The Insane Rationalizations, Bigotry And Hypocrisy Of The Right

[CT96]

 

Yeah, but the DCM became the CMP, and is still on essentially that same mission.

 

Yeah, like a 69 Boss 302 is essentially the same as a 78 Mustang 2. I experienced the changeover 1st hand. I'll see if I can post pictures to demonstrate the difference. S/F.....Ken M

 

 

Let's see... under the DCM qualifying civilians could (eventually) get one rifle from the DCM stocks, selected basically at random. Limited funds were actually applied to marksmanship training.

 

Under the CMP qualifying civilians get multiple rifles of whatever types and specifications, quality, etc (depending upon what is in stock). Many training resources are available, and many marksmanship competitions are held. There is an active CMP community both on the internet http://forums.thecmp.org/and in the real world.

 

I have a safe full of CMP and former CMP (acquired from someone who acquired them from the CMP) vintage rifles. I use them in education in history, firearm safety, and marksmanship training. I would likely still be waiting on my one and only lifetime DCM.

 

So, yeah. The CMP is on (in broad strokes) the same mission as the DCM. It is arguably doing a much better job than the DCM ever did.

[Ivanhoe]

Hey a 78 Mustang 2 King Cobra edition made 105HP at the rear wheels! (maybe, could've been less than that)

 

When it would start...

[Panzermann]

 

 

Yeah, but the DCM became the CMP, and is still on essentially that same mission.

Yeah, like a 69 Boss 302 is essentially the same as a 78 Mustang 2. I experienced the changeover 1st hand. I'll see if I can post pictures to demonstrate the difference. S/F.....Ken M

Instead of making wonky car comparisons please lay out your criticisms of the CMP. CT96's description makes the programme look rather sensible and useful to train the population in marksmanship.

[BP]

If that presumed gunman had only 1% of what it takes to be a gunman, there should have been more shots shot, and more victims than a lone floorboard.

 

False flags, false flags everywhere (when MSM is reporting, of course).

 

Well, at least they had the courtesy to hire a REAL actor this time. Quit hiring scabs and support a union member with a SAG card- live up to your Democrat ideals!

 

[Mike Steele]

https://www.yahoo.com/news/comet-pizza-owner-rips-fake-news-after-gunman-tells-police-he-was-there-to-self-investigate-election-conspiracy-150753146.html

 

Someone mention "Pizza Gate"?

 

Just got weirder. Thanks to LTG Flynn for perpetuating the BS that led to the restaurant employees being endangered by some nutjob.

So the DC city council bears no part of the "blame"? The refusal to grant the right of self defense against "nutjobs" is fundamental. But we wont talk about that, lets blame LTG Flynn and the Press plays no part either.... :rolleyes: (Hint try sourcing your news from some source other than Yahoo, you will get a better product. )

[Paul G.]

http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2016/12/05/how-internet-conspiracy-theory-led-gunman-into-dc-pizza-parlor.html

 

By all means Mike please point me to a better source that has a different take on the story (Hint its all over the place). Sorry I didn't source Fox news because they had THE SAME STORY.

 

So unless you are counting the underground shyte-gob media...which is touting him as a Democratic false-flag operative .

[EchoFiveMike]

 

 

Yeah, but the DCM became the CMP, and is still on essentially that same mission.

 

Yeah, like a 69 Boss 302 is essentially the same as a 78 Mustang 2. I experienced the changeover 1st hand. I'll see if I can post pictures to demonstrate the difference. S/F.....Ken M

 

 

Let's see... under the DCM qualifying civilians could (eventually) get one rifle from the DCM stocks, selected basically at random. Limited funds were actually applied to marksmanship training.

 

Under the CMP qualifying civilians get multiple rifles of whatever types and specifications, quality, etc (depending upon what is in stock). Many training resources are available, and many marksmanship competitions are held. There is an active CMP community both on the internet http://forums.thecmp.org/and in the real world.

 

I have a safe full of CMP and former CMP (acquired from someone who acquired them from the CMP) vintage rifles. I use them in education in history, firearm safety, and marksmanship training. I would likely still be waiting on my one and only lifetime DCM.

 

So, yeah. The CMP is on (in broad strokes) the same mission as the DCM. It is arguably doing a much better job than the DCM ever did.

 

 

The purpose of the DCM/CMP isn't to provide collectors with guns, it's to foster firearms training and marksmanship among military age males, or soon to be MAM's. Therefore one rifle at $165 is more useful than unlimited rifles at $400+ or whatever because now they have to generate revenue.

 

There were far more and far larger EIC(leg) matches back when DCM provided USG ammo as part of your match fees. Leg matches often had 6 and 7 relays on 20-25 pt ranges back in the day. Admittedly, most were duffers, but they were there and doing something. Also the National Matches at Camp Perry had far more people attended, with more people being at the Small Arms Firing Schools. Back in the DCM days, there were 3500+ shooters for service rifle week, now there's circa 2000 ish. Yes, the CMP is a good org, no argument, but it's a fraction of what the DCM provided because they don't have the resources anymore, they have to self fund. States orgs used to get ammo, components, money for subsidizing junior shooters, loner rifles (real NM M14's at the time, as well as almost unlimited numbers of NM M1Garands, which few actually used) The CMP deserves credit for being resourceful to continue their mission, but they're going to run out of surplus stuff to sell unless they can get laws changed regarding NFA surplus weapons, which makes them subject to shitlib politicians. S/F.....Ken M

[Paul G.]

The DCM (1903 same year as the Militia act) was relevant when the draft was considered a necessary tool to defend the Nation due to the small size of the Regular Army. It, along with the Dick Act, was part of an effort by congress to make the militia better "regulated".

 

Now the CMP is basically a youth development and sales program.

[rmgill]

 

The purpose of the DCM/CMP isn't to provide collectors with guns, it's to foster firearms training and marksmanship among military age males, or soon to be MAM's. Therefore one rifle at $165 is more useful than unlimited rifles at $400+ or whatever because now they have to generate revenue.

 

 

 

Getting to shooters in the high school years WOULD be better than proffering M1 Garands and '03 Springfields to 30 and 40 somethings.

[CT96]

Well, there were only a few million total USGI rifles through the M1 Garands and Carbines...

 

M1 Garand - 6.25M

M1 Carbine - 6.5M

1903/03a3/03a4 - 1.3M (a significant portion of which were not double-heat-treated and considered unsafe to fire)

1918 - 2.1M

Krag-Jorgensen - 700k total production (only part of which was US stocks).

 

That totals to under 17M.

 

How many males of military age are there in this country of ~325M?

 

The stated objective is to provide marksmanship training for MAMs. That was *never* going to happen with a total production count so low. The right way to do it is to sell them to collectors for a profit (which the CMP is doing) and using that profit to fund the programs of the actual mission. Due to congressional restrictions, they cannot sell pistols, nor anything more modern (no M14, no M21, no M16, no M2, M3, M4, no Machine Guns of any vintage, etc). USGI production of .30-06 and .30-carbine ended decades ago. The surplus stocks are gone, and aren't coming back.

 

I worked for years with a youth marksmanship team which competed with my vintage arms. They've mostly all gone on as adults to owning their own modern sporting arms. Meanwhile, the next generation is getting started with the vintage arms.

 

You want to provide functional firearms and firearm training to coming-of-age MAM, you provide modern sporting arms (e.g. AR15). Good luck getting THAT through the political process - to Swiss-like provide a modern firearm to every Military Age Male in the US. You take up that charge, and I'll be right there with you supporting your cause and voting for that. But lets be realistic about what the numbers and realities are. Those vintage rifles are but a piece of the puzzle that you are trying to make the whole. Too many of the usual suspects will go to the mat to prevent the outright issuing of a modern rifle to every military age male that wants one for a nominal fee, regardless of how good an idea it might be.

[Paul G.]

The "Swiss-like modern firearm to every military age male system" comes with compulsory military service.

[CT96]

The "Swiss-like modern firearm to every military age male system" comes with compulsory military service.

I actually would not be opposed to that either. Gives everyone from all walks of life some common ground. I'm a white collar worker that sits and stares at computer screens for a living; yet my military service gives me a shared experience with the blue-collar guy that is on the next stool at the bar - even if our service times were decades apart (and often they have been). The loss of that shared experience has been replaced by what? Two and a Half Men? CSI? Star Wars? Hardly in the same class of experience. Several times in my service I was with NYC Street Kids, Midwestern Farm Boys, California surfers, and Texas ranchers. I kept looking around for the camera because of how stereotypical it was. Yet, we all shared in that. A short compulsory service like Switzerland (not all are actually military - they can serve as hospital aids, etc) would go a long way to healing some of the divides we have in this country.

[sunday]

CT96, Were you thinking about breaking some stereotypes when you bought that car?

 

BTW, nice rifle collection!

[Paul G.]

I agree on the compulsory service being an idea worth exploring. But the cost would be enormous. Current infrastructure wouldn't support it, so would require a huge up front investment. Doing it without a significant tax increase would balloon the debt exponentially. That's just for the DoD. There is no agency to manage pubic service in other sectors, so would have to be created.

[Ivanhoe]

I agree on the compulsory service being an idea worth exploring. But the cost would be enormous. Current infrastructure wouldn't support it, so would require a huge up front investment.

 

This. BRAC pretty much torpedoed the US's ability to substantially grow the military. Of course, we do have thousands of square miles of National Forest and National Park space that could be repurposed...

 

And a city like Detroit could have 25% of its 'burbs bulldonzed and turned into a suburban warfare center...

 

As for public service, perhaps go back to the State Guard thing and have a civilian component with public service and public works.

[Ivanhoe]

 

The "Swiss-like modern firearm to every military age male system" comes with compulsory military service.

I actually would not be opposed to that either. Gives everyone from all walks of life some common ground. I'm a white collar worker that sits and stares at computer screens for a living; yet my military service gives me a shared experience with the blue-collar guy that is on the next stool at the bar - even if our service times were decades apart (and often they have been). The loss of that shared experience has been replaced by what? Two and a Half Men? CSI? Star Wars? Hardly in the same class of experience. Several times in my service I was with NYC Street Kids, Midwestern Farm Boys, California surfers, and Texas ranchers. I kept looking around for the camera because of how stereotypical it was. Yet, we all shared in that. A short compulsory service like Switzerland (not all are actually military - they can serve as hospital aids, etc) would go a long way to healing some of the divides we have in this country.

 

 

College, including research universities, used to be like that, but with the outlandish growth in tuition rates, much less so these days from what I hear.

[CT96]

CT96, Were you thinking about breaking some stereotypes when you bought that car?

 

BTW, nice rifle collection!

 

Nabqrules asked if it was camouflage when I told him. To some extent, it is. Mostly, however, it's about fuel economy for my commute. I also have an F150 that I use for hauling things, but I figured the Prius was better for the I&I transportation.

[sunday]

Still a bit shocking. This thread has clarified that ITAR thing about training to me, however. Thanks!

[CT96]

 

 

The "Swiss-like modern firearm to every military age male system" comes with compulsory military service.

I actually would not be opposed to that either. Gives everyone from all walks of life some common ground. I'm a white collar worker that sits and stares at computer screens for a living; yet my military service gives me a shared experience with the blue-collar guy that is on the next stool at the bar - even if our service times were decades apart (and often they have been). The loss of that shared experience has been replaced by what? Two and a Half Men? CSI? Star Wars? Hardly in the same class of experience. Several times in my service I was with NYC Street Kids, Midwestern Farm Boys, California surfers, and Texas ranchers. I kept looking around for the camera because of how stereotypical it was. Yet, we all shared in that. A short compulsory service like Switzerland (not all are actually military - they can serve as hospital aids, etc) would go a long way to healing some of the divides we have in this country.

 

 

College, including research universities, used to be like that, but with the outlandish growth in tuition rates, much less so these days from what I hear.

 

 

Dunno. I have a bit of a shared experience with fellow alumni, but it's tougher to have that kinship with students of other decades at the same school; additionally, it gives me little comradeship with similarly degreed individuals from other schools. The relationship between the Engineering students at my school and the Fine Arts students at my school are about as different as the relationship with the Fine Arts students at a school halfway across the country (that is to say, none). I find closer kinship with Engineering students from Stanford, Cal Tech, MIT, etc. than I do with Fine Arts students at my own school.

 

College, for the most part, is not a hardship (for most), it is either an opportunity to advance, or an opportunity to party. Service, on the other hand, is a hardship. It is something we endure. That shared hardship is a uniting force. Shared drunken parties/orgies? Waking up for that 9:00 class?

[CT96]

Still a bit shocking. This thread has clarified that ITAR thing about training to me, however. Thanks!

You were shocked that I drove a Prius?

 

International Traffic in Arms Regulations (ITAR) is what kept me from being able to provide anything more than safety training at our I&I Range event.

[Stargrunt6]

I heard Prium er Priuses, er Prii keep their value.

 

If college was a hardship, you probably suffered alone.

[CT96]

Dunno... Engineering was a tough program. We didn't suffer alone, but that's also not the standard by which college education today should be judged.

 

Priuii keep reasonable value, and I went from spending $30 every week to $20 every month. Even going uphill into the wind at full power I burn less fuel with the Prius than I did at level cruise with the F150.

[sunday]

Only "a bit shocking". Make that "curious", like if you were driving a Volvo, more or less. But the Engineering background could explain a bit, especially if it's in Electrical/Electronics Eng.

 

I am very thankful of your safety introduction, of the opportunity to shoot something powder-driven for the first day in my life, and of having you around on that day. Could not have asked more, knowing of that restriction, but I could see it's a very reasonable restriction.

Edited December 9, 2016 by sunday

[Panzermann]

Dunno... Engineering was a tough program. We didn't suffer alone, but that's also not the standard by which college education today should be judged.

 

Priuii keep reasonable value, and I went from spending $30 every week to $20 every month. Even going uphill into the wind at full power I burn less fuel with the Prius than I did at level cruise with the F150.

Choosing the right tool for the job. A pick up truck driving around mostly empty to get you to work is obviously not.

 

The biggest advantage of the Prius is its aero dynamic shape anyway. Especially compared to the F150 that has the streamline shape of an IKEA wardrobe. Being over all smaller and lighter is probably not hurting either for the daily commute of a single butt and not much else.

[BP]

 

Dunno... Engineering was a tough program. We didn't suffer alone, but that's also not the standard by which college education today should be judged.

 

Priuii keep reasonable value, and I went from spending $30 every week to $20 every month. Even going uphill into the wind at full power I burn less fuel with the Prius than I did at level cruise with the F150.

Choosing the right tool for the job. A pick up truck driving around mostly empty to get you to work is obviously not.

 

The biggest advantage of the Prius is its aero dynamic shape anyway. Especially compared to the F150 that has the streamline shape of an IKEA wardrobe. Being over all smaller and lighter is probably not hurting either for the daily commute of a single butt and not much else.

 

 

 

Only because a Prius wouldn't actually fit in the bed of an F-150 (you'd need more of an F-350 for that).