Jump to content

Visualised T. O. E.


Fritz

Recommended Posts

Halftrack porn! I wanted to finish the StuG battery today but I am getting tired. We'll see.

 

Isn't the 250 series the cutest??? I just love the critters.

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Replies 245
  • Created
  • Last Reply

Top Posters In This Topic

OK I decided to use the table Leo provided a few posts earlier for the time being. So here's a provisional StuG battery vis. I substituted a Kfz 15 for the heavy civilian car (no clue what it's supposed to be) and the combat train lacks one trailer (I guess it's the Gulaschkanone) but so be it. Might come back and update it later, especially if I find more info on units at the start of Barbarossa.

 

 

 

Now I have to switch to another project for a few days so I can't promise any more updates until I'm done there.

Edited by Fritz
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Looking good.

Civilian vehicles — both personnel and load carrying — could be any of a whole range of German or booty vehicles, of all brands, makes, models, etc. Take your pick.

The third trailer was not a Gulashkanone. Motorized artillery units had field stove(s) ( Feldküche(n) ) mounted on 3-ton trucks in the Gefechtstrosss. I suspect that the third trailer was a towed generator/battery charger (Anhänger (1 achs.) für Sammlerladegerät — Sd.Ah. 23). In which case, one of the 3-ton trucks was a battery vehicle (Sammlerkraftwagen — Kfz. 42).

Cheers
Leo

Link to comment
Share on other sites

All that German hardware needs a suitable backdrop. Like the Champs Elysee...... :).

 

Leo...hit us up with some Begleitkompanie KstNs. They are my favorite ones......you can have almost anything in them. Germans being Germans will no doubt have one for each!

Edited by Simon Tan
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Question for Leo:

the table you provided lists FIVE trucks for the maintenance section, why is that? K.St.N.446a (1.11.1941) shows only two trucks, with a third one authorized for independent batteries. The same sections for panzer companies have just one truck and two sdkfz 10s.

Could it be because there are so many more different vehicles in the 1940 style battery? After all the late '41 table has no 252s, 253s, 10s and 11s. That's a significant reduction in vehicles. So fewer spare parts needed and thus fewer trucks?

 

Also, what was the purpose of the Sd.Kfz.11s in the platoons? More ammo carriers?...

 

Do you have an earlier KStN? I just noticed in that Osprey book that indeed initially the battery was authorized to have five 253s and SIX 252s.

Edited by Fritz
Link to comment
Share on other sites

I do not have earlier KStN for assault artillery other than the ones posted above. And I was very glad to to have found them. There are none in the any of the various archives KStN files. Occasionally, one stumbles across something in another file. That's a great day!

As indicated, the 1940 KStNs on which the above text is based are diagrams, which do not indicate the functions of the various people and vehicles.

------------------------------
Further remarks concerning KStN:
KStN often reflected planning, and had to be corrected and/or amended as reality set in. The light armored series (the Sd.Kfz. 250s) were just starting to come off the production lines in, and the chassis were needed for the armored reconnaissance companies. The 3-ton, medium halftrack chassis, both armored and soft-skinned, were also in short supply. Again, planning based on production forecasts which were not fulfilled.

Please note that the Germans did not necessarily issue their KStN on the dates indicated on them, and it is highly unlikely that units conformed to the KStN on their issue dates. The KStN could be distributed before or after (retroactively to) the issue date. The issue date merely referred to a specific deadline upon which the KStN was to become effective. A KStN was only applied to a unit when specifically ordered to do so. In some cases, units were ordered to use an older KStN as opposed to a new one. In others, units still had KStN that were a year or more older than newer version(s) published.
------------------------------

Begleit companies first made their appearance in 1944.

The infantry version (Sturmgeschützbegleitkompanie — KStN 448, dated 15.02.1944:
Battery Headquarters: 1 bicycle; 2 motorcycles; 1 VW.
1st – 3rd Escort Platoons, each with
• Platoon Headquarters Section: 6 men,; 1 truck (3-ton). [1]
• 3×SMG Squads: 15 men. All men on foot, and each armed with an SMG.
• 4×Scout Sections: 1 motorcycle with sidecar; 4 men, all armed with SMG. [2]
Battery Trains: 2 trucks (3-ton); 1 LMG.

Redesignated as Begleitgrenadierbatterie einer Heeres-Sturmartilleriebrigade — KStN 448, dated 01.12.1944:
Battery Headquarters: 1 motorcycle; 2 VW.
1st – 3rd Infantry Platoons, each with
• Platoon Headquarters Section: 6 men; 1 truck (3-ton). [1]
• 3×Infantry Squads: 12 men. All men on foot; 8 armed with Sturmgewehr, 3 with Selbstladegewehr, and one man with an LMG & pistol.
Pioneer Platoon
• Platoon Headquarters Section: 12 men; 1 VW; 3 trucks (4½-ton). [1]
• 3×Pioneer Squads: 13 men. All men on foot; 9 with rifles, 3 with Sturmgewehr, and one LMG gunner with a LMG & pistol.
Battery Trains: 1 truck (2-ton); 1 truck (3-ton).

[1] For transport of ammo, baggage, and rations, only.
[2] One each for the three assault gun battery commanders, and one for three platoon leaders.


The armored version (Begleitpanzerbatterie (Panzer-II) — KStN 447, dated 15.02.1944 ):
Battery Headquarters: 1 VW; 1 motorcycle with sidecar; 1 Schwimm-VW; 1 Pz-II (Sd.Kfz. 121).
1st – 3rd Tank Platoons: 1 VW; 4 Pz-II (Sd.Kfz. 121).
Maintenance Section: 1 VW; 1 maint truck (2-ton, equipped as a Kfz. 2/40); 2 trucks (3-ton); 2 halftracks, 1-ton (Sd.Kfz. 10).
Battery Trains: 1 VW; 8 trucks (3-ton); 2 LMG.


There was even a proposal for an armored infantry version, (Sturmgeschützbegleitkompanie (gepanzert), although without a KStN, dated 21.06.1944). But I digress.

Very few battalions were ever authorized the Pz-II batteries. Possibly only the 667. Sturmartilleriebrigade. When authorized the infantry batteries, the designation of the battalion was changed from Sturmgeschütz-Brigade to Sturmartillerie-Brigade. Don't be irritated by the "Brigade" nomenclature. They were battalion-sized units. I won't get into the Germans' (mis)use of nomenclature — that subject is worthy of a book by itself.


Cheers

Leo

(corrected for grammar)

Edited by Leo Niehorster
Link to comment
Share on other sites

The third trailer was not a Gulashkanone. Motorized artillery units had field stove(s) ( Feldküche(n) ) mounted on 3-ton trucks in the Gefechtstrosss.

 

Is this our guy?

 

 

 

Also, an utterly awesome site with the most obscure trucks imaginable

 

http://www.autogallery.org.ru/gal.htm

 

 

And this one has been very helpful as well.

 

http://www.german.o5m6.de/

 

 

...

 

look what I found :)

 

http://www.bunkermilitaria.com/Merchant2/merchant.mvc?Screen=PROD&Product_Code=5086&Category_Code=

 

the dimensions given for the vehicle are really important to me in order to make a model that's to scale. This is really hard to find for obscure vehicles.

 

edit: I feel dumb, I totally ignored all this info on the Lone Sentry website...

Edited by Fritz
Link to comment
Share on other sites

 

The third trailer was not a Gulashkanone. Motorized artillery units had field stove(s) ( Feldküche(n) ) mounted on 3-ton trucks in the Gefechtstrosss.

 

Is this our guy?

 

Nice finds. Yep, that's one.

 

Also http://www.panzerarmee.com/

and http://www.kfzderwehrmacht.de/

 

Cheers

Leo

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I've been using the kfzderwehrmacht site, but the other one is new to me, thanks!

... unfortunately it has only a few pages with content under Vehicles.

Edited by Fritz
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Enough of this German rear echelon rubbish!

 

Tanknet needs you to visualize its alt-history RusAm Guards Cavalry Brigade that is being assembled for NW Europe. M18s, M39s, assorted trucks and Half Tracks and attached Czech Cromwells, Challys and Stuarts. Lots and lots of lovely armor to model, including utterly fictional stuff you can make up like the M45 SP Howitzer (M41(H2) 105mm Skoda on a M39) and M39s with gun shields.

 

See Banshee One for a TOE.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

(Saw you post in thre "Jüterbog Military Vehicle Show". Thought an answer would be more appropraie here.)

Looks like an early heavy Einheits series chassis, with a heavy car/light truck body.

Here's a later version, as a model:
http://www.amps-armor.org/ampssite/reviews/showReview.aspx?ID=2407&Type=FB

There are other vehicles discussed here:
http://www.amps-armor.org/ampssite/reviews/reviewsIndex.aspx?type=FB

For example:

The medium field car (Kfz. 15) could be any of the following: m. Einheits-PKW; Auto Union / Horch 830-R; Daimler-Benz 340-WK & L1500A; Horch 830-R & 830-BL; Steyr 250; Stoewer M-12-RW; and that's only the German military vehicles.

The ambulance (Kfz. 31) could be the s Einheits-PKW; Phänomen Granit 25H; Steyr 640, 1500A; Adler W-61K; Daimler-Benz L1000, L1500E; Ford G917, G987, 997, V3000S, V3000A.

 

etc., .etc.


In addition to the authorized vehicles, many other vehicles could be encountered.

German requisitioned civilian vehicles, (by no means 4×4).

The occupied countries also provided a plentiful source for vehicles.

As you know, the Germans often indicated only the type of vehicle in the tables of organization, not the manufacturer/make/model/year/etc.

 

If you will tell me what you are looking for I might be able to help.

Cheers
Leo

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Hi Leo,

after checking through my sources, I'm plumping for a m. gl. Einheits-Pkw Horch/Siegmar Typ 901 Kfz. 15. Of course if it had the extra stowage for theodolites, Scherenfernrohr and other surveying equipment it would now be either the Kfz. 16 mittlerer Messtruppkraftwagen or the Kfz. 16/1 Vorwarnerkraftwagen as used in the Vermessungs- Schall- und Lichtmessbatterien of the artillery.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Yeah, you're right. It's a medium field car.

 

Attached is a PDF list of Kfz. with "approved" marks and makes. Of course, as indicated, just about any motor vehicle that even vaguely met the needs and that they could get their hands on was used.

kfz.pdf

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Leo,

 

thanks for the list, an excellent piece of work. Is it based on Oswald?

 

A minor quibble, however; personally I would translate Meß (see Kfz. 16) as Survey - Calibration is more what one does to instruments.

 

For what its worth, De Vries translates Meßtruppekraftwagen as Flash-and sound-ranging-detail truck

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Hi Dave,

I should have said that this is an excerpt from the appendices of my organizational volumes, and is compiled from many sources.

Re: Kfz. 16, Flash-and sound-ranging detail truck, it is used for other things as well within the artillery observation battalion:
— Calibration Platoon of the Calibration Battery,
— Warning Platoon in the Sound Ranging Battery,
— Sound Ranging Platoon in the Sound Ranging Battery,
— Flash Ranging Platoon in the Flash Ranging Battery,
— Battery Headquarters of the all three battery headquarters, as well as that of the Balloon Battery.

I do realize that calibration in the artillery sense is only the measurement of the muzzle velocity, (the same as the German Vo). To avoid confusion with the cartographic survey units and their equipment, I have used calibration. Calibration is also the comparison between measurements, which is basically what various elements of the artillery observation units do.


Cheers
Leo

(Edited to correct formatting mistake)

Edited by Leo Niehorster
Link to comment
Share on other sites

I, who just dips his toe in this sort of thing, should have known better not to have taken on Neptune (in a manner of speaking)!

 

I see what you did there.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now

×
×
  • Create New...