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The Holocaust Just Got More Shocking


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Oddly enough the Japanese seemed to treat Jews far better than the Germans. In fact diplomatic staff in Berlin helped many Jews escape and to come to Japan, mainly ones with technical backgrounds.

 

Japanese Vice-Consul in Lithuania Chiune Sugihara in cooperation with two Polish officers (Cpt. Jakubianiec and Lt. Daszkiewicz) saved some 6,000 Jews by giving them Japanese visas and organizing their travel to Japan (via USSR).

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Another chilling book which I think is very good, & supplements Bloodlands well (though there is, of course, some overlap) is Hitler's Empire: Nazi Rule in Occupied Europe (Allen Lane, 2008) by Mark Mazower.

**SNIP**

 

A further chilling book which takes the Bloodlands theme into the immediate post-war period (including discussion of western Europe and the Balkans) is

 

Lowe, Keith. Savage Continent: Europe in the Aftermath of World War II. Viking, London, 2012. ISBN 978-0-670-91746-4

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One additional tidbit...Nazis had some ideas about Finns too....considered "not-really Aryans" :o

Also, didn't Finns have something of an attitude problem regarding 'Master Races'? ;)

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One additional tidbit...Nazis had some ideas about Finns too....considered "not-really Aryans" :o

Also, didn't Finns have something of an attitude problem regarding 'Master Races'? ;)

 

Field synagogue next to Waffen-SS Division Nord might have told them that. Same with telling Himmler that "Finns do not have Jewish problem" ;)

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Probably this old thread is the best for it: Soviet intelligence report about German camps in Auschwitz region in June 1944 (mostly military targets, for obvious reasons). Interesting German command orders warning on American aviation strikes mentioned

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Roman what are these documents please?

This is Red Army intelligence (60th Army, the one that took part in Lvov-Sandomir operation, liberated Krakov and later took Auschwitz) translation of Polish-language documents (from Poland resistance internal communications) describing German military installations and units in Auschwitz region

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A new war broke out among the Hungarian Holocaust researchers, after Laszlo Borhi, Associate Professor at Indiana University published a work accusing the Allies of hindrance of the Hungarian plan of leaving the Axis in order to force the German occupation. According to him, the Allies followed this plan despite that they knew it would mean the end of the Jewish population in Hungary.

 

In Hungary the Holocaust began with the mass executions of Jews at Kamianets-Podilskyi and Novi Sad in 1941. Between 1941 and the German occupation in 1944 it's form was unarmed forced work in auxiliary military units mostly at the frontlines, and everywhere in the country.

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Roman what are these documents please?

This is Red Army intelligence (60th Army, the one that took part in Lvov-Sandomir operation, liberated Krakov and later took Auschwitz) translation of Polish-language documents (from Poland resistance internal communications) describing German military installations and units in Auschwitz region

 

Thank you.

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A new war broke out among the Hungarian Holocaust researchers, after Laszlo Borhi, Associate Professor at Indiana University published a work accusing the Allies of hindrance of the Hungarian plan of leaving the Axis in order to force the German occupation. According to him, the Allies followed this plan despite that they knew it would mean the end of the Jewish population in Hungary.

 

In Hungary the Holocaust began with the mass executions of Jews at Kamianets-Podilskyi and Novi Sad in 1941. Between 1941 and the German occupation in 1944 it's form was unarmed forced work in auxiliary military units mostly at the frontlines, and everywhere in the country.

I thought that Hungary was an ally for most of the war?

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It was a peculiar German ally. The Hungarians couldn't stand the Romanians, and they didn't have a lot to win in the USSR so their support was quite measured. Horthy tried to switch sides in 1944, but the Germans weren't duped and staged a coup that put the local fascists of the Arrow Cross movement in power and then the Holocaust moved into high gear when Eichmann moved in with wide ranging powers.

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The documented camps include not only “killing centers” but also thousands of forced labor camps, where prisoners manufactured war supplies; prisoner-of-war camps; sites euphemistically named “care” centers, where pregnant women were forced to have abortions or their babies were killed after birth; and brothels, where women were coerced into having sex with German military personnel.

 

 

 

Concentration Camp was a label. It could be a camp for forced laborers or dissidents or an extermination camp. AFAIK the former were by far the most numerous and if you count each subsidiary camp separately you get high numbers.

 

About the brothels: Coerced? Have heard that about the Japanese but the Germans? Coercion wasn't probably necessary in France where there had been plenty of legal brothels and in the USSR wasn't there the whole race thing with the subhumans from the east?

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The Novi Sad events in 1942 resulted in some 3000 Serbs, Jews, and even Hungarians, being massacred. It is not considered as part of the Holocaust, but as a war crime. Those Hungarian officers responsible were tried, convicted, and sentenced to death by Hungarian courts. Unfortunately these men escaped to Germany, where they were welcomed with open arms.

 

Hungarian labor units—consisting approximately 80% Jews, and 20% "non-Magyars" (Ruthenians, Slovaks, and Rumanians)—on the East Front had suffered 35,000 killed or missing in

the Soviet offensive in January 1943. Not considered part of the Holocaust either, but as rather as part of the overall catastrophic losses, (130,000 casualties of 200,000), suffered by the 2nd Hungarian Army as a result of this offensive.

 

The Hungarians had made peace overtures as early as 1943 to the western Allies, mainly Great Britain, which remained steadfast in its stance regarding the "Unconditional Surrender" and the "No Separate Peace" agreed to by the Allies in WWII.

 

Hungary had been occupied by the Germans in March 1944 as a result of these peace feelers. Hungary regained a semblance of autonomy only after a change of personnel in the government following this event, but basically the Hungarian independence was over. And the real pogrom began, with more than 550,000 Jews being deported and murdered as of this time.

 

Furthermore, Horthy's (the ruler of Hungary) announcement on 15th October 1944 did not indicate a change of sides, merely that he was in the process of suing for an armistice with the Allies, specifically the Soviets [1]. The Germans did not approve, and quickly intervened before an armistice was concluded, and this time replacing the entire Hungarian government, including Horthy, with the Arrow Cross, the local variant of the Nazis.

 

[1] Probably wishful thinking, as I don't think the Soviets would have agreed to as armistice this late in the war. It was unconditional surrender or nothing.

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It seems Stalin was quite ready to accept an armistice with Horthy. He likely knew it would lead to a Soviet occupation and a Communist government as ended up happening in real life. Hungary was small potatoes. Crushing Germany was the goal.

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The Novi Sad events in 1942 resulted in some 3000 Serbs, Jews, and even Hungarians, being massacred. It is not considered as part of the Holocaust, but as a war crime. Those Hungarian officers responsible were tried, convicted, and sentenced to death by Hungarian courts. Unfortunately these men escaped to Germany, where they were welcomed with open arms.

 

Hungarian labor units—consisting approximately 80% Jews, and 20% "non-Magyars" (Ruthenians, Slovaks, and Rumanians)—on the East Front had suffered 35,000 killed or missing in

the Soviet offensive in January 1943. Not considered part of the Holocaust either, but as rather as part of the overall catastrophic losses, (130,000 casualties of 200,000), suffered by the 2nd Hungarian Army as a result of this offensive.

 

The Hungarians had made peace overtures as early as 1943 to the western Allies, mainly Great Britain, which remained steadfast in its stance regarding the "Unconditional Surrender" and the "No Separate Peace" agreed to by the Allies in WWII.

 

Hungary had been occupied by the Germans in March 1944 as a result of these peace feelers. Hungary regained a semblance of autonomy only after a change of personnel in the government following this event, but basically the Hungarian independence was over. And the real pogrom began, with more than 550,000 Jews being deported and murdered as of this time.

 

Furthermore, Horthy's (the ruler of Hungary) announcement on 15th October 1944 did not indicate a change of sides, merely that he was in the process of suing for an armistice with the Allies, specifically the Soviets [1]. The Germans did not approve, and quickly intervened before an armistice was concluded, and this time replacing the entire Hungarian government, including Horthy, with the Arrow Cross, the local variant of the Nazis.

 

[1] Probably wishful thinking, as I don't think the Soviets would have agreed to as armistice this late in the war. It was unconditional surrender or nothing.

 

Few points:

- we consider the beginning of the Holocaust broadly from the 1st Law about Jews in 1938, narrowly from 1941 when five-digit Hungarian + Non-Hungarian (they were refugees on areas re-attached to Hungary) Jews were killed approved by the Government just because they were Jews.

 

- De Jure the auxiliary labor units (one grade below labor units) were not to kill Jews, you are right. De Facto forced, unarmed work on the front, where the armed "frame" played games with the Jews, like forcing them to cross a minefield to clear it instead of removing the mines, burning a few hundred Jews suffering from typhoid fever in their sheds, gunning down the escaping ones, making a fencing Champion of Europe naked and pouring water on him till he froze - it was.

 

- You forgot from the labor units composition the communists, socialists, followers of Jehovah's Witnesses and other anti-militant Churches.

 

- The accepted agreement with the Soviets: end of the hostilities with the Soviets, declaring war on Germany, return behind the borders of 1937. For me, this is change of sides (as we love to accuse the Romanians and the Italians with).

 

- About Novi Sad: CG Szombathelyi ordered LG Feketehalmy-Czeydner to stop the atrocities of partisan hunting (they killed people who was unknown to the locals). Next day, the patrolmen got extra rum, and these drunk people committed the first unlawful, undefendable atrocities against other people than partisans.

Feketehalmy-Czeydner ordered to stop the raid 4 days later. Szombathelyi ordered a trial, which resulted in the promotion of a colonel.

Szombathelyi ordered a repeated trial, but Horthy dropped the case against Feketehalmy-Czeydner, and sent him into retirement. Two years later there was a trial again, with the result you have mentioned.

 

Szombathelyi has been executed in 4.11.1946 in Yugoslavia, together with the above mentioned, convicted officers for these atrocities. "There is only so much one soldier can hope from Fate"

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