Polish Armoured Vehicles And Their Modernizations.

[Damian]

First M1A2SEPv2's for Polish Army traning center for crew delivered.
 

Second important information, MoD said, that at some point, 116 M1A1SA's we bought, will be upgraded to M1A2SEPv3 standard.

Photos are by Z Obiektywem Obok Munduru team.

Edited July 19, 2022 by Damian

[Perun]

...Hyundai Rotem is talking with Poland to supply 180 K2 tanks (worth 3 trillion KRW, or $2.3 billion) by 2024, and the country may additionally purchase 400 K2 tanks by 2030, worth 8 trillion KRW, or $6.1 billion. KAI is discussing selling 48 light attack aircraft FA50 for 3.4 trillion KRW, or $2.6 billion. Poland also plans to purchase 670 K9 self-propelled artilleries that worth 4-5 trillion KRW, or $3 billion to $3.8 billion.

https://www.defensenews.com/global/europe/2022/07/21/south-korean-officials-say-major-sale-of-weapons-to-poland-is-imminent/

[Perun]

...Poland’s deputy prime minister confirmed that the country would buy 48 FA-50 light combat aircraft as well as 180 K2 tanks from South Korea.

https://defbrief.com/2022/07/22/poland-buying-k2-tanks-fa-50-light-fighters-from-south-korea/

[Damian]

Phase 1 = ~180 K2's from Republic of Korea. Phase 2 = probably ~400 K2PL's.

This is probably the plan. It is also officialy confirmed by MoD, all T-72's, PT-91's and Leopard 2's will be withdrawn from service, replaced by 366 M1A2SEPv3's (116 upgraded M1A1SA's and 250 new built M1A2SEPv3's) and 580 K2/K2PL. Also worth to mention, MoD might procure some additional M1's in future if there will be such need.

[Damian]

Ok, an update, because this is huge! Informations I will provide below, is from Armaments Agency spokesman Col. Krzysztof Płatek. Polish MoD plans:
 

MBT's:

- 116 M1A1SA to be upgraded to M1A2SEPv3.

- 250 new built M1A2SEPv3.

- 180 K2 to be upgraded to K2PL.

- 820 K2PL produced in RoK and Poland.

- K3PL a future MBT developed in cooperation between Poland and Republic of Korea.

- T-72's, PT-91's and Leopard 2's will be completely withdrawn from service.

IFV's:

- 1000-1400 Borsuk IFV.

- Heavy IFV based on AS21 Redback, total numbers to be procured unknown at this moment.

155mm SPH's:

- 144 AHS Krab.

- 48 K9A1 to be upgraded in future to K9PL.

- 642 K9PL based on K9A2.

- Codevelopment between Poland and Republic of Korea for next generation 155mm SPH.

MLRS:

- Polish MoD is interested in K239 Chunmoo to supplement procurement of M142 HIMARS and WR-40 Langusta-2.

[shep854]

That's going to add up to quite a bill!  

[Stuart Galbraith]

It is, but when you compare it to what it cost Poland to indequately prepare for WW2, I can entirely get where they are coming from.

[Damian]

2 hours ago, Stuart Galbraith said:

It is, but when you compare it to what it cost Poland to indequately prepare for WW2, I can entirely get where they are coming from.

Also, altough tragic situation of this war, this gives us opportunity to completely replace ex soviet weapon systems, because there is good political mood for such operation.

[Mighty_Zuk]

Based Poland being the only European country taking its security seriously.

Let's just hope the status quo of at least 2 different MBTs isn't maintained for long. And perhaps also that commonality between AS21 and Borsuk can be made. The turret is one logical point for commonality.

Edited July 25, 2022 by Mighty_Zuk

[Damian]

47 minutes ago, Mighty_Zuk said:

Based Poland being the only European country taking its security seriously.

Let's just hope the status quo of at least 2 different MBTs isn't maintained for long. And perhaps also that commonality between AS21 and Borsuk can be made. The turret is one logical point for commonality.

Two MBT types will be used for many decades.

As for commonality, AS21 uses common subsystems with Krab, K9, K9PL. Borsuk will use common subsystems with some other vehicles.

[Laurelix]

According to Krzysztof Płatek (Polish spokesman of the Armament Agency)


Anyways....
PT-91 Twardy > T-72B3

[Hal]

Okay, trying to keep up with all the changes (MBTs only)... Let me know what I get wrong...

M1A1 SA - 116 to be delivered soon (within a year?) - Eventually to be upgraded to M1A2sepV3 standard

M1A2sepv3 - 250 ordered (a few delivered already for training) - order will be completed within 2-3 years

K2 - 180 ordered (officially official?) - only slightly modified from Korean standard K2 - order to be completed in 3 years(approx) - eventually to be upgraded to K2PL standard

K2PL - 800+ built in Poland (timing unknown) - extensively modified from Korean standard K2

 

 

Existing MBTs to be removed from service (reserves or disposed of) in this order (over some extended period of time)

200+ T-72s to Ukraine - done

any remaining T-72s or upgraded versions

PT-91 (3? versions)

Leo2A4

Leo2A5

Leo2PL

 

[Damian]

7 hours ago, Hal said:

Okay, trying to keep up with all the changes (MBTs only)... Let me know what I get wrong...

M1A1 SA - 116 to be delivered soon (within a year?) - Eventually to be upgraded to M1A2sepV3 standard

M1A2sepv3 - 250 ordered (a few delivered already for training) - order will be completed within 2-3 years

K2 - 180 ordered (officially official?) - only slightly modified from Korean standard K2 - order to be completed in 3 years(approx) - eventually to be upgraded to K2PL standard

K2PL - 800+ built in Poland (timing unknown) - extensively modified from Korean standard K2

 

 

Existing MBTs to be removed from service (reserves or disposed of) in this order (over some extended period of time)

200+ T-72s to Ukraine - done

any remaining T-72s or upgraded versions

PT-91 (3? versions)

Leo2A4

Leo2A5

Leo2PL

 

M1A1SA - 2023-2024, upgrade to M1A2SEPv3 at later date.

M1A2SEPv3 - 2024/2025-2026.

K2 - 2022-2023.

K2PL - 2026-?

[Hellfish6]

It's a really impressive investment, and really smart to go for co-production and other offsets. I'm happy to see ROK defense industries stepping out onto the world stage in a big way. I hope this gets fulfilled and sets the standard for other countries in Europe who need to shake off some cobwebs. If Ukraine survives the present conflict they might do well to follow Poland's lead and, to the extent that they can, start rearmament with some co-production deals that aim for commonality with their closest friends. 

[Damian]

I can confirm that tommorow, this is 27.07.2022 in Ministry of Defence in Warsaw, at around 9:30 local time, Minister of Defence Mariusz Błaszczak will sign contract with Republic of Korea, for K2/K2PL tanks, K9/K9PL self propelled howitzers and FA-50/FA-50PL jets.

[Perun]

Was there mentioned any timeline or start date

[Rick]

Out of curiosity, how is Poland paying for this? How due Poland and Germany get along now?

[Mighty_Zuk]

4 minutes ago, Rick said:

Out of curiosity, how is Poland paying for this? How due Poland and Germany get along now?

Increasing defense budget to 5% of GDP.

Does this answer your question? If not, can you be more clear?

[Damian]

33 minutes ago, Rick said:

Out of curiosity, how is Poland paying for this? How due Poland and Germany get along now?

Increasing GDP % for defense, also obligations, loans etc. We are not so poor you know, Poland is much more rich than it was. Besides, considering what happend to Ukraine, I rather pay debts, than have another Bucha somewhere in Poland.

42 minutes ago, Perun said:

Was there mentioned any timeline or start date

M1A1SA - 2023-2024, upgrade to M1A2SEPv3 at later date.

M1A2SEPv3 - 2024/2025-2026.

K2 - 2022-2023.

K2PL - 2026-?

Edited July 26, 2022 by Damian

[Rick]

49 minutes ago, Mighty_Zuk said:

Increasing defense budget to 5% of GDP.

Does this answer your question? If not, can you be more clear?

Got it. Out of curiosity, any military agreements between Israel and Poland.?

[Mighty_Zuk]

1 hour ago, Rick said:

Got it. Out of curiosity, any military agreements between Israel and Poland.?

Israel and Poland are currently not on best terms due to political disputes about holocaust reparations, and we can see that taking effect for example in the recent selection of the Brimstone over the Spike NLOS.

But Israel only avoids overt military aid to Ukraine due to an agreement with Russia about involvement in the middle east. The deal does not include Poland and other countries, and Israel sells military hardware to Poland as usual. 

Poland is set to buy large numbers of air defense interceptors from Israel, that much is known.

Who knows, Maybe we could have seen 1,000 Merkavas and Namers ordered by Poland if the Israeli government wasn't stupid enough to keep the IP in a barely responsive government agency.

Edited July 26, 2022 by Mighty_Zuk

[Damian]

3 hours ago, Mighty_Zuk said:

Israel and Poland are currently not on best terms due to political disputes about holocaust reparations, and we can see that taking effect for example in the recent selection of the Brimstone over the Spike NLOS.

But Israel only avoids overt military aid to Ukraine due to an agreement with Russia about involvement in the middle east. The deal does not include Poland and other countries, and Israel sells military hardware to Poland as usual. 

Poland is set to buy large numbers of air defense interceptors from Israel, that much is known.

Who knows, Maybe we could have seen 1,000 Merkavas and Namers ordered by Poland if the Israeli government wasn't stupid enough to keep the IP in a barely responsive government agency.

What interceptors? You mean Sky Ceptor? If so, it won't happen, decision was made that We will use only PAC-3MSE and CAMM, CAMM-ER and new missile based on CAMM, let's call it CAMM-LR that will be low cost missile used along PAC-3MSE.

We also want to replace Spike-LR1/LR2 at some point, perhaps with domestic Moskit ATGM.

[Mighty_Zuk]

Well then I guess the diplomatic relations are currently really bad. That's a shame. With Poland investing in defense now, it became the most like-minded nation in Europe for Israel.

 

Anyway, only sort of visual model I saw for the K2PL seemed to incorporate Trophy. Would that also be replaced eventually with KAPS? Because I have a hard time seeing how KAPS becomes ready in time. Some APS just seem to be forever in a limbo.

[Perun]

6 hours ago, Damian said:

Increasing GDP % for defense, also obligations, loans etc. We are not so poor you know, Poland is much more rich than it was. Besides, considering what happend to Ukraine, I rather pay debts, than have another Bucha somewhere in Poland.

M1A1SA - 2023-2024, upgrade to M1A2SEPv3 at later date.

M1A2SEPv3 - 2024/2025-2026.

K2 - 2022-2023.

K2PL - 2026-?

Thanks mate

[Damian]

1 hour ago, Mighty_Zuk said:

Well then I guess the diplomatic relations are currently really bad. That's a shame. With Poland investing in defense now, it became the most like-minded nation in Europe for Israel.

 

Anyway, only sort of visual model I saw for the K2PL seemed to incorporate Trophy. Would that also be replaced eventually with KAPS? Because I have a hard time seeing how KAPS becomes ready in time. Some APS just seem to be forever in a limbo.

It is not confirmed yet by 100%, but it seems K2 and K2PL will use KAPS. However it seems also APS for our M1's is in the works, probably Trophy HV, at least Army was very keen to get Trophy HV for our M1A2SEPv3's.