Red Ice Box

[BansheeOne]

I've looked at the Turan, but the Czech S-IIc prototypes were never finished before annexation. The German then fiddled around with the design until 1941 before they gave it to the Hungarians. We would have to have gotten interested in the project very early after its inception at the end of 1937 to have a good claim, our relationship with the occupiers deteoriates one year after they take control over the Hitler-Stalin Pact, and even if demanding the fulfilment of existing agreements, the German rerouted the Swedish TNH order for their own uses.

 

I guess they could offer us the project instead or in addition to Hungary after Barbarossa commences as part of an attempt to win us back as a North American ally. Otherwise we would have had to offer the Skoda design team refuge early on. Anybody knows somebody there who fought with the Czech Legion back in the Civil War?

[Marek Tucan]

Hm, truth be told there were plenty of Whites in exile in CZK - they would gravitate towards the Alaska probably, incl. persons like general Sergej Vojcechovsky. This might lead to closer ties... Hmm.

 

maybe not tanks, but actually S-I-D and S-I-J tankettes?

 

While tactical possibilities are limited by crew of 2, Skoda S-I-D offered (with a crew of 2) a 37mm gun , 22mm armor and top speed of 41 kph; bigger S-I-j mounted 47mm and had thicker armor (but lower mobility).

Š-I-D was exported to Yugoslavia in 1937, Š-I-j prototype would be too late.

But... Anyway.

(let's think here)

instead of Praga (later BMM) you cooperate with Škoda from the beginning. This gives you:

• direct access to gun development - ability to poke in the direction of unified 40mm AT and Tank gun (real project A-17)
  
• Possibility to procure Škoda Š-II light tank (PzKpfw 35t). few bonuses here:
  
  • Suspension based on Vickers 6 ton - you are familiar with it, you can instigate replacement by Vickers original after the war starts (hardly a fantasy - USSR went the other way and procured Skoda suspension for T-26 series upgrade)
    
  • Prototypes/plans for variant with stronger engines
    
  • Same for variant with bigger turret with room for loader and 47mm gun
    

  [*]Access to projects of modern AA guns (ironically export was going so well that skoda did not feel the need to urge Czechoslovakian army to decide which one to buy)

Preferably you should aim to setting up some sort of licence production, at least for guns and ammo.

You may even get some skoda people after the occupation, play on the anti-commie string in spring 1939 and ask Germans to let them go.

 

So...

 

Skoda S-II-al/T-11-a (Alaska) - Pz 35t, generally. You may go the German way and replace some ammo with loader

Skoda T-12-a : version with bigger turret, bigger gun, loader (you may replace the 47mm with 40mm). Hull was generally still the same though - savings there, especially if you run some license production or atleast assembly.

combat weight 10 950 kg

svetlá výška 0,35 m

motor 4 valec Škoda T-11/2 (135 k)

speed 32,8 kph

armor 8-25 mm

47 mm Škoda A9 (78 rounds)

2x vz. 37 (ZB-53) MG (ca 3000 rounds)

Crew: 4

 

As support vehicle for cavalry, S-I-a, variant of S-I-D with 40mm gun.

 

Another point: You may go British way and order vz.26 LMG variant in "your" ammunition range (.30-06), same with ZB-53 (vz.37) HMG. Or you may mount brownings in the tanks.

 

During the war:

T-11/3-inch; TD (similar to Romanian) on older T-11 tanks (37mm version), mounting (at first) older 3" AA/naval guns. As war progresses, you may re-arm them with 3" AT gun from US. You may even get a variant mounting a 105mm howitzer

S-I-a/57mm; again, TD variant, mounting a 6-pounder/57mm gun and more men in an open superstructure to upgrade over the 40mm version.

these kitbash TDs / SPGs would be made as the tanks would be replaced by M4 Medium series in tank units and by M5 Light in Cavalry units. T-12 tanks would be probably good 2nd line things/trainers throughout the war.

 

If Alaskan force participates in war womewhere, it is going to be equipped fully in Uncle Sam's kit anyway, all these things stay in Alaska.

[BansheeOne]

But of course, old Sergei Nikolajevich! He was always going back and forth between Junograd and Prague right up till 1939. Last I heard he got pissed because we didn't protest the German annexation too strongly and resigned from the Army, retreated to some ramshackle industrial plant in Stoyanka where he has been tinkering on nondescript stuff with some guys he allegedly smuggled out of Czechoslovakia over the last years. I think I'll make the flight over there and

 

Czech out the place! Muhahahaha!

[shep854]

You been eatin' Tomas' cooking?

[Colin]

I thought they were busy building that other Vickers POS, the Valentine for the Bolsheviks? I m distressed by their babarous patois.

 

I am particularly proud of my Cossack konvoi with their magnificent maroon Cherkesska and white hats. Now they have their magnificent vert Zundapp steeds and biker goggles. The previous Harley Davidsons just were not adequate..

They are a good match to my Dusenberg Marshall Landaulet that I had repainted in matte Army green to reflect the martial times we live in.

 

The Canadian Military Pattern vehicles are most utilitarian. They lack the quirky elegance of say the Laffly.

 

Not till 1941, actually it was well liked for the most part, when armed with a better gun than the 2pdr.

[BansheeOne]

Type 1942 Engineer Battalion (36/132/767//935)

 

- Battalion HQ (4/1/8//13; 4 x jeep, 2 x motorcycle, 1 x motorcycle combination)

 

- HQ Company (8/27/146//181)

 

- HQ Squad (2/1/7//10; 2 x jeep, 2 x motorcycle, 1 x motorcycle combination)

 

- QM Squad (0/4/11//15; 1 x 0.75 t, 3 x 3 t truck, 1 x 3 t tanker truck)

 

- Medical Squad (2/2/13//17; 4 x 0.75 t ambulance, 1 x 3 t truck)

 

- Signals Platoon (1/5/29//35;

8 x 0.75 t truck,

1 x jeep, 2 x motorcycle, 1 x motorcycle combination)

 

- Engineer Reconnaissance Platoon (1/4/33/38; 7 x jeep, 2 x motorcycle, 4 x motorcycle combination)

 

-

Anti-Air Platoon (1/5/21//28;

4 x 20 mm Oerlikon AA gun, 4 x 0.75 t truck,

1 x jeep, 2 x motorcycle, 1 x motorcycle combination)

 

- Quartermaster Platoon (1/6/32//39; 1 x jeep,

2 x 0.75 t truck,

12 x 3 t truck, 4 x 3 t tanker truck)

 

 

- 3 x Engineer Company (6/26/152//184)

 

- HQ Squad (2/1/7//10; 2 x jeep, 2 x motorcycle, 1 x motorcycle combination)

 

- QM Squad (0/4/8//12; 1 x 0.75 t, 3 x 3 t truck, 1 x 3 t tanker truck)

 

- Maintenance Squad (0/2/8//10;

2 x 0.75 t, 3 x 3 t truck)

 

- 3 x Engineer Platoon (1/4/33//38;

3 x 3 t truck,

1 x jeep, 2 x motorcycle, 1 x motorcycle combination)

 

- Heavy Engineer Platoon (1/7/30//38; 1 x jeep, 15 x 3 t truck)

 

 

- Bridging Company (6/26/152//184)

 

- HQ Squad (2/1/7//10; 2 x jeep, 2 x motorcycle, 1 x motorcycle combination)

 

- QM Squad (0/4/8//12; 1 x 0.75 t, 3 x 3 t truck, 1 x 3 t tanker truck)

 

- Maintenance Squad (0/2/8//10;

2 x 0.75 t, 3 x 3 t truck)

 

- 3 x Pontoon Platoon (1/4/33//38;

1 x jeep, 15 x 3 t truck

)

 

- Boat Platoon (1/7/30//38; 1 x jeep, 15 x 3 t truck)

[Simon Tan]

No bloody tankettes. We saw those little wretched coffins in Spain with the Italians.

 

The mysterious factory in Stoyanka is a brewery. A small clandestine operation since a legitiate brewery requires many permits from many departments and ministries. The poor Czechs have been literally crying into their Canadian beer.....which they call Moose Moč/Moose Piss (Molson Export).As copper is a restricted strategic material, they have been surreptitiously hoarding it to build their kettles. My men found this after questioning some Trade Ministry officials. Vigorously.

 

We have to close one eye to this as the level of unhappiness has already lead to one self-defenstration. I have ordered their windows nailed shut but I fear they will eventually become desperate enough to simply go through the glass.

 

Our deal is simple, you can have beer like in Plzen if we can have guns like from Plzen. How do you think all those cannons and howitzers came to be? Ever since the Pilsner started to flow, productivity is up 346%. Lest you think this is a simple task, we not only had to smuggle out the yeast, we still have to ship the Saaz hops through Sweden. Fortunately the cost is not that excessive as there is less demand on outbound shipping than inbound to Sweden.

 

In addition to the Czechs, we are now innundated by Yugoslav emigres.

 

The Germans have been shooting the T-26 6-tonners to pieces all summer. It's a lot worse than Spain. Good reason not to buy any from the Canadians. Better than saying you cannot understand a word they utter.

Edited September 25, 2012 by Simon Tan

[Marek Tucan]

No bloody tankettes. We saw those little wretched coffins in Spain with the Italians.

 

Actually these are more like mini-StuGs 37/47mm packs still serious punch, and since in pre-war days your principal enemy is armed with christie and Vickers tin cans, you can take design that actually made Vickers 6t the right way around

 

Anyway, fast forward to 1945... With Russian Alaska, what are the chances that the Allies decide not to give Cossacks and Vlasov's troops back to Stalin (except some exemplary cases like Vlasov himself and top brass), but let them be "interned" around Junograd? Would probably depend on the involvement of Alaska in the war - possibly in theaters where Alaskan troops won't come into direct contact with soviets (so no "mainstream" ETO), but it might even be part of the price of Alaska providing bases/allowing Lend-Lease through etc. What would the US and UK say in such a situation?

[Simon Tan]

I dont care how big a bloody gun they have. It is manned by one poor bastard. How he can spot the enemy, tell the driver where to go, track his troop, listen to his radio, load and aim the gun and shoot is really beyond me. Now, if there was a gunner, it might be OK...maybe.

 

If you give everything to Plzen, you cannot keep everyone hungry. That CKD has a better design in the TNH, emphasizing reliability and maintainability. You cannot underestimate how valuable this is with the quality of RusAm soldiers. The signage in the maintenance depot is Stoyanka is in Russian, Czech and English for a reason.

 

ETA:- Anyway, I used to keep a lovely cellist in Praha.........

Edited September 26, 2012 by Simon Tan

[Kentucky-roughrider]

Herr General,

As a horseman, I feel that your excellentcy does not understand how rough of terrian that a horse an go compared to even a 4 wheel drive armored car or a tracked vechile, and might make an excellent mode of transportation for your border guard and cavalry in areas where the tanks and armored cars would have problem and The Godless commies have disbanded all cossask troops in their armies, we should allow any and all who are welling to come here as a soon as possible, however watching for NKVD spies as well. They as a group have ;lost many of the rights, they had earned as some f the Tsar's loyalest troops and shouldn't any russians that have fled to other places in Europe he encouraged to head there as well. .

For civil defence a system similar to the Boer commando system might be used as well..

[Simon Tan]

We are getting a little ahead of ourselves. It is the summer of 1941, we are at peace with everyone other than the Bolsheviks who we have had a ceasefire since 1920.

 

Part of the problem of Cossack bands in RusAm is the lack of spaces to raise and keep horses. The Cossacks traditionally kept their own horses....not a problem in the Donbass and southern Ukraine, a bit of a problem up here. It is one of the reasons why we have switched to motor transport. No horses and nowhere to raise them or to gather feed and fodder.

 

My konvoi now has Zundapp KS750s for this reason. Their horses are kept stabled for formal occasions.

 

RusAm is full of NKVD. I have made it clear that they are welcome to stay and enjoy life in America as long as they don't start stabbing people with icepicks without letting me know.

 

ETA:- I would be grateful if you would avoid using Herr...it is unpatriotic. While the Germans are doing God's work in killing Bolsheviks, remember that they are mostly poor Russian boys forced to fight for a villainous regime. Thus we mourn their passing as a necessary price to liberate Russia from the servants of Satan.

Edited September 26, 2012 by Simon Tan

[Colin]

Horses are pack animals in Alaska and dinner when they don't survive. Fodder is expensive and has to be imported. Cossack's are going to have to go armoured or be based with an ally down south or elsewhere.

[thekirk]

As a sub-set on this topic...

 

Why don't we consider what would have happened had the Russians not given up their colony in Northern California, right along with the Alaskan idea? About the only real historical change that would have been required is that the Russians did a bit more exploration than they did, and discovered the gold deposits that Sutter found in the 1840s. Say they started exploring seriously when they established the colony in 1812, and found the gold sometime between then and the 1820s?

 

Now, fast forward to a Russian enclave in Northern California, right along with their Alaskan colony. Care to imagine the possibilities? Right there, you have perfect spot for Cossacks, and a motive to establish them there. What the hell was Spain going to do? Or, for that matter, the United States? With the Russians in control of California gold, a whole bunch of changes come into being--Particularly that the Union side in the Civil War might not have had the cash to do much more than throw evil glances at the Confederacy. It also gives us more time and motivation for the Russians to get involved in North America than in our timeline.

[BansheeOne]

Holding a chunk of the Californian coast from Point Arena to Bodega Bay - say, everything West of highways 101 and 128 - would surely improve things a lot due to all the advantages that come with a reasonably warm piece of country, starting with the more attractive dwelling space it would make for emigrées from Southern parts of Russia. In fact I believe Alaska would remain the sparsely inhabited place it is, and 80 percent plus of our population would be crammed into those, what, 800-1000 square miles? The Golden Gate Bridge would lead from the US to Russia; talk about seeing Russia from your house!

 

It's easy to see that if Russia doesn't sell Alaska, it hangs onto its Californian colony too; or rather, holding onto the latter a couple years more until the gold strike of 1848 would probably serve as an incentive to keep the former, as it would ease the financial strain of the empire and demonstrate that you never know what you might give away. I see in the Wiki entry on Fort Ross that Russian historians actually claim John Sutter never paid the agreed sum for the purchase and the title on the land therefore still by rights belongs to their government ...

 

However, the way the US gobbled up everything West of the original 13 colonies by settlement, war or purchase, I think the chances of making it into the 20th century are rather slim. This is not some cold remote agglomeration of bears, wolves and rocks, but a very attractive small piece of land, sure to be a bone of contention. Would be fun to include, but we probably should stick to the Alaskan scenario, as California would make it a whole different ballgame. Though maybe we can keep a small enclave as a trading post, sort like a Russian Guantanamo or Macao? Would serve to facilitate good commerce with the US ...

 

Anyway, I intend to form the majority of what cossacks we have into a detachment under 1st Cavalry Division, serving the same duties as the cavalry detachments in the infantry divisions. They will probably include a horse squadron of about 250. Plus the Tan Cossacks attached to 1st Guards Regiment of course.

 

BTW, I found Sergei Nicolajevich and his Czech pals in that brewery of theirs. One of them actually has a full set of drawings and documentation for the S-IIc medium tank project! Unfortunately we have no industrial capacity to turn the paper into working steel. I wonder if Montreal Locomotives would build it for us instead of more Six-Tons?

 

For now, I have talked Vojcechovsky into taking charge of Kutuzov Arsenal. He should get them motivated, I remember it made quite a splash when he personally shot General Grivin for abandoning his position.

Edited September 26, 2012 by BansheeOne

[RETAC21]

A Ruso-American war in the Pacific in the 1870/1880s is surely going to be an interesting affaire.

[BansheeOne]

Type 1942 Medical Battalion (103/135/706//944)

 

- Battalion HQ (4/1/8//13; 4 x jeep, 2 x motorcycle, 1 x motorcycle combination)

 

- HQ Company (27/38/126//191)

 

- HQ Squad (2/1/7//10; 2 x jeep, 2 x motorcycle, 1 x motorcycle combination)

 

- QM Squad (0/4/11//15, 4 x truck driver/mechanic; 1 x 0.75 t, 3 x 3 t truck, 1 x 3 t tanker truck)

 

- Signals Platoon (1/5/29//35;

8 x 0.75 t truck

, 1 x jeep, 2 x motorcycle, 1 x motorcycle combination)

 

- Hospital Platoon (18/11/20//49;

4 x 3 t truck,

9 x jeep, 2 x motorcycle)

 

- Veterinary Platoon (5/11/26//42; 6 x 3 t truck, 3 x jeep, 2 x motorcycle)

 

- Quartermaster Platoon

(1/6/32//39; 1 x jeep,

2 x 0.75 t truck,

12 x 3 t truck, 4 x 3 t tanker truck)

 

 

- 4 x Medical Company (18/24/143//185)

 

- HQ Squad (2/1/7//10; 2 x jeep, 2 x motorcycle, 1 x motorcycle combination)

 

- QM Squad (0/2/8//10; 1 x 0.75 t, 4 x 3 t truck)

 

- 3 x Medical Platoon (5/5/32//42; 4 x 0.75 t ambulance, 4 x 3 t truck, 1 x jeep, 2 x motorcycle)

 

- Quartermaster Platoon

(1/6/32//39; 1 x jeep,

2 x 0.75 t truck,

15 x 3 t truck, 2 x 3 t tanker truck)

Edited September 26, 2012 by BansheeOne

[Colin]

The port of Prince Rupert is doing quite well being the head of the only railway coming close to Alaska. As well the Bella Coola valley is happily supplying fruits and vegies to the market, being close to Alaska and with a handy access to the Sea.

 

Both the Rus-Alaskan government and the Canadian government realize that both would benefit from a secure landlink. But the costs are so high and the US is indifferent to helping to shoulder the burden, seems they are still annoyed at their generous offer to buy Alaska being snubbed.

Work is slowly progressing on a rail link up Dease lake, to Teslin and then to Whitehorse which is already linked to Skagway via a narrow gauge railway. Attempts to push a road through to Fort Nelson and Watson lake from Dawson Creek are running far behind schedule and cost overuns are likely to force abandonment of the idea for the time being.

[Simon Tan]

Hands off my Konvoi! It is officially part of the Escort Regiment of the Signals Corps (read Brandenburgers). My people are presently busy trying to buy captured Bolshevik material for evaluation.

 

I do not see the point of contracting for the Skoda medium given the limited numbers we need and the difficulties in sourcing replacement components for the Czech parts. At least with the TNH, we can get Volvo-Scania engines etc. albeit with the shipping issues.

[Colin]

Not to mention by 1941 Canada is designing the Ram, while the Americans are still wanting "MG casement" tanks, The US army only starting to support the Lee. (kicking and screaming) Canada would be interested in a joint buy with Alaska but is already having problems meeting the demands for gun barrels and is attempting to source more and bigger lathes.

[BansheeOne]

*slap to forehead* I swear, one day I'll run against a tree looking for the forest. Here I am flipping through armor catalogues from all over the world, and the Ram is being designed right next door. I hear you guys are having some trouble with that though, never having built tanks before; can we help out with some expatriate Czech engineers? Once Sergei brings Kutuzov up to speed, extra guns shouldn't be a problem.

[Simon Tan]

The Canadians are doing it the very hard way by choosing to go with high investment and centralized large castings for the hull and turret. It also means any modifications are going to be difficult since your tooling will already be set up for the initial batch.

The British have been hampered in their Cruiser tank programs largely because they invariably choose the fast solution rather than the better solution. The casting method does mean that any shortcomings are fixed in from the outset and will require a lot of time and effort to rework.

If I was confident that the Canadians knew what they were doing, it may be alright but this is their maiden effort and some of the early indicators are not comforting. The secondary MG turret is like bad penny, it crops up every so often to fail, be it on the T-28 or the A9 Cruiser.

[Colin]

A prototype Ram was completed in June 1941. General production of the Ram I began in November of the same year. This was fitted with side doors in the hull and an auxiliary machine gun turret in the front - these features would be discarded in later modifications. By February 1942, production had switched to the Ram II model with a 6-pounder gun and continued until July 1943, when a decision was made to adopt the Sherman tank for all British and Canadian units. By that point 1,948 vehicles, including 84 artillery observation post (OP) vehicles, had been completed From wiki

 

 

However the factory was used to such techniques, the design was quite good for a first try and they did fix their first mistakes. In this alternate history we can pretend that Canada/ Rus-alaska took part in the trails of th M2 combat car and M2 medium, purchasing the rights to both and some test hulls which helped lower costs for the US army. Alaska would find the combat cars interesting as they had a light logistical footprint.

 

 

Canada has been forced to spend much need monies on coastal defenses and ships for the pacific fleet, most of the defenses were built as part of the "Make work" programs as is the above mentioned railway. One of the running sores between Alaska and Canada has been corrupt and heavy handed Alaskan border officals, leading to some local incidents where residents in Stewart tossed the head of the border police into the ocean where he drowned. The residents of Hyderisky protested loudly about the affront to their national dignigty till at least noon when the saloons reopened, by next morning both sides agreed the deceased was a scoundral who deserved his fate.

 

Also the Ukrainians settled into Canada are still deeply suspious of the government in Alaska and are disinterested in helping them.

Edited September 27, 2012 by Colin

[Simon Tan]

Ahem....This is Russia, not Alaska. That is a derogatory and seditious term concocted by enemies of the Russian state.I trust our good neightbours in the Dominion of Canada are savvy to this. We have decided in the spirit of mutual amity to not pursue any further official action on the murder of the Russian tax agent by a Canadian mob in Hyderisky. (He was of course murdered by bootleggers who were being squeezed white. It was of course a mistake as it highlighted the lucrative business to my office in Stoyanka....ooops. The net result was a bunch of very dead bootleggers on the Russian side and a new revenue stream for the Signals Corps.)

 

As far as observing the American armor trials...the Russians went away in paroxyms of laughter. THey had seen better ideas in Spain and are convinced that the Americans are quite mad.

 

As far as the 'Ukrainians', I simply warn Canadians that they are deviants and troublemakers.

[Marek Tucan]

Ram is "during war", Š-II / LT 35 is pre-war. You can hardly equip your troops in 1930s with something from 1941

 

Also it is available earlier than TNH in the more refined version, plus more direct link for gun development and cooperation with Vickers.

[Simon Tan]

It is 1941 and the Ram is still vaporware. It is one of the options that Russia has for a new medium tank.

 

You have a beef with CKD? The Skoda tanks are really not awesome and not simple like the TNH. With the German occupation and creeping annexation*, we would be shafted on the Skodas, which were maintained by the Romanians.

 

*Especially after supernutter Heydrich is put in charge.

Edited September 27, 2012 by Simon Tan