Polish Armoured Vehicles And Their Modernizations.

[Damian]

I wonder if this will be only a Revolution upgrade, or they actually gonna do it per original Polish Army requirements, which also means replacement of base armor, and turrets/hulls rebuilds per KWS-2 upgrade.

[Tantalwz88]

Who knows ,it could be a completely different modernisation than MBT Revolution.

[zaarin7]

Thanks for posting that Ken. Really reminded me of the bigger Soviet mortars from W W II. What were the tow vehicles, a modern jeep type thing?

[Damian]

Today at 3 PM Polish MoD, PGZ and Rhinemetall will sign a deal for 142 Leopard 2A4 tanks modernization, perhaps they will also reveal a bit about final configuration of the modernization package. I will inform you guys.

[EchoFiveMike]

Thanks for posting that Ken. Really reminded me of the bigger Soviet mortars from W W II. What were the tow vehicles, a modern jeep type thing?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Growler_(vehicle)

 

The entire vehicle program appears to be quite the cluster-fuck, although to be fair, it was probably doomed from the word go, being associated with the V-22 atrocity. S/F.....Ken M

[Panzermann]

For what is supposed to be a simple 4×4 it is quite expensive. "Internally Transportable Vehicle" is telling. But then the USMC is wedded to the V-22.

[shep854]

 

 

 

Oh sorry, my fault, yes it is a smoothbore as far as I know. At least looking down the barrel I do not see any rifling.

Miscommunication happens.

 

 

Well the Dragon Fire mortar is claimed to be able to shoot both types, but I find that hard to believe.

The USMC 120mm rifled M327, aka French R2M shoots 120mm fin stab rounds just fine. Makes it handy when raiding US Army ASP's. S/F.....Ken M

Marines' 11th Commandment: 'Thou Shalt Steal From The Army'

[Tantalwz88]

So ladies and gentleman we are getting whats looks like a full MTB Revolution+DM63,DM11 and PELE.Price will 2,4 bill złotych for 128 vehicles+14 as option after 2021=4,5 mil Euro for a vehicle.Renovation costs not in todays contract.

 

https://twitter.com/mon_pl/status/681489210172411904

 

Podpisanie umowy pomiędzy #PGZ S.A., Inspektoratem Uzbr. i Zakładami Mech. Bumar-Łabędy S.A. #modernizacja #Leopard

 

Edited December 28, 2015 by Tantalwz88

[Damian]

Ok what we know about Leopard 2's upgrade right now? It won't be neither Evolution or Revolution package, tough it will use some parts of it like AMAP armor, made on license in Poland.

Ok 128 tanks will be upgraded and there will be option to upgrade 14 more later, all in A4 variant.

As was said AMAP addon armor package will be used, besides this electrohydraulic turret drives will be replaced by fully electric, driver, commander and gunner will receive new Polish thermal cameras KLW-1, the Rh120/L44 gun will be upgraded to allow it use of new types of ammunition like DM63, tough still L44 barrel will be left, there is also peculiar information that gun breach might be changed to allow use new US 120mm ammo. But that's all we know for now.

[Tantalwz88]

Damian we will pay 4,5 mil euro per vehicle+another 4 mil for renovation.Driver will get thermal camera and rear view cam.

Edited December 28, 2015 by Tantalwz88

[Damian]

Yeah, still graphic from PGZ is very dissapointing... it's all very disappointing.

[Simon Tan]

Why? Modernized leo2 is good.

[Damian]

I expected something better considering initial requirements from Armaments Inspectorate....

[Simon Tan]

Finance Ministry mugged them.

[Damian]

And a new goverment, the new MoD is... well there are no words in language of civilized people to describe him.

[Panzermann]

And a new goverment, the new MoD is... well there are no words in language of civilized people to describe him.

The current polish government seems a very special breed indeed. But they are in office since mid novembre, how much influence can he have had?

 

---

 

New breach for handling new US ammunition? What is so different about it?

[Simon Tan]

Democracy....no bueno?

[urbanoid]

Actually they took the middle path - KMW has all in place, but probably there would be little to no tech transfer. Aselsan* claims it can do a lot, but the problem is ... they don't with their own Leo2s, so their industrial capabilities are questionable and politically it wouldn't be viable anyway - after all first 128 Leo2s were 'free'. And then there's Rheinmetall, with their Revolution package.

 

Looks like the 'EMES hole' will stay, it's apparently the KMW thing to get rid of it. Also, there may be no changes to the basic armor.

 

As I said, middle path between political needs (upgrading where we got them from) and industrial needs, including tech transfer. IMHO.

 

*inviting Aselsan to participate in a bid was more of a negotiation tactics, I don't believe we ever wanted to choose their offer.

[Simon Tan]

But...Poland is very pro-Sultan! After all, he is sticking to the Tsar......

[urbanoid]

AFAIK several TuAF squadrons doing BAP and dozens of Sukhois downed weren't part of the Leo2 upgrade package.

[Simon Tan]

If you don't ask......

[Damian]

http://www.armyrecognition.com/december_2015_global_defense_security_news_uk/ukraine_poland_will_cooperate_to_develop_mortar_carrier_and_howitzer_based_on_t-84_oplot_tank_12912154.html

 

Interesting.

[Tantalwz88]

And a new goverment, the new MoD is... well there are no words in language of civilized people to describe him.

 

Cpt.Wagner i like him too.

 

Yeah, still graphic from PGZ is very dissapointing... it's all very disappointing.

This graphics i think is only to show to the people "something" ,so they won't bugger them for more information.

 

 

Actually they took the middle path - KMW has all in place, but probably there would be little to no tech transfer. Aselsan* claims it can do a lot, but the problem is ... they don't with their own Leo2s, so their industrial capabilities are questionable and politically it wouldn't be viable anyway - after all first 128 Leo2s were 'free'. And then there's Rheinmetall, with their Revolution package.

 

Looks like the 'EMES hole' will stay, it's apparently the KMW thing to get rid of it. Also, there may be no changes to the basic armor.

 

As I said, middle path between political needs (upgrading where we got them from) and industrial needs, including tech transfer. IMHO.

 

*inviting Aselsan to participate in a bid was more of a negotiation tactics, I don't believe we ever wanted to choose their offer.

 

Altair press report from signing the contract wrote that Leopard 2 won't be the MBT Revolution but something else.So we can "stich" the EMES hole and have something diffrent than Rheinmetall MBT.

Edited December 29, 2015 by Tantalwz88

[Panzermann]

I guess it depends how much work Poland wants to put in rebuilding the turrets. Leaving the lower sitting gunner's sight as is and bolting on exteriour armour modules saves time and money obviously. On the other hand the turrets are going to be stripped completely anyway for the new turret drive and electronics.

[Panzermann]

http://www.armyrecognition.com/december_2015_global_defense_security_news_uk/ukraine_poland_will_cooperate_to_develop_mortar_carrier_and_howitzer_based_on_t-84_oplot_tank_12912154.html

 

Interesting.

I think this is the interesting part:

Ukraines Morozov design bureau and Polands Huta Stalowa Wola are to develop a 120-mm APC-

mounted mortar and a 155-mm howitzer mounted on the Oplot tank chassis.

For export sales I presume. I do not think that Poland wants to introduce Oplots.