Polish Armoured Vehicles And Their Modernizations.

[urbanoid]

25 minutes ago, Damian said:

 

Fresh batch of news. Today MoD signed contract with HSW for first large batch of 341 ZSSW-30 unmanned turrets. These turrets will be used on Rosomak 8x8 APC/IFV. First 70 turrets should be delivered next year. ZSSW-30 is armed with 30mm Mk44S, 7.62mm UKM-2000C and 2x ATGM launcher.

All 300+ for Rosomaks or both for Rosomak and Borsuk?

[Damian]

13 minutes ago, urbanoid said:

All 300+ for Rosomaks or both for Rosomak and Borsuk?

300+ for Rosomak only. Turrets for Borsuk will be ordered with Borsuk itself most likely.

[Damian]

PGZ and Honeywell signed memorandum to create service and logistic centers in Poland for Honeywell products, including AGT1500 gas turbines for M1A2SEPv3's.

[Huba]

More rumors about additional M1s to backfill for T-72/ PT-91s

 

[urbanoid]

Nice, it would pretty much mean additional 4 tank battalions for Ukraine.

[Helmutkohl]

how capable are the PT-91s (especially those from Poland to UKR)

compared to the other T-72 variants, such as those currently being used in this war? (armor, countermeasures, etc)?

[Damian]

2 hours ago, Helmutkohl said:

how capable are the PT-91s (especially those from Poland to UKR)

compared to the other T-72 variants, such as those currently being used in this war? (armor, countermeasures, etc)?

PT-91 base armor is identical to T-72A/T-72M1, however it's augumented by ERAWA-1 and ERAWA-2 ERA, ERAWA-1 can reduce single warhead shaped charge penetration by 83-94%, ERAWA-2 can reduce single warhead shaped charge penetration by 95% and tandem warhead by ~50%, ERAWA-2 also gives some protection vs older APFSDS . PT-91 also uses SSP-1 Obra-3 laser warning receivers connected to 81mm WPD-1 Tellur smoke granade launchers.

PT-91 uses SKO-1T Drawa-1T fire control system with PCD day sight and a PCT thermal sight, there are two thermal cameras used in PCT sight, older one being Elbit TES camera, or newer PCO KLW-1 Asteria camera.

When it comes to mobility, all PT-91's uses upgraded V-46-6 diesel, designated S-12U, which is uprated to 850HP.

 

[seahawk]

The thermal sights would make them a force to be reckoned with on the battlefield in the Ukraine.

[Damian]

Some old videos of PT-91's and WZT-3. Sorry for cringe music. 🙃

And some videos of upgraded PT-91M2.

 

[Huba]

1 hour ago, seahawk said:

The thermal sights would make them a force to be reckoned with on the battlefield in the Ukraine.

The uniformity of the fleet is also something Ukrainians would probably welcome, given the unmanagable mix of types and versions they are operating. There was a contract signed of major overhauls/ maintenance recently, and work on that is progressing hastily, on average those tanks should be in great technical condition, compared to UA fleet.

@Damian wow those videos are ancient  It's gonna be a bit sad to see these old warhorses go, but what an end to their careers will they have...

[Damian]

12 minutes ago, Huba said:

@Damian wow those videos are ancient  It's gonna be a bit sad to see these old warhorses go, but what an end to their careers will they have...

Pity so little is released from ZMBŁ archives.

[alejandro_]

Quote

Nice, it would pretty much mean additional 4 tank battalions for Ukraine.

If the deal goes through, is it the end of T-72/PT-91 in Poland or more are available?

[Damian]

7 minutes ago, alejandro_ said:

If the deal goes through, is it the end of T-72/PT-91 in Poland or more are available?

If this is truth, then yes. We already gave Ukraine majority of working T-72's. And we have only 233 PT-91's.

[alejandro_]

2 minutes ago, Damian said:

If this is truth, then yes. We already gave Ukraine majority of working T-72's. And we have only 233 PT-91's.

Thanks, next stop for PT-91s would be Malaysia then!

[Huba]

44 minutes ago, Damian said:

If this is truth, then yes. We already gave Ukraine majority of working T-72's. And we have only 233 PT-91's.

Oh, that's one thing I did not consider. I bet that all the remaining T-72s that we still have are being crazily worked on to revive as many as possible. There still should be like 200 or something like that? Their average state would be abysmal, but given the few months we had maybe at least some can be put in running order again...

[Damian]

33 minutes ago, Huba said:

Oh, that's one thing I did not consider. I bet that all the remaining T-72s that we still have are being crazily worked on to revive as many as possible. There still should be like 200 or something like that? Their average state would be abysmal, but given the few months we had maybe at least some can be put in running order again...

I have no knowledge if anything is being done with these vehicles. In general Poland had something around ~500+ T-72's of all variants.

[Huba]

7 minutes ago, Damian said:

I have no knowledge if anything is being done with these vehicles. In general Poland had something around ~500+ T-72's of all variants.

Me neither, just thinking out loud. Those might as well serve as the spare parts pool, still useful. I'll be very happy to read the whole story of our AFVs in war in Ukraine sometimes in the future.

[bojan]

4 hours ago, seahawk said:

The thermal sights would make them a force to be reckoned with on the battlefield in the Ukraine.

T-72M1R that Poles has sent already have thermals, as do some of the modernized T-64BVs.

On the Russian side T-72B3, T-80BVM, T-80UE-1, T-90s all have thermals.

Edited July 11, 2022 by bojan

[seahawk]

But it would be the first time the Ukrainians get such a tank in large numbers.

[bojan]

Of the modernized 64BVs they had at least 100 before 24.2. Plus some T-80BVs, but those were few.

How many T-72M1R were delivered? I don't think it was an insignificant number?

Edited July 11, 2022 by bojan

[Damian]

29 minutes ago, bojan said:

Of the modernized 64BVs they had at least 100 before 24.2. Plus some T-80BVs, but those were few.

How many T-72M1R were delivered? I don't think it was an insignificant number?

Around 80-90? Sorry I am unable to check it right now.

[Huba]

30 minutes ago, bojan said:

Of the modernized 64BVs they had at least 100 before 24.2. Plus some T-80BVs, but those were few.

How many T-72M1R were delivered? I don't think it was an insignificant number?

It is not clear how many were modernized before we shipped everything away. The contract signed in 2019 for a total of 318 vehicles, but it was to be finished in 2025. AFAIK up to a 100 were delivered.

Edited July 11, 2022 by Huba

[alejandro_]

34 minutes ago, bojan said:

Of the modernized 64BVs they had at least 100 before 24.2. Plus some T-80BVs, but those were few.

How many T-72M1R were delivered? I don't think it was an insignificant number?

Regarding T-80BVs, 123 T-80B and 25 T-80BV were inherited in 1992. VDV were given 60, and naval infantry 31. The other 60 should have been delivered to the Army if process completed/financed.
 

[DB]

Saw speculation today (in Tusa's Defence Analysis) that one reason for not going for German anything is the observed reluctance to support Ukraine - if you're relying on product support in a time of conflict, you can't afford to have your supplier start shuffling their feet and delaying things.

If that's been a consideration, it would explain one or two other decisions, too.

[Damian]

1 hour ago, DB said:

Saw speculation today (in Tusa's Defence Analysis) that one reason for not going for German anything is the observed reluctance to support Ukraine - if you're relying on product support in a time of conflict, you can't afford to have your supplier start shuffling their feet and delaying things.

If that's been a consideration, it would explain one or two other decisions, too.

This is one of many reasons why Poland aims to withdraw Leopard 2's from service in future, and in general to stop using any major German made weapon system.

But there is more reasons. For example. Polish Army have a new requirement for all new MBT's it will procure as a long term solution. Such vehicles need to have entire ammunition stored in isolated ammo magazines with blow off panels. Leopard 2 obviously does not meet this requirement.