Polish Armoured Vehicles And Their Modernizations.

[urbanoid]

First Leo2A4 after F6 overhaul in ZM Bumar-Labedy:

https://www.facebook.com/897255913663004/videos/974862639235664/?__mref=message_bubble

 

 

One of the powerpacks that will undergo an overhaul:

 

 

 

 

https://www.facebook.com/897255913663004/photos/pcb.974847435903851/974835652571696/?type=3&theater

[bojan]

If i am not wrong we bought license from France for the Barrels.Edit - Barrels were made by Aubert & Duval and Nexter.

 

They only finalize them I am pretty sure that barrel blanks are imported from Germany.

[Tantalwz88]

 

If i am not wrong we bought license from France for the Barrels.Edit - Barrels were made by Aubert & Duval and Nexter.

 

They only finalize them I am pretty sure that barrel blanks are imported from Germany.

 

Thx for the info.Edit i found a video interview from a former president of Huta Stalowa Wola Krzysztof Trofiniak ,that the blank barrels were or will be bought from Aubert & Duval.

 

Edited February 18, 2016 by Tantalwz88

[Simon Tan]

Polish Panzer Overhaul....this week.....T-72!

[urbanoid]

Nah, maybe next week.

 

PS. It's nothing certain for now, but it's possible that we will get the license for DM63.

[Tantalwz88]

Nah, maybe next week.

 

PS. It's nothing certain for now, but it's possible that we will get the license for DM63.

Or M829A3 from ATK ,both firms want to have part of the cake .

[urbanoid]

Yeah, let'em fight.

[Tantalwz88]

Yeah, let'em fight.

 

Edited February 19, 2016 by Tantalwz88

[urbanoid]

I'm all for picking a better offer - not even financially, I'm more worried about strings attached. It'd be nice to make 125 ammo for PT-91 based on acquired technology, to be able to export it etc.

[Panzermann]

 

 

Nah, maybe next week.

 

PS. It's nothing certain for now, but it's possible that we will get the license for DM63.

Or M829A3 from ATK ,both firms want to have part of the cake .

No french or israeli offers?

[urbanoid]

There may be some, for now ze Germans said that it wouldn't be a problem if we wanted to get the license for DM63. Apparently we're also discusing things with ATK. Nobody says that Frogz and Jooz (or others) cannot give an offer.

[QOHC32]

Rheinmetall signed the deal with Bumar Łabędy for the modernisation of Leo2A4 for Polish land forces.First Leopard 2PL should be ready in march of 2018 ,tanks will be able to use DM63 and DM11 programmable ammo.

 

http://www.altair.com.pl/news/view?news_id=18711

 

- PERI R-17A3 and EMES-15 will use Polish PCO S.A. KLW-1 Asteria third gen thermal camera.

- Rheinmetall is ready to certificate polish made 120mm ammo and if needed to sell the license for DM63 and DM11 to Poland.

- Rh will also offer the 120mm Light Low Recoil L47 cannon for the future fire support vehicle made in Obrum.

 

Damian will write the rest ,his english is better than mine .

So, till now PERI R-17A3 doesn't have a night channel ? And you still use WBG-X as gunner's night vision?

[methos]

So, till now PERI R-17A3 doesn't have a night channel ? And you still use WBG-X as gunner's night vision?

PERI R17A3 does have a night vision channel, but the Polish version will simply utilize a different thermal imager.

[Panzermann]

 

 

Rheinmetall signed the deal with Bumar Łabędy for the modernisation of Leo2A4 for Polish land forces.First Leopard 2PL should be ready in march of 2018 ,tanks will be able to use DM63 and DM11 programmable ammo.

 

http://www.altair.com.pl/news/view?news_id=18711

 

- PERI R-17A3 and EMES-15 will use Polish PCO S.A. KLW-1 Asteria third gen thermal camera.

- Rheinmetall is ready to certificate polish made 120mm ammo and if needed to sell the license for DM63 and DM11 to Poland.

- Rh will also offer the 120mm Light Low Recoil L47 cannon for the future fire support vehicle made in Obrum.

 

Damian will write the rest ,his english is better than mine .

So, till now PERI R-17A3 doesn't have a night channel ? And you still use WBG-X as gunner's night vision?

No.

 

PERI-R17 (A1) is the periscope of the Leopard 2 up to and including A4. Day channel only. Mounted in front right of the TC hatch.

 

pic: www.portierramaryaire.com/imagenes/Leopard_2A4_PERI_R-17A1.htm

 

PERI-R17 A2 is the one fitted to A5 and A6 with Attica thermal imaging module (TIM). Behind the hatches.

 

www.airbusds-optronics.com/web/guest/peri_r17_a1_a2_rtwl.html

 

PERI RTWL ist the new one fitted on the A7. with enw thermal also fitted to Puma IFV. I guess this is to be named PERI-R 17 A3.

 

edit: and as methis says, the poles are going to put their own own thermal in.

Edited February 20, 2016 by Panzermann

[QOHC32]

So that means that Polish are going to use the PERI R17A3 instead of the original PERI R17A1 in their modernization program of the Leo-2A4 fleet and incorporate their thermal camera....

[Panzermann]

So that means that Polish are going to use the PERI R17A3 instead of the original PERI R17A1 in their modernization program of the Leo-2A4 fleet and incorporate their thermal camera....

Bingo.

[QOHC32]

Thank you Panzermann.That's great news if they manage to do the modernization with a budget of almost a million euros per vehicle.

[urbanoid]

You won't upgrade much for EUR 1 million. The contract is for IIRC PLN 2.4 billion (EUR 600 mln), for 128 tanks. Do the math.

[Damian]

This is why hulls will not receive armor upgrade, because it would increase weight and costs due to the need to upgrade suspension... it does not mean however that at some point in the future such upgrade won't happen.

[methos]

PERI RTWL ist the new one fitted on the A7. with enw thermal also fitted to Puma IFV. I guess this is to be named PERI-R 17 A3.

The PERI R17A3 is just an A2 fitted with new thermal imager. The RTWL is not being used on the Leopard 2A7, it has only been used on the prototypes of the 2A7+.

[Panzermann]

 

PERI RTWL ist the new one fitted on the A7. with enw thermal also fitted to Puma IFV. I guess this is to be named PERI-R 17 A3.

The PERI R17A3 is just an A2 fitted with new thermal imager. The RTWL is not being used on the Leopard 2A7, it has only been used on the prototypes of the 2A7+.

Thanks for the correction. I must have mixed the industry proposal 2 A7+ with the official model.

[QOHC32]

http://www.defence24.com/312490,leopard-2pl-programme-showcased-modernization-package-for-the-polish-main-battle-tanks

[Damian]

Just as a matter of interest, how many tanks are there in a Polish tank battalion these days? Ive seen sources saying it might be as many as 58?

 

Yep it's 58 tanks, but it will also depend on Brigade.

 

For example 10th and 34th Armored Cavalry Brigades using Leopard 2A4's and Leopard 2A5's have each two tank battalions, so 2 x 58 = 116 tanks per brigade so in line service there is 232 Leopard 2's and there is 15 tanks in reserve and in Leopard tank school + 2 driver training tanks codenamed in Poland Leopard 2NJ.

 

Similiar is with 9th Armored Cavalry Brigade but they have 116 PT-91 tanks in two tank battalions.

 

But for example 1st Armored Brigade (de facto Mechanized Brigade) have only 1 tank battalion with 58 PT-91's.

 

Here is the newest structure of ground forces.

 

[Damian]

Thats very helpful, thank you. So 58 tanks per battalion is the standard. What about Mechanised and motorised battalions, do they follow the old Soviet model still, or have they refitted those as well?

 

Its pretty frustrating finding any TOE listings for polish forces. About the only luck I had was with Shipbucket, and they rarely seem to go above companies.

 

It's more or less different than old soviet standards simply because armed forces in terms of quantity was reduced, so changes in organization were necessary.

 

For example when you look at the table, there are listed motorized infantry battalions, but in fact they are mechanized because their primary vehicle, KTO Rosomak, despite it's designation code KTO which is Kołowy Transporter Opancerzony - Wheeled Armored Personell Carrier, in reality it's just wheeled infantry fighting vehicle, and it's used that way.

 

I can recommend you this channel:

 

https://www.youtube.com/user/DefenceJournalist/videos

 

But it is in Polish, tough lot's of usefull informations and some critical view on the situation. For example here author talks about placement of units.

 

 

And here something about structures of the ground forces.

 

 

But then again it's in Polish so might be problematic to understand for you.

 

PS. And yes, in mechanized battalion there are 58 BMP-1's, hopefully soon to be replaced by new IFV.

Edited February 23, 2016 by Damian

[Damian]

On paper it might look impressive Stuart, but the problem is in equipment, majority of equipment is old, and badly needs replacement. Besides this, you need to remember that not all battalions are fully manned, it is changing yes, and people want to serve in army, heck next month I go to my first excercises rotation within national reserve forces. My specialization will be radiooperator.

 

But still at least untill all units will be fully operational, we will have lots of problems, and then there is also armed forces technical modernization, that old soviet stuff really needs to be replaced.

 

Also there are territorial defense forces created, MoD says they want to create at least 3 brigades in the east till the end of this year, we gonna see how successfull these plans will be, but one is sure, they can't complain about lack of volunteers.