to overlook: you need lots of money to get some of these drugs. Folks on welfare don't have that. Instead folks in that spectrum that need to turn to something more often turn to alcohol given the ease, both cost and availability, of obtaining it. Look bleeding heart, I will be happy to take you to the depths of the ghetto and teach you what to look for on the ground to see just how wide spread and rampant crack cocaine and other drug use is. Do some in the lower realms of the SES use those drugs? Sure. Not arguing that. I'm arguing that not as many do as some of you want to believe. And bleeding heart... really? Skirt that line of name calling. Really mature. If you're going to call me anything call me what I prefer... Christian. Of course, I'm the kind that actually listened to those sermons growing up. The ones where we should love and help our fellow man. I somehow missed the ones where I'm supposed to be all about hating gays and such... Hey man that's your problem. I am not a Christian so I really don't have those issues. Good luck with being pious and all that jazz. What problem? There's actually some good arguments to be made that we can help more people than we do now and spend less as a government if we simply stop focusing on persecuting folks like you and others on here are all about. How would that be a problem? Mr Christian have you not read the thread? I am all for legalizing drugs. There is no need for drugs to be illegal if society actually enforced the laws and served proper punishment for regular crimes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Jason L Posted September 14, 2015 Share Posted September 14, 2015 I know....we should diffuse this by talking about Kim Davis, the hero! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mike Steele Posted September 14, 2015 Share Posted September 14, 2015 I know....we should diffuse this by talking about Kim Davis, the hero!Well there is always the "heros" of sanctuary cities. Lets talk about them shall we?http://hotair.com/archives/2015/09/12/sanctuary-city-enjoys-skyrocketing-rates-of-murder-rape/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Jason L Posted September 14, 2015 Share Posted September 14, 2015 (edited) I know....we should diffuse this by talking about Kim Davis, the hero!Well there is always the "heros" of sanctuary cities. Lets talk about them shall we?http://hotair.com/archives/2015/09/12/sanctuary-city-enjoys-skyrocketing-rates-of-murder-rape/ I like how I get accused of moving goalposts, but that it's otherwise totally ok to deflect by shifting to an entirely different game. Where's the pre-2011 data so that we can see this huge jump? Edited September 14, 2015 by Jason L Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mike Steele Posted September 14, 2015 Share Posted September 14, 2015 I know....we should diffuse this by talking about Kim Davis, the hero!Well there is always the "heros" of sanctuary cities. Lets talk about them shall we?http://hotair.com/archives/2015/09/12/sanctuary-city-enjoys-skyrocketing-rates-of-murder-rape/ I like how I get accused of moving goalposts, but that it's otherwise totally ok to deflect by shifting to an entirely different game. Where's the pre-2011 data so that we can see this huge jump? Well even I know Kim does not have a dick... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rmgill Posted September 14, 2015 Share Posted September 14, 2015 I do not object to the safety net.I object to machine politicians who use the safety net to manipulate impoverished frightened inner city voters. If it's a safety net, one falls, one lands in it, then one gets out of it and start climbing again. If' it's a hammock, one lays in it and KEEPS laying in it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr King Posted September 14, 2015 Share Posted September 14, 2015 I know....we should diffuse this by talking about Kim Davis, the hero! I think that would go in the other thread, she is an elected democrat politician after all. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Simon Tan Posted September 14, 2015 Share Posted September 14, 2015 I support the distribution of crystal meth to the public school system. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EchoFiveMike Posted September 14, 2015 Share Posted September 14, 2015 The people on the welfare system are not functional by definition. They're either bustout losers or deliberate scammers, often both. You get what you subsidize; we're promoting failure. "Functional" hard drug users? Depends on your definitions. Sure, I know lots of speedball salesmen and coked up truckers....depends on your definitions. They're not on the dole, so that's something, but generally pretty fucking shitty people. Shifty...untrustworthy....never get between them and their dope. They do their part making society suck a little more. Nothing like finding some comatose jackass on the floor of the bathroom with a needle in his arm after getting the junk out of his car that the cops didn't find. Yep, had the LINK(IL EBT) card in his wallet. Should have kicked him in the temple and waited 20 min before calling the paramedics. Oh well, live and learn. S/F.....Ken M Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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