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Posted

A short video made by 18th Mechanized Division, from recent Niedźwiedź 22 (Bear 22) excercises. :)

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Posted
55 minutes ago, Damian said:

A short video made by 18th Mechanized Division, from recent Niedźwiedź 22 (Bear 22) excercises. :)

Wich song is this first one

Posted (edited)
13 minutes ago, Perun said:

Wich song is this first one

A children's song, 'Stary niedźwiedź mocno śpi' (Old bear sleeps soundly). 

PS. There's a feature for google app on mobile that recognizes what song is being played, I used it many times when I heard something I liked in the radio.

Edited by urbanoid
Posted
1 hour ago, urbanoid said:

A children's song, 'Stary niedźwiedź mocno śpi' (Old bear sleeps soundly). 

PS. There's a feature for google app on mobile that recognizes what song is being played, I used it many times when I heard something I liked in the radio.

There is also an app called Shazam. It is very good indeed.

Posted

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Allegedly this is one of the first K2's for Poland during final trails.

Deliveries schedule:

2022 - 10

2023 - 18

2024 - 56

2025 - 96

  • 3 weeks later...
Posted
3 hours ago, urbanoid said:

Far too much. 1/3 or even 1/4 of those 500 would be enough. Ukraine is doing a lot with with 20+ M270/HIMARS launchers.

Big plans, big buys, that's why China is investing in defence like there's no tomorrow, they can find Poles at their wall any day now.

Posted

So it looks like 288 Chunmoo and 23000 missiles of various calibers, apart from HIMARS (rumors about up to 200, though I hope for less).

 

Posted

Production capability of the LM and diversification of suppliers for us. The Koreans are probably easier to negotiate about ToT and licenses.

Posted
15 hours ago, Markus Becker said:

Why both the US and the Korean one? They seem to be similar in role. Just to get the numbers? 

Both systems are fitted with TOPAZ (at some point), both are modular enough to fit a wide variety of missiles, including one another's. What Poland is buying is essentially just the interface for these missiles and associated systems. So they are buying the cheap part from different manufacturers to create diversity. This is much easier than, say, mixing US and Korean tanks, so is much more logical.

And the large number of launchers is needed to cover a vast potential front, add flexibility, and reduce time per strike mission. With 16, Ukraine may need to frequently transfer them between fronts, or periodically switch between regions with strategic targets timed in potentially distant time slots.

Also, if Russia was in any way competent, it would destroy those M142 launchers a dozen times over. Poland cannot bet on Russian incompetence in the next war.

Israel, for example, has 48 M270 MLRS. Our fronts are not as long, and Lahav MLRS are produced on top of that.

Posted (edited)
2 hours ago, Mighty_Zuk said:

Both systems are fitted with TOPAZ (at some point), both are modular enough to fit a wide variety of missiles, including one another's. What Poland is buying is essentially just the interface for these missiles and associated systems. So they are buying the cheap part from different manufacturers to create diversity. This is much easier than, say, mixing US and Korean tanks, so is much more logical.

And the large number of launchers is needed to cover a vast potential front, add flexibility, and reduce time per strike mission. With 16, Ukraine may need to frequently transfer them between fronts, or periodically switch between regions with strategic targets timed in potentially distant time slots.

Also, if Russia was in any way competent, it would destroy those M142 launchers a dozen times over. Poland cannot bet on Russian incompetence in the next war.

Israel, for example, has 48 M270 MLRS. Our fronts are not as long, and Lahav MLRS are produced on top of that.

You can shoot GMLRS from K239, but not the other way around, the US reportedly blocks such integration. Which I'm not sure is smart, if they have to shoot at Fat Kim's forces one day, USFK HIMARS/M270 crews would probably appreciate being able to use those munitions.

PS. Ukraine has a bit more, probably up to 40 now, both HIMARS and M270.

Edited by urbanoid
Posted
2 hours ago, urbanoid said:

You can shoot GMLRS from K239, but not the other way around, the US reportedly blocks such integration. Which I'm not sure is smart, if they have to shoot at Fat Kim's forces one day, USFK HIMARS/M270 crews would probably appreciate being able to use those munitions.

PS. Ukraine has a bit more, probably up to 40 now, both HIMARS and M270.

Is this confirmed and is M142 HIMARS specific?

Because the IDF runs its M270 with domestic rocket pods.

57059b4318c66706.jpg

Posted

Just because one missile system has been integrated with the M270's FCS doesn't mean that any other has been, or will be allowed. See, for example, lack of Brimstone integration with AH-64E (despite this being basically a Hellfire interface), Meteor with F-35 (heel dragging because it's a better missile than anything the US currently offers), and so on.

As an aside, I view the HIMARS and M270 reload mechanism with envious eyes.

Posted
5 hours ago, Mighty_Zuk said:

Both systems are fitted with TOPAZ (at some point), both are modular enough to fit a wide variety of missiles, including one another's. What Poland is buying is essentially just the interface for these missiles and associated systems. So they are buying the cheap part from different manufacturers to create diversity. 

Aha, but what's TOPAZ? 

Posted
3 hours ago, urbanoid said:


PS. Ukraine has a bit more, probably up to 40 now, both HIMARS and M270.

What's their own launchers? BM-30 and the variant they developed from it? On paper they look rather capable. 100+ km range, check!  Does the Ukraine lack the guided, long range missiles for them or is HIMARS just getting better PR? 

Posted
2 minutes ago, Markus Becker said:

What's their own launchers? BM-30 and the variant they developed from it? On paper they look rather capable. 100+ km range, check!  Does the Ukraine lack the guided, long range missiles for them or is HIMARS just getting better PR? 

Russia's lack of use of its own Smerch is evident, and availability of guided projectiles is likely non-existent or negligible. 

Posted
21 minutes ago, Markus Becker said:

What's their own launchers? BM-30 and the variant they developed from it? On paper they look rather capable. 100+ km range, check!  Does the Ukraine lack the guided, long range missiles for them or is HIMARS just getting better PR? 

Yes, missile stocks may be rather low. They can get 122 mm rockets for Grad/RM-70/whatever for example from us, but no 220/300 mm rockets. They have also developed their own Vilkha system, similar to BM-30, and even used it on occasion, but its numbers are low.

HIMARS/MLRS not only has built-in external support and ammo stocks, but may be far more precise than older Soviet systems.

Posted
30 minutes ago, Mighty_Zuk said:

Russia's lack of use of its own Smerch is evident...

Check again, plenty of vids/pics of use of guided ammo for that one.

Posted
48 minutes ago, urbanoid said:

Yes, missile stocks may be rather low. They can get 122 mm rockets for Grad/RM-70/whatever for example from us, but no 220/300 mm rockets. They have also developed their own Vilkha system, similar to BM-30, and even used it on occasion, but its numbers are low.

HIMARS/MLRS not only has built-in external support and ammo stocks, but may be far more precise than older Soviet systems.

"Us" is Poland or CR/SR I presume. 

With regard to the older Soviet systems it is my impression that the newer missiles are the ones with a longer range and GPS/GLONASS. 

Maybe it's not a simple modification and the Ukraine never got to make many before February? 

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