Polish Armoured Vehicles And Their Modernizations.

[Damian]

1 hour ago, Sherman said:

Absolutely. Almost 400 M1, 180 K2, 140 Leo 2PL. All first line kit.

To be more precise, 250 M1A2SEPv3 (built as completely new), 116 M1A1SA (to be upgraded to M1A2SEPv3 standard at later date), 180 K2, 105 Leopard 2A5 and 142 Leopard 2A4/Leopard 2PL.

[Manic Moran]

This may be a stupid question, but before signing the contract for K2, did Poland conduct any trials? I mean, we've all seen the K2NO bouncing around up North, but just how did Poland decide K2 was for it in the first place? Or was it purely a matter of ability for domestic technology transfer?

[Damian]

6 hours ago, Manic Moran said:

This may be a stupid question, but before signing the contract for K2, did Poland conduct any trials? I mean, we've all seen the K2NO bouncing around up North, but just how did Poland decide K2 was for it in the first place? Or was it purely a matter of ability for domestic technology transfer?

No tests were conducted in Poland, but there was a Polish Army delegation in Korea that got through some tests with K2.

With M1 it was easier as US Army was is present in Poland for years now and again, our delegations were in US many times.

I might ask more next week at MSPO expo. But no promises I get the answer.

[Huba]

Krabs in Kharkiv offensive:

[txtree99]

 

[shep854]

Gads! I applaud Poland for being willing to stand up for themselves, but how are they paying for the goodies, not to mention sustaining them??

[Tantalwz88]

It's just political bs nothing will come from it, except few more votes in the upcoming election next year.

[Damian]

And if they gonna pay, and buy these, you will admitt you was wrong? 

[Tantalwz88]

Yes, but the number is far reach out of their minds, no money no pilots no logistics for this amount of AH-64E. My mind is on 32 of those, if we can afford it.

[Mighty_Zuk]

Poland was only able to sustain a smaller army before because it invested less money than is necessary. It can sustain more now, because it invests more.

All this reportedly comes from a spending hike to up to 5% of GDP, which terrifies the European, but by no means is an obstacle to a strong and stable economy.

[Tantalwz88]

12 minutes ago, Mighty_Zuk said:

All this reportedly comes from a spending hike to up to 5% of GDP, which terrifies the European, but by no means is an obstacle to a strong and stable economy.

That's the the clou, we don't have strong and stable economy right now, Inflation is 16 percent with a possibility to grow up to 20 percent next year.

[sunday]

1 hour ago, Tantalwz88 said:

That's the the clou, we don't have strong and stable economy right now, Inflation is 16 percent with a possibility to grow up to 20 percent next year.

Also, there is the threat of the EU withholding some funds.

https://www.reuters.com/world/europe/poland-warns-repercussions-if-brussels-keeps-blocking-funds-2022-08-09/

Perhaps Poland could ask US some grants or non-payable loans to pay for her military spending, like some other country.

[Tantalwz88]

32 minutes ago, sunday said:

Perhaps Poland could ask US some grants or non-payable loans to pay for her military spending, like some other country.

I doubt it, we are not Israel.

[Damian]

We will see. Even 32 AH-64E's will be significant increase in capability.

[Mighty_Zuk]

11 hours ago, Tantalwz88 said:

I doubt it, we are not Israel.

He was referring to Afghanistan.

[Sherman]

96 Apaches will cost somewhere upwards of 13 Billion U.S. but one needs to put the current Polish shopping spree in perspective.  Look what is happening to a neighboring state, so what price can you put on deterrence?

Still, 96 Apaches and 500 HIMARS seems a stretch both fiscally and logistically. Maybe half that amount makes more sense. I scratched my head about the original order for 20 HIMARS, I thought why bother?

[urbanoid]

32 minutes ago, Sherman said:

96 Apaches will cost somewhere upwards of 13 Billion U.S. but one needs to put the current Polish shopping spree in perspective.  Look what is happening to a neighboring state, so what price can you put on deterrence?

Still, 96 Apaches and 500 HIMARS seems a stretch both fiscally and logistically. Maybe half that amount makes more sense. I scratched my head about the original order for 20 HIMARS, I thought why bother?

1/3 of both would make sense.

As for 20 HIMARS, that's what the Ukrainians currently have (a mix of HIMARS and MLRS) and we could see the effects were rather substantial.

[Tantalwz88]

If we will get 150 HiMARS systems that will be a lot, rest of the "500" could be K239 Chunmoo but then we could gradually withdrawn WR-40 Langusta systems and don't buy "Langusta M" which we will soon ™.

[Huba]

Russian telegram notices our recent purchases (not only of AFVs). Looks like we'll soon be ready to invade Ukraine on Washington's orders:

Quote

Rybar
forwarded from 
Kramnik's cat and cat
Assessing the Polish mega-contracts with South Korea for K2 tanks (180 + 820 units) and K9 self-propelled guns (212 units), we can say this.

First, taking into account existing agreements with the US and European manufacturers, including contracts for Patriot, F-35, helicopters, Korean FA-50 light fighters / IS and others, the total Polish order book jumps to about $ 16 billion, from prospects for growth to 30. Prospects are prospects, we will evaluate them later, but with the volume of arms imports already signed, which the Poles previously had within 500 million dollars a year, can soar by the middle of the decade to 2-3 billion, which will immediately throw Poland out of the fourth dozens of the largest arms buyers in the world in the first place, where European countries have not been for a long time.

Secondly, the European arms market as a whole will change radically - in the regional division of SIPRI, Europe (the region as a whole) in the five-year period 2016-2020 was in third place, taking 12% of world arms imports, after Asia and Oceania (42%) and the Middle East (33%). (The remaining 13% of imports are from Africa and the Americas).

There are several questions for this perspective.

A) How will the crisis affect, and will certain major contracts begin to fall out? In the case of Poland, it seems that the stability of its contracts will be determined by the stability of the States themselves in the first place - Warsaw is seriously being made the main ally on the continent, and money will be given - both for American purchases, and for Korean, and for its own Polish military industry.

South Korea receives the first one-time really large contract, one of those with which exporters of the 1st rank do not fill their portfolios too often. There may be various technical problems (for K2, for which the Poles are the main export customer in the first place), and problems of technology transfer, and a difficult attitude on the part of European colleagues/competitors, including those that form part of the cooperation for the Koreans. Given the inevitable economic problems, I wonder what will be the shifts to the right?

What does Ukraine have to do with it? You know, almost nothing. The pumping of Poland into the role of His own Washington Atrocity of the battle mouse Alari will take place regardless of whether our Ukraine is eaten or broken off. If they eat it, then maybe the volume of purchases will turn out to be more impressive - considering that Poland, quite possibly, will have to occupy some part of the territory of Ukraine.

... In general, we have not started yesterday the process of the Polish armed forces entering a fundamentally different league, with the number of tanks a multiple of that of the Germans (if they themselves do not urgently accelerate), fifth-generation fighters and other sets. It is clear that this process is primarily politically motivated, the Polish economy, in principle, will not pull the armed forces of this scale on their own, so the whole question is how long the project is designed and what are its desired goals.

 

[shep854]

1 hour ago, Huba said:

Russian telegram notices our recent purchases (not only of AFVs). Looks like we'll soon be ready to invade Ukraine on Washington's orders:

 

Back to Moscow??

[Perun]

One Cold war question. How much of Poland produced 2S1 was domestic and how much was imported?

[Huba]

52 minutes ago, Perun said:

One Cold war question. How much of Poland produced 2S1 was domestic and how much was imported?

According to this article, only initial 12 were bought directly from USSR, the rest was produced locally. It took only 10 years to set up domestic production though

Krabs rocking it in Kharkiv oblast:

 

[Perun]

52 minutes ago, Huba said:

According to this article, only initial 12 were bought directly from USSR, the rest was produced locally. It took only 10 years to set up domestic production though

Krabs rocking it in Kharkiv oblast:

 

Did Poland also produced howitzer for 2S1 and if yes where

[urbanoid]

1 minute ago, Perun said:

Did Poland also produced howitzer for 2S1 and if yes where

In HSW (Huta Stalowa Wola), where today Krab is produced.

[Perun]

Thanks both of you