Staff Versus Knife

[Simon Tan]

Ooo...errrr. I guess it would be either terribly funny or rather 'eggsighting'.....

The Soviets did have men with sashkas. So did the Wehrmacht.

[Sardaukar]

Something like extendable steel baton like ASP can be really nasty surprise to knife-wielding attacker, since one cannot often see it before it's extended. Breaks bones quite well too.

 

[DougRichards]

Something like extendable steel baton like ASP can be really nasty surprise to knife-wielding attacker, since one cannot often see it before it's extended. Breaks bones quite well too.

 

 

That is what I was thinking, and for those in law enforcement, a spray of capspray and a whach with an extendible baton....

 

Mind you, I am in favour of taser use: taser someone with a knife and it they don't go down with that warning - shooting is justified....

[Simon Tan]

Batons require lots of training to be used effectively. As a straight up impact tool, they are not that awesome. Pepper spray is variable in effect. Some people hardly notice it, even the high concentration stuff. Others are able to fight through...especially if they have been previously exposed. Tasers require much of skill to employ correctly than people are generally aware AND the effects can be variable. Fokker pulls a knife, he or she gets verbal command and then shot. This is why tasers are deployed with drawn guns already covering. Solo responders do NOT escalate by degrees. You wait for backup to go that route.

[DougRichards]

Batons require lots of training to be used effectively. As a straight up impact tool, they are not that awesome. Pepper spray is variable in effect. Some people hardly notice it, even the high concentration stuff. Others are able to fight through...especially if they have been previously exposed. Tasers require much of skill to employ correctly than people are generally aware AND the effects can be variable. Fokker pulls a knife, he or she gets verbal command and then shot. This is why tasers are deployed with drawn guns already covering. Solo responders do NOT escalate by degrees. You wait for backup to go that route.

 

I am actually more worried about the shooter than the person who gets shot. I used to work with a guy who, as a security guard, shot and killed, a crim who he came across trying to break into cars. The crim came at him with a screwdriver. One shot: the security guard did not have baton, spray or taser, just his gun. He had no alternative 'tool'. Well he was cleared by the police, judicial system, coroner etc, but it still ruined a big part of his life. His marriage broke up, didn't see his kids as much as he would have liked anymore, had trouble with other relationships.

 

The shooting was justified, but the shooter did not come out unscathed. May have been one of those incidents where the guard would have preferred to try cap spray. May just have saved one life, and helped another from going down the tubes.

 

The guard, by the way, later got a job as a sheriff's officer - no, not like the US, more like a bailiff - court security and the like, where he doesn't carry a gun, but does have a baton, and cap spray....

Edited February 20, 2013 by DougRichards

[shep854]

Was not the use of E-tools for combat an improvised function in lieu of a better weapon for the function?

 

I'd say yes' date=' though apparently WWII-era Soviets were trained to use them as weapons. I also wouldn't be surprised to learn that others might have, as well. Any digging implement should by its nature and function make for a decent CQB tool.

 

 

Shot

[/quote']

When at OCS, it was mentioned that medals were awarded for actions with E-tools. In Vietnam, at least, an on-the-ball grunt sharpened one edge of the shovel; also there was opposition (in the Marines, at least) to replacing the wood-handled tool with the current aluminum-handled folding model for the reason it didn't do as well in a scrap.

[Simon Tan]

He should have been shived and bled out.

[Typhoid Maxx]

Staff versus knife, knife. Not a conversation.

 

shep854, Simon Tan - PASS, A+

 

Sardaukar - F-, as ever. Now, a billy club, or slap jack/black jack, or even a pool ball in a hand towel is a BEEEEEEEEEEEYATCH.

 

"ahem"

 

I should shut up now....

 

 

Oh. Right. Um. Got a 4.5 MILLION vault taser disguised a flashlight a while back. Ditched, kinda HAD too...don't like prison. Um, TESTED it on me, then with witnesses to test. Choice?

 

Intimidation? Got distance, the taser MIGHT make a guy think twice with the sparking, sparkling crackling.

 

Me? I want you dead, I know a taser, that knife will finish you but good.

 

Sardaukar's baton might make a so so guy think twice, but a determined, committed knife attack is mostly lethal.

Edited March 10, 2013 by Typhoid Maxx

[Sardaukar]

Sardaukar - F-, as ever. Now, a billy club, or slap jack/black jack, or even a pool ball in a hand towel is a BEEEEEEEEEEEYATCH.

 

Sardaukar's baton might make a so so guy think twice, but a determined, committed knife attack is mostly lethal.

 

Of course committed knife attack is lethal. It's not deterrence, it's defense.

 

You'd never extend it out until other guy committed himself and thinks you are unarmed.

 

Nothing helps one if someone surprises you with knife and stabs you. That is called "situational awareness".

Edited March 11, 2013 by Sardaukar

[Typhoid Maxx]

Which is why I think a blackjack/billy club (no deployment) is a better option the the space needing-and-skill-to-wield baton...for most.

 

NOT everybody has practiced EXTENSIVE stick fighting . I doubt the vast majority of LEO's have as a fact, considering the footage of only the the One Swing To Rule Them All Swing over hand shoulder swing on youtube

 

Serb police, world riot police seem all but useless. This is NOT indicative

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RAco8NHuzaU

 

EDITED TO ADD: Damn, my kinda woman

Edited March 12, 2013 by Typhoid Maxx

[Sardaukar]

One problem with telescopic batons is that if they do not lock properly, they are useless as stabbing weapon.

[Guest Jason L]

Pedal wrench? For reference, they are usually about 1/2 the length of an adult male forearm.

 

[Sardaukar]

That I could call deterrence...

 

Just bit difficult to conceal....

[JTV_new]

The way I see it, if both persons are anywhere near the same skill level, they are both likely to suffer wounds in such a fight. What makes the difference is the type of wounds.

 

Just like staffs, not all knives are the same either. My personal favourite:

 

 

Once ones goes into territory of "btw - this thing can chop off limb with a single blow", IMO both defence and deterrence are covered.

[Sardaukar]

Guy carrying a Kukri may get some attention...

[rmgill]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sLS3RGesIFQ

[shep854]

Good one, Ryan!

[rmgill]

 

This guy seems to know what he's about.

[ShotMagnet]

I was all set to laugh my ass off at this guy; the girth, don't you know, but when he showed the murder-strikes I started paying closer attention.

 

Pretty cool vid, BTW. Where are more of these?

 

 

 

 

Shot

[rmgill]

There are several other parts. I figure they're SCAdians and while they sometimes seem a bit juvenile or structured in forms, there's some amazingly studious and well practiced fighters in the SCA, a goodly number who are active military and are the sort of person I'd highly desire to NEVER face with them having real blades.

 

Pt 2

 

Pt 3.

 

More up to part 6 on youtube.

[rmgill]

A more recent class...

 

[shep854]

SCA is indeed a flavor of reenactor, but like Ryan said, some take it to...extremes, especially the cultural parts.

Edited March 13, 2013 by shep854

[Typhoid Maxx]

"ahem" Western Martial Arts...some GOOD shit, pump Sardaukar...if he aint gone TOO native

[X-Files]

This is written like a Training Manual

http://www.paladin-press.com/product/Advanced_Bowie_Techniques/Knife_and_sword_Fighting

[Sardaukar]

Some interesting stuff: