Red Ice Box

[Brian Kennedy]

Banshee, if you're still bored you might dig Michael Chabon's The Yiddish Policeman's Union (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Yiddish_Policemen%27s_Union). Basically, In 1940 the US (implementing a proposal that apparently existed in the real world) establishes Alaska as a refuge of E. European Jews, Israel is destroyed in '48, and Alaska becomes more-or-less a new Jewish homeland. No word on their Order of Battle though.

[thekirk]

This whole thread could be taken as an illustration of why the German German Staff managed to run circles around the rest of us for so long... This is what passes for entertainment, apparently, in those circles.

 

Outside of Germany, the only people likely to be doing this are somewhat monomaniacal hobbyist basement-dwellers. The Germans apparently identify and put those people into staff positions in their military.

 

Seriously, though--Amazing work, and very interesting to watch as you build it. If I ever need to work out an MTOE for the military of some imaginary world I'm creating, I think I know who I'll seek out as a collaborator.

[Kentucky-roughrider]

The reasons why I questioned you about that was the Vickers had heavier armor, a fairly cheap and simple tank for the time, with the same firepower as the leopard 1. And in the role I saw it being used in the protection would me more important that mobliity advantage of the Leopard 1 (that is based on the specs I have found online and we all know how trustworthy they can be). the reason I asked asked about the cavalry regiment is, shouldn't armor be used in mass instead of piecemeal? However, I can also see the advaantage of placing tanks in the infantry brigade.

 

I can understand why you would have put a premuim on skilled light infantry as well, which might be more important in that situation.

[Old Tanker]

I think it's far more likely that Alaska would have become a Russian Taiwan. I agree with the thekirk though that the ramifications involved in Alaska not being sold to the US may have been far-reaching. Was there a possibility of it being sold to Britain as T19 wrote?

 

Russki not happy with Brits over Crimea.....No way Jose !

[BansheeOne]

Outside of Germany, the only people likely to be doing this are somewhat monomaniacal hobbyist basement-dwellers.

 

That would be me. And I quit my contract three months into my career as an officer candidate.

 

I have to say the result has lots of influence from Germany, Scandinavia, the US and even the Commonwealth ... but nothing overtly from Russia.

 

The reasons why I questioned you about that was the Vickers had heavier armor, a fairly cheap and simple tank for the time, with the same firepower as the leopard 1. And in the role I saw it being used in the protection would me more important that mobliity advantage of the Leopard 1 (that is based on the specs I have found online and we all know how trustworthy they can be). the reason I asked asked about the cavalry regiment is, shouldn't armor be used in mass instead of piecemeal?

 

Yeah, I know. "Klotzen, nicht kleckern", as per Guderian. Actually the tank companies have taken the place of a brigade tank destroyer company I originally wanted to include per the German Cold War organisation; but I already had the TOW platoons in the infantry battalions, and couldn't replicate gun TDs on a Piranha chassis in the truck-mounted reserve brigades, so I left that out. When I disbanded the Cavalry Regiment, I just plugged the companies into the empty socket.

 

Of course I could hold my tanks together in a conventional armor regiment with no organic mechanized infantry and SPHs and about two thirds the personnel savings of the current solution. But then the whole idea behind armored cavalry is to act as scouts and fire brigade in self-contained units. Pure armor units would as likely as not be split up to work with infantry in combat, and my tank companies of 20 already have the strength of half a battalion.

 

I have actually toyed with the idea of fusing them with the brigade recon companies though, which would be a bit like your suggestion of tank destroyer battalions; I could call them Brigade Cavalry Squadrons. That would however again speak for the speedier Leopard, while the slower but better protected Vickers MBT would be better suited as infantry support. Let me run the numbers and see if that's worthwhile.

[Simon Tan]

These are not Russian.

[BansheeOne]

Well, it's what living in North America for six decades will do to you. If you hired Germans to design your military, that is.

 

 

Infantry Brigade (215/762/4,378//5,355)

 

- HQ Company (14/40/182//236)

 

- 3 x Infantry Battalion, each 36/134/802//972:

-- HSS Company (12 x Piranha for active units, trucks for reserves; 13/38/178//229)

-- 3 x Infantry Company (18 x Piranha each for active units, trucks for reserves; 6/24/164//194)

-- Weapons Company (6 x Piranha w/ TOW, 6 x w/ 81 mm L6 mortar, 6 x w/ 40 mm Mk 19 AGL for active units, trucks for reserves; 5/24/132//161)

 

- Cavalry Squadron (28/89/412//529)

-- HSS Troop (1 x Leopard 1A3, 1 x Piranha w/ 35 mm GDD-BOE turret, 4 x command vehicle; 13/38/178//229)

-- 3 x Cavalry Troop (9 x Leopard 1A3, 5 x Piranha w/ 35 mm GDD-BOE turret, 2 x w/ 81 mm L6 mortar, 2 x command vehicle, 1 x ambulance for active units, M48 and gun trucks for reserves; 5/17/78//100)

 

- Artillery Battalion (28/95/544//667)

-- HSS Battery (13/38/178//229)

-- 3 x Field Gun Battery (8 x 105 mm L118 each for active units, M102 for reserves; 5/19/98//122)

 

- Support Battalion (37/136/834//1,007)

-- HSS Company (13/38/178//229)

-- Engineer Company (6/24/164//194)

-- Maintenance Company (6/24/164//194)

-- Logistics Company (6/24/164//194)

-- Medical Company (6/24/164//194)

 

 

This is a bit lazy, assuming the same strength for HSS companies of all battalion types and treating all support companies like infantry. Still, my hitherto used rule-of-thumb to assume 180 for any type of company-level unit proves amazingly accurate at this level; the true average value in the brigade is 185.

 

This also means that with the cavalry squadron I now have 300 additional personnel in the brigade, or 600 for both active infantry brigades. That’s not too bad; I wonder if I can disband the Air Defense Brigade, put a Gepard platoon into the cavalry squadrons, an AA battery into the artillery battalions and the Rapier Battalion into one of the artillery brigades, thus saving a HQ and HSS battery and a logistics battalion in compensation.

[Kentucky-roughrider]

I know you can't just create more personal just because you want them there, exspecially when there are not in your population to begin with. But, it is hard to bet the versatility of a armored cavalry regiment,which might be something very important to a small force like that.

 

 

One question with the missile only antitank teams, what is the failure rate among Milian or TOW missles compared to anti tank guns Assuming you had the money and man power how would a Sk 105 Kurassier work in that situation as a tank destroyer?

[Simon Tan]

This is terrible. Not since the madness of Paul has there been such nimiets in the Russian military. This is not North America, this is Russia. *gestures to the grand bleak landscape*.

 

I don't believe that the Piranhas make that much sense. Would BandVagns not be better? Even M113s with ostketten as needed. I would imagine the demands of winter really predicate against the wheeled death traps.

 

Also, they do need more Recce/Scout type assets given the nature of Alaskan AO. I would imagine at least a Recce Platoon in Skidoos, ATVs and Jeeps (generic 4x4 vis M38 etc.)

 

Third, the tough conditions almost certainly warrant a pioneer platoon in the HQ Co. The engineer company at Bde is not really adequate.

 

Again, the attached Cavalry Regiment (e.g. Petrovsky) should not have Piranhas for the same reasons as the infantry. The M114/Lynx is a non-starter but a NM135-a-like is possible. Or even an aarly Bv206S.....35mm cannon in the 1980s.....ridiculous. A 20mm gun is quite adequate.....

[BansheeOne]

The Bandvagns are in the ranger regiments. Again, given the vastness of the land, my main concern for the bulk of forces is operational rather than tactical mobility. No vehicle will climb a mountain, and if you're limited to the valleys where the roads are, so is the invader - but you have to go there to block him, or you will fight him in the suburbs.

 

That said, the current makeup of the cavalry squadrons is a holdover from the earlier active brigade recon companies equipped with Piranhas for commonality with the infantry battalions. Now that I have tanks in the brigades, I'm thinking of making the cavalry all-tracked again. I've thought of the CVR(T) series, but the NM135 looks interesting; I'm definitely not going back to the AIFV-25, but have this other very German urge to give every Ivan, Vlad and Yuri in support units light AA. The twin 35 mm would be a handful for that, while 20 x 139 mm is easy, so it would make sense to have the ammo in the system; the Navy is already using it after all.

 

Of course, I now find that after saving six companies' worth by disbanding the Cavalry Regiment, I have added six again through the brigade cavalry squadrons. Well, it was to be expected somehow. You guys win, I'll bring the regiment back. Which reopens the question of the recon companies, now again wheeled. Maybe the V-150? I could also use that for security units, including the Guards Regiment. And I need to save in some other place; looking at the Air Defense Brigade again.

 

There are scout and pioneer platoons in the infantry HSS companies BTW, which is why they are so large. I need to post a more detailled breakdown of the battalion sometime.

[Simon Tan]

This is Russia (Alaska) ...when winter comes, there are no roads without ploughs and salt. Sometimes no roads full stop. As your countrymen learned, winter is an unforgiving teacher. Either have tracks or be cheap and have trucks.

 

Ahhh...you are thinking like a German. The Regiment is a Bn sized element per the British and not a Regimenter. Being Russian, the Squadrons could well be weak..

 

I am assuming Russia sided with the Allies during WWII....in a bizzaro situation of finding themsleves fighting on the same side as the Reds after sending volunteers to fight them in Spain and Finland.

 

Semyon

[Kentucky-roughrider]

The advantage of going with another M113 based vechile would be shared parts so a vechile like the M113 ACAV of the Vietman fame might be a option for recon units, btw I agree with you on the idea of using the NM135 instead of the AIFV, designed for similar conditions than you would find in Alaska.

 

The idea about arming your supply units with AAA might be a good idea as well. supply conways are one of those spots where and air attack is most effect plus if there is an paratroop/ cammando attack those AAA can be very effect of countering an ambush there as well. Is there a AAA model that can be switched from a tracked vechile to wheeled on as needed, with little work?

 

Due to the weather in Alaska, I would put allot of strength in the AAA cause your aircraft might not be able to take off, but you never know if the other side will be havig the same problem.

Edited September 7, 2012 by Kentucky-roughrider

[GPMG]

I think it's far more likely that Alaska would have become a Russian Taiwan. I agree with the thekirk though that the ramifications involved in Alaska not being sold to the US may have been far-reaching. Was there a possibility of it being sold to Britain as T19 wrote?

 

Russki not happy with Brits over Crimea.....No way Jose !

The Russians approched both USA and Britian offering to sell Alaska hoping to start a bidding war, but Britian was not intrested.

[BansheeOne]

This is Russia (Alaska) ...when winter comes, there are no roads without ploughs and salt. Sometimes no roads full stop. As your countrymen learned, winter is an unforgiving teacher. Either have tracks or be cheap and have trucks.

 

The reserve brigades are truckborne. If the Soviets attack in winter - and this pretty much limits their landings on the mainland to the Southern shore due to ice conditions - again, their BMPs get stuck as much as my Piranhas while the Alaskan cavalry meets their tracked columns, the Coastal Rangers move along the coastline to cut them off, and the infantry is airlifted into their flanks (weather conditions permitting - but then, this scenario presumes that the Air Force and Navy along with their pals from Canada and the US have failed to sink the invaders at sea).

 

Obviously, what they want to take and I want to protect are population centers, including government institutions, military bases, industry and traffic infrastructure, and the outlying targets like the oil and gas fields in the North and the Trans-Alaskan Pipeline leading there. If they land in the Aleutians, both sides are in for long and miserable fights about inhospitable islands at the end of long supply lines (in fact my preferred strategy there would be to starve them out by sinking and shooting down any Soviet transports while destroying the installations at Shemya to deny their use for air operations against the mainland), but the real prizes are farther West.

 

My most immediate concern is the Stoyanka Oblast which houses about 40 percent of my population with the respective industry and services, as well as most of what there is of agriculture, due to the comparably open terrain. Objectives for both sides will be control of the lines of communication following said terrain - South along National Road 1 by the coast to Kachemak Bay, West along the same road into Canada, and North along NR 3 to Krasiviyebyeryeg and NR 2, the gateway to the Arctic. If a landing cannot be prevented, the aim of the Army is to counterattack in the open areas East and South of Stoyanka under a hopefully friendly sky.

 

I expect air landings to secure high-value targets by surprise, which is why I have active brigades both in the Stoyanka and Krasiviyebyeryega area. The other more-or-less civilized areas are Kodiak Island, which sits in the way of any amphibious thrust towards Stoyanka, and the panhandle with the capital of Junograd in the West. Both are only accessible by sea and air, and the panhandle is way out East, so they have only reserve brigades; but Kodiak houses the Coastal Rangers and Artillery besides the Naval Air Station, and Junograd has the Guards Regiment.

 

Now I guess the Soviets could land on the West Coast in the Summer and start trekking at least 600 kilometers through the wilderness towards Krasiviyebyeryeg. In this case the Arctic and Airborne Rangers will commence harrassing actions; the primary line of communication in this area is the Yukon River, and I intend to give my engineers ample riverine transport capabilities (possibly including hovercraft) so I can deploy some brigades and maybe the Armored Cavalry West, with other troops manning prepared positions along the Alaska Range as a defensive line to fall back on.

 

Worst case is the dreaded multi-prong attack, where they do all of the above simultaneously. Obviously, if the Soviets manage to keep pumping troops in-country, they will eventually swamp me. But then we're talking WW III here, and the US and Canada will come to play too, and odds are before long somebody will kick over buckets of sunshine. In which case remote places in Alaska may be among the best to be.

[Simon Tan]

Is Russia part of NATO?

[Stargrunt6]

Until this weekend actually. Which is a fortunate coincidence, because I'm approaching burnout on this topic; it's a wonder I'm not crunching personnel numbers in my sleep yet.

 

Watching you go on this thread has been awe-inspiring. Seriously.

[BansheeOne]

Is Russia part of NATO?

 

Alaska is. Read the full thread.

 

I guess it's time to go down into the weeds. I'm not going to do every last unit TO&E, just enough for a more precise feeling on personnel numbers.

 

 

Infantry Battalion (42/138//792//972)

 

- HSS Company (19/41/148//208)

-- HQ Squad (2 x Piranha CPV for active units, Volvo L4140 for reserves, 1 x jeep; 2/2/6//10)

-- QM Squad (2 x Volvo L4140, 1 x jeep; 0/2/8//10)

-- Battalion HQ Platoon (4 x Piranha CPV for active units, Volvo L4140 for reserves, 6 x jeep, 6 x motorbike; 12/12/24//36)

-- Scout Sniper Platoon (13 x jeep, 1/9/31//41)

-- Engineer Platoon (4 x Piranha APC for active units, Volvo L4140 for reserves; 1/5/38//44)

-- Medical Platoon (4 x Piranha ambulance for active units, Volvo L4140 for reserves; 2/6/13//21)

-- Logistics Platoon (8 x Volvo L4140, 4 x SBAT 111; 1/5/18//24)

 

- 3 x Infantry Company, each 6/24/166//196:

-- HQ Squad (2 x Piranha CPV for active units, Volvo L4140 for reserves, 1 x jeep; 2/2/6//10)

-- QM Squad (2 x Volvo L4140, 1 x jeep; 0/2/8//10)

-- 3 x Infantry Platoon (4 x Piranha APC for active units, Volvo L4140 for reserves; 1/5/38//44)

-- Weapons Platoon (2 x Pirana for active units, Volvo L4140 for reserves, 4 x Milan, 4 x 60 mm M224 mortar; 1/5/38/44)

 

- Weapons Company (5/25/146//176)

-- HQ Squad (2 x Piranha CPV for active units, Volvo L4140 for reserves, 1 x jeep; 2/2/6//10)

-- QM Squad (2 x Volvo L4140, 1 x jeep; 0/2/8//10)

-- Anti-Tank Platoon (6 x Piranha w/ TOW for active units, Volvo L4140 for reserves; 1/7/44//52)

-- Mortar Platoon (6 x Piranha w/ 81 mm L6 mortar for active units, Volvo L4140 for reserves; 1/7/44//52)

-- Cannon Platoon (6 x Piranha w/ 20 mm Oerlikon KAD for active units, Volvo L4140 for reserves; 1/7/44//52)

Edited September 8, 2012 by BansheeOne

[BansheeOne]

Armored Cavalry Squadron (43/126//613//782)

 

- HSS Troop (19/37/133//189)

-- HQ Section (1 x Leopard 1A3 for active units, M48A5 for reserves, 2 x M113A1 w/ 20 mm Oerlikon KAD; 2/2/8//12)

-- QM Section (1 x Volvo L4140, 1 x SBAT 111, 1 x jeep; 0/2/8//10)

-- Battalion HQ Platoon (4 x M577 CPV, 6 x jeep, 6 x motorbike; 12/12/24//36)

-- Engineer Platoon (4 x M113A1 APC; 1/5/38//44)

-- Medical Platoon (4 x M113A1 ambulance; 2/6/13//21)

-- Maintenance Platoon (2 x Bergepanzer 2 for active units, M88 for reserves, 6 x Volvo L4140, 2 x SBAT 111, 2 x jeep; 1/5/18//24)

-- Logistics Platoon (4 x Volvo L4140, 8 x SBAT 111; 1/5/18//24)

 

- 3 x Cavalry Troop, each 6/22/124//152:

-- HQ Section (1 x Leopard 1A3, 2 x M113A1 w/ 20 mm Oerlikon KAD; 2/2/8//12)

-- QM Section (1 x Volvo L4140, 1 x SBAT 111, 1 x jeep; 0/2/8//10)

-- Mortar Section (2 x M125A1 w/ 81 mm L6 mortar; 0/2/12//14)

-- 2 x Tank Platoon (4 x Leopard 1A3 for active units, M48A5 for reserves; 1/3/12//16)

-- 2 x Scout Platoon (6 x M113A1 w/ 20 mm Oerlikon KAD + Milan; 1/5/36//42)

 

- Artillery Battery (6/23/108//137)

-- HQ Section (2 x M577 CPV, 1 x jeep; 2/2/6//10)

-- QM Section (1 x Volvo L4140, 1 x SBAT 111, 1 x jeep; 0/2/8//10)

-- FC Section (3 x M113A1 FCV, 0/3/12//15)

-- 2 x Howitzer Platoon (4 x M109A3; 1/3/20//24)

-- Anti-Air Platoon (4 x Gepard, 2 x Volvo L4110, 4 x Redeye; 1/5/18//24)

-- Logistics Platoon (4 x Volvo L4140, 8 x SBAT 111; 1/5/18//24)

Edited September 8, 2012 by BansheeOne

[BansheeOne]

Field Artillery Battalion (42/161/555//758)

 

- HSS Battery (19/45/133//197)

-- HQ Section (1 x Volvo L4140, 2 x jeep; 2/2/6//10)

-- QM Section (1 x Volvo L4140, 1 x SBAT 111, 1 x jeep; 0/2/8//10)

-- Battalion HQ Platoon (4 x Volvo L4140, 6 x jeep, 6 x motorbike; 12/12/24//36)

-- Observation Platoon (13 x jeep; 1/13/26//40)

-- Engineer Platoon (4 x Volvo L4140; 1/5/38//44)

-- Medical Platoon (4 x Volvo L4140; 2/6/13//21)

-- Logistics Platoon (4 x Volvo L4140, 8 x SBAT 111; 1/5/18//24)

 

- 3 x Artillery Battery (6/32/118//156)

-- HQ Section (1 x Volvo L4140, 2 x jeep; 2/2/6//10)

-- QM Section (1 x Volvo L4140, 1 x SBAT 111, 1 x jeep; 0/2/8//10)

-- FC Section (3 x Volvo L4140, 0/3/12//15)

-- 2 x Gun Platoon (4 x L118 for active units, M102 for reserves, 4 x Volvo L4140; 1/5/30//36)

-- Anti-Air Platoon (4 x 20 mm Oerlikon GAI-CO1, 4 x Volvo L4140; 1/5/14//20)

-- Logistics Platoon (8 x Volvo L4140, 4 x SBAT 111; 1/5/18//24)

 

- Anti-Air Battery (5/20/68//93)

-- HQ Section (1 x Volvo L4140, 2 x jeep; 2/2/6//10)

-- QM Section (1 x Volvo L4140, 1 x SBAT 111, 1 x jeep; 0/2/8//10)

-- FC Section (1 x Super Fledermaus radar, 1 x Volvo L4140, 1 x jeep; 0/1/8//9)

-- 2 x Anti-Air Platoon (4 x twin 35 mm Oerlikon GDF-001, 4 x Volvo L4140; 1/5/14//20)

-- Logistics Platoon (8 x Volvo L4140, 4 x SBAT 111; 1/5/18//24)

Edited September 8, 2012 by BansheeOne

[BansheeOne]

Coastal Artillery Battalion (42/161/555//758)

 

- HSS Battery (19/45/133//197)

-- HQ Section (1 x Volvo L4140, 2 x jeep; 2/2/6//10)

-- QM Section (1 x Volvo L4140, 1 x SBAT 111, 1 x jeep; 0/2/8//10)

-- Battalion HQ Platoon (4 x Volvo L4140, 6 x jeep, 6 x motorbike; 12/12/24//36)

-- Observation Platoon (13 x jeep; 1/13/26//40)

-- Engineer Platoon (4 x Volvo L4140; 1/5/38//44)

-- Medical Platoon (4 x Volvo L4140; 2/6/13//21)

-- Logistics Platoon (4 x Volvo L4140, 8 x SBAT 111; 1/5/18//24)

 

- 3 x Artillery Battery (6/32/118//156)

-- HQ Section (1 x Volvo L4140, 2 x jeep; 2/2/6//10)

-- QM Section (1 x Volvo L4140, 1 x SBAT 111, 1 x jeep; 0/2/8//10)

-- FC Section (3 x Volvo L4140, 0/3/12//15)

-- 2 x Gun Platoon (4 x FH-70, 4 x SBAT 111; 1/5/30//36)

-- Anti-Air Platoon (4 x 20 mm Oerlikon GAI-CO1, 4 x Volvo L4140; 1/5/14//20)

-- Logistics Platoon (8 x Volvo L4140, 4 x SBAT 111; 1/5/18//24)

 

- Anti-Air Battery (5/20/68//93)

-- HQ Section (1 x Volvo L4140, 2 x jeep; 2/2/6//10)

-- QM Section (1 x Volvo L4140, 1 x SBAT 111, 1 x jeep; 0/2/8//10)

-- FC Section (1 x Super Fledermaus radar, 1 x Volvo L4140, 1 x jeep; 0/1/8//9)

-- 2 x Anti-Air Platoon (4 x twin 35 mm Oerlikon GDF-001, 4 x Volvo L4140; 1/5/14//20)

-- Logistics Platoon (4 x Volvo L4140, 8 x SBAT 111; 1/5/18//24)

Edited September 8, 2012 by BansheeOne

[Simon Tan]

Surely you meant GAI-D01. Why are they bothering with a L118 for the towed arty Bns when the Cav has M109s? I sense.....panzer bias.....*squinty eyes*

 

That and the weaker AA Bty without Stinger.

 

This is a very sensible and not particualrly whacky TOE.

[BansheeOne]

Heavy Artillery Battalion (43/184/666//893)

 

- HSS Battery (20/50/151//221)

-- HQ Section (2 x M577 CPV, 1 x jeep; 2/2/6//10)

-- QM Section (1 x Volvo L4140, 1 x SBAT 111, 1 x jeep; 0/2/8//10)

-- Battalion HQ Platoon (4 x M577 CPV, 6 x jeep, 6 x motorbike; 12/12/24//36)

-- Observation Platoon (13 x jeep; 1/13/26//40)

-- Engineer Platoon (4 x M113A1 APC; 1/5/38//44)

-- Medical Platoon (4 x M113A1 ambulance; 2/6/13//21)

-- Maintenance Platoon (2 x M88, 6 x Volvo L4140, 2 x SBAT 111, 2 x jeep; 1/5/18//24)

-- Logistics Platoon (4 x Volvo L4140, 8 x SBAT 111; 1/5/18//24)

 

- 3 x Artillery Battery (6/38/149//193)

-- HQ Section (2 x M577 CPV, 1 x jeep; 2/2/6//10)

-- QM Section (1 x Volvo L4140, 1 x SBAT 111, 1 x jeep; 0/2/8//10)

-- FC Section (3 x M113A1 FCV, 0/3/12//15)

-- 2 x Gun Platoon (4 x M107, 4 x M548; 1/7/44//52)

-- Escort Platoon (4 x M113A1 w/ 20 mm Oerlikon KAD; 1/5/23//29)

-- Logistics Platoon (4 x Volvo L4140, 8 x SBAT 111; 1/5/18//24)

 

- Anti-Air Battery (5/20/68//93)

-- HQ Section (1 x Volvo L4140, 2 x jeep; 2/2/6//10)

-- QM Section (1 x Volvo L4140, 1 x SBAT 111, 1 x jeep; 0/2/8//10)

-- FC Section (1 x Super Fledermaus radar, 1 x Volvo L4140, 1 x jeep; 0/1/8//9)

-- 2 x Anti-Air Platoon (4 x twin 35 mm Oerlikon GDF-001, 4 x Volvo L4140; 1/5/14//20)

-- Logistics Platoon (4 x Volvo L4140, 8 x SBAT 111; 1/5/18//24)

[BansheeOne]

Surely you meant GAI-D01. Why are they bothering with a L118 for the towed arty Bns when the Cav has M109s? I sense.....panzer bias.....*squinty eyes*

 

That and the weaker AA Bty without Stinger.

 

Yes, I went for the GAI-DO1 twin first, then saw it becomes only available in 1978, and I'm trying to pinpoint 1980; so I went back to the older CO4, but forgot to delete the twin reference. Now corrected.

 

The Stingers in the cavalry AA platoons (now changed to Redeyes for the same reasons as above) are another German inheritance; the Gepards of the Bundeswehr had multiple crews to ensure 24 hours readiness, but the off-duty crews would travel with the battery in Unimogs and deploy MANPADS if necessary.

 

The infantry brigades have light 105 mm guns because they might need to be heli-lifted. The cavalry has M109 to travel with the squadrons. I looked at the M113 C&R/Lynx as a scout track, but wanted at least some dismount capability in the troops, so returned to the Plain Jane M113A1, somewhat winterized and with 20 mm turret. I think I can use the Lynx as an artillery observer though.

 

 

Artillery Observation Battalion (43/137/605//775)

 

- HSS Battery (19/37/121//177)

-- HQ Section (1 x Volvo L4140, 2 x jeep; 2/2/6//10)

-- QM Section (1 x Volvo L4140, 1 x SBAT 111, 1 x jeep; 0/2/8//10)

-- Battalion HQ Platoon (4 x Volvo L4140, 6 x jeep, 6 x motorbike; 12/12/24//36)

-- Anti-Air Platoon (4 x 20 mm Oerlikon GAI-CO1, 4 x Volvo L4140; 1/5/14//20)

-- Engineer Platoon (4 x Volvo L4140; 1/5/38//44)

-- Medical Platoon (4 x Volvo L4140; 2/6/13//21)

-- Logistics Platoon (4 x Volvo L4140, 8 x SBAT 111; 1/5/18//24)

 

- 4 x Observation Battery (6/25/121//152)

-- HQ Section (1 x Volvo L4140, 2 x jeep; 2/2/6//10)

-- QM Section (1 x Volvo L4140, 1 x SBAT 111, 1 x jeep; 0/2/8//10)

-- Observation Platoon (8 x M113A1, 1/7/16//24)

-- ELINT Platoon (2 x M113A1 w/ artillery radar, 2 x M1025; 1/5/27//33)

-- UAV Platoon (1 x CL-89, 2 x Volvo L4140, 2 x SBAT 111; 1/4/31//36)

-- Weather Platoon (2 x Volvo L4140, 2 x SBAT 111; 1/5/26//33)

Edited September 8, 2012 by BansheeOne

[BansheeOne]

Air Defense Battalion (47/185/505//737)

 

- HSS Battery (19/37/121//177)

-- HQ Section (1 x Volvo L4140, 2 x jeep; 2/2/6//10)

-- QM Section (1 x Volvo L4140, 1 x SBAT 111, 1 x jeep; 0/2/8//10)

-- Battalion HQ Platoon (4 x Volvo L4140, 6 x jeep, 6 x motorbike; 12/12/24//36)

-- Anti-Air Platoon (4 x 20 mm Oerlikon GAI-CO1, 4 x Volvo L4140; 1/5/14//20)

-- Engineer Platoon (4 x Volvo L4140; 1/5/38//44)

-- Medical Platoon (4 x Volvo L4140; 2/6/13//21)

-- Logistics Platoon (4 x Volvo L4140, 8 x SBAT 111; 1/5/18//24)

 

- 4 x Missile Battery (7/37/96//140)

-- HQ Section (2 x M577 CPV, 1 x jeep; 2/2/6//10)

-- QM Section (1 x Volvo L4140, 1 x SBAT 111, 1 x jeep; 0/2/8//10)

-- 4 x Missile Platoon (2 x Rapier w/ Blindfire radar, 5 x Volvo L4140; 1/7/16//24)

-- Logistics Platoon (8 x Volvo L4140, 4 x SBAT 111; 1/5/18//24)

Edited September 8, 2012 by BansheeOne

[Simon Tan]

No Lynx. They just bottom out in snow.

 

Are the Coastal Arty Bns special purpose or do they also get used for general support?

They are lacking a over the water surveillance and targeting capability.

 

You do not need an artillery obs bn. Your orgs are very staff and top heavy......